6 ms·

I am old enough to remember when the first Mac came out. There was a response to it very much like you see here (only it happened on BBSes because there wasn't

by MCRed 12y ago

I am old enough to remember when the first Mac came out. There was a response to it very much like you see here (only it happened on BBSes because there wasn't much of an "internet") then. It's been the same way for every major product- iMac was chastised for lacking a floppy drive, the iPod, iPhone and iPad were all poo-poohed. In every case someone has said "X is better!" And in every case so far that X has turned out to maybe have some particular features, or better stats for some particular stat, but not to be engineered to the level of the Apple product. Particularly with the android example- the only way they were able to compete was to change from a blackberry copy to an counterfeit iOS interface. Which they did very quickly. I haven't seen anything innovative from Google since 2001 (unless you count gmail as innovative, which I would so, that's the exception.) Android is still a terrible, clunky piece of junk, even with so many years to copy Apple. We'll see when the Apple watch is on the market - but really, Samsung and Googles watches so far have appeared to be basically copies of guesses of what apple was going to make (given that the Apple watch has been rumored so long) rather than genuinely well considered and innovative devices. Kinda the way HP put out a "slate" computer at Comdex the year the iPad was announced, Balmer something to go up on stage and brag about and "beat Apple to market with". I do really wish, if Google wants to compete with Apple, they did something innovative (Microsoft did with their Metro UI) or if not innovative, something really good. But it seems that in the way that Apple doesn't quite "get" web services, Google doesn't quite get operating systems. ---- Edit: Use android regularly, unfortunately. Google maps in JS was pretty innovative, but I think that's part of the Gmail invention- e.g.: web 2.0. I give google credit for inventing Web 2.0. Or at least pushing it forward quite a bit.

girvo 12y ago
For the most part, I agree with you... except Android L has me curious, as it seems Google finally does understand operating systems and have built a cohesive whole. Funnily enough, Android Wear plays into that, and despite being someone who uses Apple everything has me considering an Android phone and a Moto 360. It's certainly exciting times no matter where you sit though!
6thSigma 12y ago
When was the last time you used Android?
BugBrother 12y ago
I'd argue that doing Google Maps in JavaScript was innovative. At the time, it blew me away that JS was usable for so complex use cases.
kevincrane 12y ago
> Android is still a terrible, clunky piece of junk, even with so many years to copy Apple. Not in the last few years, not even close. Android is pretty amazing right now, I love it.
vacri 12y ago
In every case someone has said "X is better!" And in every case so far that X has turned out to maybe have some particular features, or better stats for some particular stat, but not to be engineered to the level of the Apple product. Apple has turned out some turkeys in its time, but people only seem to remember the highlights. I haven't seen anything innovative from Google since 2001 That's some powerfully strong blinders you've willingly put on there. And calling maps part of Gmail? Seriously?
wildfire 12y ago
I'm old enough to remember to spell, and remember when the first Mac came out. The response has always been the same; one segment pointing out problems, another pointing out how "visionary" the new thing is. If you are as old as you claim to be, and still fall foul of corporate machinations - then "sucks to be you". Next you'll tell us what your current corporate master told you to say. There a many things wrong with what you wrote; the most glaring is: "haven't seen anything innovative from Google since 2001". Later you go on to say, "unless you count gmail". 1. gmail wasn't released until 2004 2. the whole thing called "ads" wasn't available until 2001. 3. Android copied iOS. Which copied Windows. Which copied MacOS. Which copied GEM. Which copied x/PARC. Someone once said "good artists copy, great artists steal". 4. I guess you keep missing the news about Google's moonshot project (loom, wing, self-driving cars). If you feel condemmed to define yourself by the applications and services that a particular company makes available (be it Google or Microsoft, or Apple), please understand that you are a shill. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2013/08/on-geek-culture/ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2013/08/on-geek-culture/ Neither Superman, nor Google, nor Apple will save you. Save your energy.
- a_c_s 12y ago
  Counting Google's unreleased moonshot products as innovation seems like counting one's chickens before they hatch. It is easy to innovate in the abstract, much harder to fully realize a vision in the form of a product.
  - zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
    Innovation is innovation. Just because an innovation isn't a success in the market place doesn't mean it was not innovative.
    - nardi 12y ago
      Correction: > Just because an innovation is only a research project* To which I will have to vehemently disagree with you. Otherwise we'll have to start celebrating science fiction authors for their "innovation."
zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
So even when competitors come up with products that Apple hasn't created yet, these competitors are still copying Apple's ideas by guessing what Apple will be doing? You really need to step out of that distortion field for a little while.
72deluxe 12y ago
Very informative, thanks. It made me chuckle when you said that Metro UI was innovative - it really was. Unfortunately, for some of the use-cases they put forward, it isn't really suited or very good. I mean, on a Mac how many people use Launchpad?
- gurkendoktor 12y ago
  > I mean, on a Mac how many people use Launchpad? I do when I forget the name of an app. Pinching all five fingers together on a trackpad is super easy. But then again, I also use the Dashboard :)
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    Ah I see. I shouldn't assume that nobody uses it. I turned off the Dashboard shortcut and made my F keys work like F keys. I typically use Spotlight to launch anything, although there was a time when I used to use Ctrl-F3 to take focus to the Dock, and then open the Applications folder. I might start using Launchpad more. The transition is pretty!
72deluxe 12y ago
One thing that Google does really innovate in: releasing products to keep up with the competition (typically web-based), then letting them be unmaintained, fester, and then terminating them much to the chagrin of the users. That's innovative! Apple certainly doesn't do that! Hah! (I jest, I jest. GMail and Maps have been going for years, and are pretty great , although I don't like the new UI on maps - things pop up from all over the place and the UI elements are teeny weeny. But yes, I'm a happy Google/Android user thanks). EDIT: Hey! This was meant as a joke! Don't take it too seriously! Don't downvote me to oblivion! Please! Have mercy and compassion! EDIT: Again! It's a joke! It's a joke! Such downvoting enthusiasm.

by MCRed 12y ago

girvo 12y ago

For the most part, I agree with you... except Android L has me curious, as it seems Google finally does understand operating systems and have built a cohesive whole. Funnily enough, Android Wear plays into that, and despite being someone who uses Apple everything has me considering an Android phone and a Moto 360. It's certainly exciting times no matter where you sit though!

6thSigma 12y ago

When was the last time you used Android?

BugBrother 12y ago

I'd argue that doing Google Maps in JavaScript was innovative. At the time, it blew me away that JS was usable for so complex use cases.

kevincrane 12y ago

> Android is still a terrible, clunky piece of junk, even with so many years to copy Apple. Not in the last few years, not even close. Android is pretty amazing right now, I love it.

vacri 12y ago

In every case someone has said "X is better!" And in every case so far that X has turned out to maybe have some particular features, or better stats for some particular stat, but not to be engineered to the level of the Apple product. Apple has turned out some turkeys in its time, but people only seem to remember the highlights. I haven't seen anything innovative from Google since 2001 That's some powerfully strong blinders you've willingly put on there. And calling maps part of Gmail? Seriously?

wildfire 12y ago

I'm old enough to remember to spell, and remember when the first Mac came out. The response has always been the same; one segment pointing out problems, another pointing out how "visionary" the new thing is. If you are as old as you claim to be, and still fall foul of corporate machinations - then "sucks to be you". Next you'll tell us what your current corporate master told you to say. There a many things wrong with what you wrote; the most glaring is: "haven't seen anything innovative from Google since 2001". Later you go on to say, "unless you count gmail". 1. gmail wasn't released until 2004 2. the whole thing called "ads" wasn't available until 2001. 3. Android copied iOS. Which copied Windows. Which copied MacOS. Which copied GEM. Which copied x/PARC. Someone once said "good artists copy, great artists steal". 4. I guess you keep missing the news about Google's moonshot project (loom, wing, self-driving cars). If you feel condemmed to define yourself by the applications and services that a particular company makes available (be it Google or Microsoft, or Apple), please understand that you are a shill. https://www.jacobinmag.com/2013/08/on-geek-culture/ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2013/08/on-geek-culture/ Neither Superman, nor Google, nor Apple will save you. Save your energy.

a_c_s 12y ago
Counting Google's unreleased moonshot products as innovation seems like counting one's chickens before they hatch. It is easy to innovate in the abstract, much harder to fully realize a vision in the form of a product.
- zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
  Innovation is innovation. Just because an innovation isn't a success in the market place doesn't mean it was not innovative.
  - nardi 12y ago
    Correction: > Just because an innovation is only a research project* To which I will have to vehemently disagree with you. Otherwise we'll have to start celebrating science fiction authors for their "innovation."

zak_mc_kracken 12y ago

So even when competitors come up with products that Apple hasn't created yet, these competitors are still copying Apple's ideas by guessing what Apple will be doing? You really need to step out of that distortion field for a little while.

72deluxe 12y ago

Very informative, thanks. It made me chuckle when you said that Metro UI was innovative - it really was. Unfortunately, for some of the use-cases they put forward, it isn't really suited or very good. I mean, on a Mac how many people use Launchpad?

gurkendoktor 12y ago
> I mean, on a Mac how many people use Launchpad? I do when I forget the name of an app. Pinching all five fingers together on a trackpad is super easy. But then again, I also use the Dashboard :)
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  Ah I see. I shouldn't assume that nobody uses it. I turned off the Dashboard shortcut and made my F keys work like F keys. I typically use Spotlight to launch anything, although there was a time when I used to use Ctrl-F3 to take focus to the Dock, and then open the Applications folder. I might start using Launchpad more. The transition is pretty!

72deluxe 12y ago

One thing that Google does really innovate in: releasing products to keep up with the competition (typically web-based), then letting them be unmaintained, fester, and then terminating them much to the chagrin of the users. That's innovative! Apple certainly doesn't do that! Hah! (I jest, I jest. GMail and Maps have been going for years, and are pretty great , although I don't like the new UI on maps - things pop up from all over the place and the UI elements are teeny weeny. But yes, I'm a happy Google/Android user thanks). EDIT: Hey! This was meant as a joke! Don't take it too seriously! Don't downvote me to oblivion! Please! Have mercy and compassion! EDIT: Again! It's a joke! It's a joke! Such downvoting enthusiasm.