9 ms·

Is it fair to say that once you achieve "FU money", numbers start to lose their value? I can't imagine being able to say "no" to something like that. Although l

Is it fair to say that once you achieve "FU money", numbers start to lose their value? I can't imagine being able to say "no" to something like that. Although likely for something like Minecraft, it'd be stock options/cash mix.

x0x0 12y ago
Adding a zero (or two) to your personal net worth may still change minds about many things.
drzaiusapelord 12y ago
Maybe Notch's perspective is that Minecraft as an IP is worth more than that. He can probably ride it out for the next couple decades with sequels or other monetization techniques. Why take the big payment today when you can have the bigger payment on-going? Especially if you want to continue to make it your life's work. Look at some gaming stars from the past. John Romero didn't "make us his bitch" with his post iD offerings. Carmack's career seemed pretty down until his recent excitement with Oculus and even that happened while he was playing with space companies on the side. Even with all his brains and cred, he's now just a Facebook employee and his boss is a 20-something php coder. A lot of gaming luminaries are often one-trick ponies. Its difficult to get lightning to strike twice. Smart money is keeping a tight hold of the IP that made you successful. Notch has seen what happens when you lose your IP and maybe he doesn't like it.
- Chinjut 12y ago
  It seems to me that the one-trick pony nature of the gaming business is more reason to take a big payout upfront. $2bn is fuck you money for the rest of your life. Who knows if the Minecraft IP will even be worth anything a few years from now?
  - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
    41 year old you might regret 31 year old you taking you out of the game. A lot of the type-A people who dominate the coding and business worlds might not be happy with just one big paycheck while they watch their peers continue on. I can't imagine Bill Gates selling MS in '86. He wanted to build an empire.
    - ido 12y ago
      My familiarity with notch is only superficial: we met in person 3 times, once before MC got big, once when it was starting to get big, and once after it was already big. Before that we used to hang out in the same game dev irc/forum circles and chatted on occasion there. I won't pretend that makes me really know him as a person but I can say I've never got the impression he cares much about empire and/or massive ego building. I would venture a guess that by now he accepted the fact that MC was his one massive strike and that he likely won't have another one & would be content to live his life of luxury with that.
      - Rapzid 12y ago
        He's made public comments to that effect as well, just not quite as bluntly.. But close.
      - kawsper 12y ago
        I think Notch just want to have fun, and build fun stuff. I don't think he wants to build an empire, but he wants the freedom to do his own thing, with people that he cares about (the mojangstas).
  - otakucode 12y ago
    And who knows if Minecraft will grow in complexity and interconnection to the point where instead of having websites, every company has a Minecraft world? Who knows if Minecraft won't become the online world from Snow Crash? In my own personal case though, the second I had anything worth $2 million I would sell out and retire. I just want to be able to feed myself and shelter myself and I'll gladly do independent research the rest of my life.
    - lotharbot 12y ago
      MineCraft has sold over 50 million copies at $7 (pocket edition) to $27 (PC edition) each, plus merchandise. Even after expenses, I'm pretty sure Notch's personal cut is in the nine-figure range. Easily enough to be independent for the rest of his life. (I'm with you on "sell out at $2 million" in general, though. For the area I want to live in, which I coincidentally already live in, that'll last a lifetime.)
  - guelo 12y ago
    Not when you have a hit as big as Minecraft. Kids growing up with Minecraft today will still be playing it nostalgically 30-40 years from now.
    - watwut 12y ago
      Yes, but Minecraft is not a lego - you do not need to buy newer sets. You buy it once and you own infinity of it. The only reason to buy another Minecraft is when new incompatible hardware becomes the norm.
      - exDM69 12y ago
        > Yes, but Minecraft is not a lego - you do not need to buy newer sets. Minecraft the game does not generate a continuous income after the initial sales, but recently they started an official multiplayer server hosting service (called "Minecraft realms"). You can buy a private server for $10 per month. Given that Minecraft is played by a lot of kids whose parents whose parents or themselves do not know how to set up a server, I think this is a very viable monetization strategy, albeit launched a bit late. Of course, there have been 3rd party commercial hosting services for Minecraft for a long time, but again, it's not something kids and their parents go after. Hell, I know how to set up a server but I am considering hiring a Minecraft realm for the winter months, just because it is less hassle than setting up a server and the price is reasonable.
- pdkl95 12y ago
  It's probably very smart of Notch to retain what he can regarding the Minecraft IP. What a lot of people seem to miss is that Minecraft isn't only about the "official" game. It's a platform for development. More importantly, it's a platform that lets many people create things in 3D without having to bother with OpenGL/etc. If you think I'm talking about pixel art or other static things, or if you think I'm talking about mods, I suggest watching these, which are all stock minecraft only. * SimCity reimplemented in vanilla redstone & in-game command blocks * http://www.jigarbov.net/simburbia-map-release/ http://www.jigarbov.net/simburbia-map-release/ * FVDisco's Cake Defense, a wave-attack game with many features. (everything FVDisco has done is outstanding...) * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwxD3axvgt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwxD3axvgt4 * Razul, an older scripted rpg adventure game with command-block based quest system * http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/razul---skyrim-inspired-adventure-map/ http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/razul---skyrim-inspir... * Hypixel, a many-thousand player custom server that works with the stock client * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1BdSq8fMtY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1BdSq8fMtY -- The larger ideas that Minecraft is effectively a prototype for is basically the VR environments we've wished for over the last several decades. We achieved a lot of the 3D graphics capability (and are ok with sound, the few cases where the developer bothers), but interactivity is just as important for immersion. Not being able to interact with things that are not part of the "intended" experience can rip you right out of your suspension of disbelief. This interactivity is what Minecraft gets right, and we've barely scratched the surface. Minecraft : interactive 3D voxel games :: NCSA Mosaic : hypertext documents
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
georgemcbay 12y ago
I don't have any "FU money", but it seems very likely to me that once you have that sort of money, there are only a couple of reasons to run it up any further: 1) You have "Big Plans" that need funding (eg. Elon Musk) 2) Running up the numbers as a life gamification to "beat" your peers, or just because you can't stop chasing yourself, like one of those freak beast weightlifters that looks like a space monster but is addicted to "the gainz" (eg. Larry Elison, et al) There are only so many houses and planes and boats and experiences you can buy, practically speaking, and at a certain point all your grandkids' grandkids are easily taken care of (should you decide to reproduce, and assuming society stands and the dollar keeps its value, of course). Interestingly I'm pretty sure Bill Gates started in bucket #2 but moved to #1 at some point later in life, but I think most people stick in one or the other.
- bshimmin 12y ago
  Now I'm imagining Larry Ellison as a "freak beast weightlifter". Thanks.
  - rodgerd 12y ago
    Post-steroid Vince McMahon with a beard. HTH.
  - peterashford 12y ago
    I think I just threw up a little in my mouth
- berns 12y ago
  Helping others. There is no limit to that.
  - javert 12y ago
    I bet Bill Gates has a hard time finding enough qualified people to wisely manage the money he is giving away. For example, if he has someone in charge of spending money on medical research, don't you think there is a point (a few billion) where they just don't know what else to spend money on? I mean, there are only so many medical researchers in the whole world. Of course you can always just throw money away/at people, but it won't do any good. "Give a man a fish" vs. "teach a man to fish."
Guvante 12y ago
It is important to remember that PV calculations are pretty easy to do, and help bring the FU money back to reality. For instance if Minecraft sells 10,000 copies a day (as someone else said) that is $100m a year. Assuming other platforms add up to the same that is $200m a year. At an 8% interest rate that is worth $2.5 billion assuming it continues forever. It is worth $1.3 billion if it only happens for 10 years.
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  ... and in a month a new game comes out and minecrafters realise this is what minecraft should have been all along ...
  - shiftpgdn 12y ago
    A few dozen "this is what minecraft" should have been games have come out in the last few years. Nothing has the staying power of Minecraft.
    - deciplex 12y ago
      Eh, can you name one? There are several "Minecraft could have done this as well" games, I guess, but nothing really stands out as anything like a spiritual successor, or whatever. There's Terraria, but that's not quite the same either is it.
  - smackfu 12y ago
    Well, that certainly goes in the "potential risks" section, but it hasn't happened yet, and it's been five years.
- ThrustVectoring 12y ago
  8% interest on present cash is high. Anyhow, the easy rule of thumb for converting between income streams and present value is simply "multiply by 20". In rough numbers, it $1/year is worth $20.
  - 12y ago

x0x0 12y ago

Adding a zero (or two) to your personal net worth may still change minds about many things.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago

Maybe Notch's perspective is that Minecraft as an IP is worth more than that. He can probably ride it out for the next couple decades with sequels or other monetization techniques. Why take the big payment today when you can have the bigger payment on-going? Especially if you want to continue to make it your life's work. Look at some gaming stars from the past. John Romero didn't "make us his bitch" with his post iD offerings. Carmack's career seemed pretty down until his recent excitement with Oculus and even that happened while he was playing with space companies on the side. Even with all his brains and cred, he's now just a Facebook employee and his boss is a 20-something php coder. A lot of gaming luminaries are often one-trick ponies. Its difficult to get lightning to strike twice. Smart money is keeping a tight hold of the IP that made you successful. Notch has seen what happens when you lose your IP and maybe he doesn't like it.

Chinjut 12y ago
It seems to me that the one-trick pony nature of the gaming business is more reason to take a big payout upfront. $2bn is fuck you money for the rest of your life. Who knows if the Minecraft IP will even be worth anything a few years from now?
- drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  41 year old you might regret 31 year old you taking you out of the game. A lot of the type-A people who dominate the coding and business worlds might not be happy with just one big paycheck while they watch their peers continue on. I can't imagine Bill Gates selling MS in '86. He wanted to build an empire.
  - ido 12y ago
    My familiarity with notch is only superficial: we met in person 3 times, once before MC got big, once when it was starting to get big, and once after it was already big. Before that we used to hang out in the same game dev irc/forum circles and chatted on occasion there. I won't pretend that makes me really know him as a person but I can say I've never got the impression he cares much about empire and/or massive ego building. I would venture a guess that by now he accepted the fact that MC was his one massive strike and that he likely won't have another one & would be content to live his life of luxury with that.
    - Rapzid 12y ago
      He's made public comments to that effect as well, just not quite as bluntly.. But close.
    - kawsper 12y ago
      I think Notch just want to have fun, and build fun stuff. I don't think he wants to build an empire, but he wants the freedom to do his own thing, with people that he cares about (the mojangstas).
- otakucode 12y ago
  And who knows if Minecraft will grow in complexity and interconnection to the point where instead of having websites, every company has a Minecraft world? Who knows if Minecraft won't become the online world from Snow Crash? In my own personal case though, the second I had anything worth $2 million I would sell out and retire. I just want to be able to feed myself and shelter myself and I'll gladly do independent research the rest of my life.
  - lotharbot 12y ago
    MineCraft has sold over 50 million copies at $7 (pocket edition) to $27 (PC edition) each, plus merchandise. Even after expenses, I'm pretty sure Notch's personal cut is in the nine-figure range. Easily enough to be independent for the rest of his life. (I'm with you on "sell out at $2 million" in general, though. For the area I want to live in, which I coincidentally already live in, that'll last a lifetime.)
- guelo 12y ago
  Not when you have a hit as big as Minecraft. Kids growing up with Minecraft today will still be playing it nostalgically 30-40 years from now.
  - watwut 12y ago
    Yes, but Minecraft is not a lego - you do not need to buy newer sets. You buy it once and you own infinity of it. The only reason to buy another Minecraft is when new incompatible hardware becomes the norm.
    - exDM69 12y ago
      > Yes, but Minecraft is not a lego - you do not need to buy newer sets. Minecraft the game does not generate a continuous income after the initial sales, but recently they started an official multiplayer server hosting service (called "Minecraft realms"). You can buy a private server for $10 per month. Given that Minecraft is played by a lot of kids whose parents whose parents or themselves do not know how to set up a server, I think this is a very viable monetization strategy, albeit launched a bit late. Of course, there have been 3rd party commercial hosting services for Minecraft for a long time, but again, it's not something kids and their parents go after. Hell, I know how to set up a server but I am considering hiring a Minecraft realm for the winter months, just because it is less hassle than setting up a server and the price is reasonable.
pdkl95 12y ago
It's probably very smart of Notch to retain what he can regarding the Minecraft IP. What a lot of people seem to miss is that Minecraft isn't only about the "official" game. It's a platform for development. More importantly, it's a platform that lets many people create things in 3D without having to bother with OpenGL/etc. If you think I'm talking about pixel art or other static things, or if you think I'm talking about mods, I suggest watching these, which are all stock minecraft only. * SimCity reimplemented in vanilla redstone & in-game command blocks * http://www.jigarbov.net/simburbia-map-release/ http://www.jigarbov.net/simburbia-map-release/ * FVDisco's Cake Defense, a wave-attack game with many features. (everything FVDisco has done is outstanding...) * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwxD3axvgt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwxD3axvgt4 * Razul, an older scripted rpg adventure game with command-block based quest system * http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/razul---skyrim-inspired-adventure-map/ http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/razul---skyrim-inspir... * Hypixel, a many-thousand player custom server that works with the stock client * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1BdSq8fMtY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1BdSq8fMtY -- The larger ideas that Minecraft is effectively a prototype for is basically the VR environments we've wished for over the last several decades. We achieved a lot of the 3D graphics capability (and are ok with sound, the few cases where the developer bothers), but interactivity is just as important for immersion. Not being able to interact with things that are not part of the "intended" experience can rip you right out of your suspension of disbelief. This interactivity is what Minecraft gets right, and we've barely scratched the surface. Minecraft : interactive 3D voxel games :: NCSA Mosaic : hypertext documents
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

georgemcbay 12y ago

I don't have any "FU money", but it seems very likely to me that once you have that sort of money, there are only a couple of reasons to run it up any further: 1) You have "Big Plans" that need funding (eg. Elon Musk) 2) Running up the numbers as a life gamification to "beat" your peers, or just because you can't stop chasing yourself, like one of those freak beast weightlifters that looks like a space monster but is addicted to "the gainz" (eg. Larry Elison, et al) There are only so many houses and planes and boats and experiences you can buy, practically speaking, and at a certain point all your grandkids' grandkids are easily taken care of (should you decide to reproduce, and assuming society stands and the dollar keeps its value, of course). Interestingly I'm pretty sure Bill Gates started in bucket #2 but moved to #1 at some point later in life, but I think most people stick in one or the other.

bshimmin 12y ago
Now I'm imagining Larry Ellison as a "freak beast weightlifter". Thanks.
- rodgerd 12y ago
  Post-steroid Vince McMahon with a beard. HTH.
- peterashford 12y ago
  I think I just threw up a little in my mouth
berns 12y ago
Helping others. There is no limit to that.
- javert 12y ago
  I bet Bill Gates has a hard time finding enough qualified people to wisely manage the money he is giving away. For example, if he has someone in charge of spending money on medical research, don't you think there is a point (a few billion) where they just don't know what else to spend money on? I mean, there are only so many medical researchers in the whole world. Of course you can always just throw money away/at people, but it won't do any good. "Give a man a fish" vs. "teach a man to fish."

Guvante 12y ago

It is important to remember that PV calculations are pretty easy to do, and help bring the FU money back to reality. For instance if Minecraft sells 10,000 copies a day (as someone else said) that is $100m a year. Assuming other platforms add up to the same that is $200m a year. At an 8% interest rate that is worth $2.5 billion assuming it continues forever. It is worth $1.3 billion if it only happens for 10 years.

pbhjpbhj 12y ago
... and in a month a new game comes out and minecrafters realise this is what minecraft should have been all along ...
- shiftpgdn 12y ago
  A few dozen "this is what minecraft" should have been games have come out in the last few years. Nothing has the staying power of Minecraft.
  - deciplex 12y ago
    Eh, can you name one? There are several "Minecraft could have done this as well" games, I guess, but nothing really stands out as anything like a spiritual successor, or whatever. There's Terraria, but that's not quite the same either is it.
- smackfu 12y ago
  Well, that certainly goes in the "potential risks" section, but it hasn't happened yet, and it's been five years.
ThrustVectoring 12y ago
8% interest on present cash is high. Anyhow, the easy rule of thumb for converting between income streams and present value is simply "multiply by 20". In rough numbers, it $1/year is worth $20.
- 12y ago