6 ms·

Rough. I know a handful of talented developers stuck at a large company because of visa issues. They are too afraid to look for a better job because of immigra

Rough. I know a handful of talented developers stuck at a large company because of visa issues. They are too afraid to look for a better job because of immigration.

lambdasquirrel 12y ago
The U.S. seems much like the late Roman Empire in this sense. Whereas the growth and expansion of the Roman Empire was fueled by its wars and conquests, which brought back slaves and material wealth, the American Empire's growth has been fueled by skimming off the top of the middle and upper classes wherever there's been socioeconomic troubles elsewhere. The U.S. can get away with policy inefficiencies like this because there's so many people who want to get in right now, and it actually works in favor of the Powers That Be, because they can get decent talent that's easy to "keep them in their place" because of said policy inefficiencies. That having been said, the U.S. doesn't going blowing stuff up in Europe to make this advantages happen. For a lot of people, it is a beacon of opportunity. It's not all blue skies and roses though.
- nolite 12y ago
  no, they just blow stuff up everywhere else in the world.. either literally, or politically..
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  The US has done its share of economic imperialism as well, just not through colonies-in-name.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >That having been said, the U.S. doesn't going blowing stuff up in Europe to make this advantages happen. No, just in the third and developing world. In Europe they just push and abuse diplomatically lesser states (up to the point to having supported or even established specific goverments and even dictatorships over the last 60 years) to get the trade agreements and diplomatic support they want.
billbrown 12y ago
Every time I encounter the way our immigration policies treat various co-workers of mine, I'm ashamed and scandalized. They are the last people to be a "drain on our economy" and they're effectively chained to their jobs, which seems so archaic.
- dllthomas 12y ago
  "they're effectively chained to their jobs, which seems so archaic." Not just archaic, but wrong. And even if we say "but they're choosing to be here, so it still must be better than what they came from" - which isn't entirely false, but ignores some things - it still means that the rest of us are competing with these extra-abusable workers which some companies might not mind paying a premium for on paper.
- owenmarshall 12y ago
  Reserve some blame for your company: the reason H-1B programs are so widely abused is because industry can't give up cheap labor.
  - zabraxias 12y ago
    That's an oversimplification since the valley is the leading proponent of immigration reform (yes since the companies there will get better access to foreign workers) but every other developed nation seems to have a more sensible policy like allowing "work status" and not tying it to a specific company. Green cards effectively do that but unless you're Bieber or can afford the $1M investment visa you don't get one on day 1.
    - syntern 12y ago
      Green card is not a work permit, it is a residency status. People focus on the work part, but with choosing the green card, one is choosing between the US and the rest of the world for a very long time. First of all, it requires you to reside in the US, permanently (hence the official name). You don't move home for longer periods (e.g. years), as getting back in the US is not automatic. I understand that the US sees entering in the US as privilege, but these people usually help the US economy, and not burden it, so there is that. Second, it really limits your options. Suppose you decide to go outside of the US in just a few years after the green card, giving it up, and suddenly, for the rest of your life, whenever you enter in the US, you need to tell you life's story to the immigration officer and why you have applied for immigration status and what happened with it. And if you have connections, properties or investments in Europe, you will be always in limbo whether the European bank will decline business with you based on your US tax status. Going for a green card is a no-brainer for everyone who is going for US citizenship. Everyone else, take a better look on it, before you go for it.
nilsimsa 12y ago
Where are they located?
- tomwilde 12y ago
  It seems like the author is a Briton. As a Swiss citizen I don't understand how anyone from a first-world country would like to move to the USA. It's a downgrade in every aspect. Giving up democracy, social-security, the practical absence of crime for a job in a country where every other Tuesday someone goes on a killing-spree, where people go to the doctor for moar Vicodine, where police will kill you for a donut. Nope. Edit: changed englishman to briton. Thank you, commenters.
  - Thrymr 12y ago
    > It seems like the author is an Englishman. A UK citizen, probably, but I'd not assume that a guy named "McDowell" from Belfast is English.
  - kareemm 12y ago
    As a Canadian who's lived in many parts of the world, including the US, it's the unbridled friendliness, optimism, hustle, and (generally speaking) caring only what you can do and not where you're from that made living in the US preferable to other countries. The downside, of course, being the trade-offs you mention.
  - carlob 12y ago
    > It seems like the author is an Englishman. Northern-Irish, so technically a Briton, but not an Englishman.
  - jwhitlark 12y ago
    I had a friend of mine who had emigrated from Iran to England, (obtaining English citizenship). After 6 years in England, he came to the US and eventually got citizenship here. I asked him the same question, "Why would someone move to the US from a first world country?" I found his response interesting: "Because in Europe, you stay where they put you."
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

Rough. I know a handful of talented developers stuck at a large company because of visa issues. They are too afraid to look for a better job because of immigration.

lambdasquirrel 12y ago

The U.S. seems much like the late Roman Empire in this sense. Whereas the growth and expansion of the Roman Empire was fueled by its wars and conquests, which brought back slaves and material wealth, the American Empire's growth has been fueled by skimming off the top of the middle and upper classes wherever there's been socioeconomic troubles elsewhere. The U.S. can get away with policy inefficiencies like this because there's so many people who want to get in right now, and it actually works in favor of the Powers That Be, because they can get decent talent that's easy to "keep them in their place" because of said policy inefficiencies. That having been said, the U.S. doesn't going blowing stuff up in Europe to make this advantages happen. For a lot of people, it is a beacon of opportunity. It's not all blue skies and roses though.

nolite 12y ago
no, they just blow stuff up everywhere else in the world.. either literally, or politically..
dredmorbius 12y ago
The US has done its share of economic imperialism as well, just not through colonies-in-name.
coldtea 12y ago
>That having been said, the U.S. doesn't going blowing stuff up in Europe to make this advantages happen. No, just in the third and developing world. In Europe they just push and abuse diplomatically lesser states (up to the point to having supported or even established specific goverments and even dictatorships over the last 60 years) to get the trade agreements and diplomatic support they want.

billbrown 12y ago

Every time I encounter the way our immigration policies treat various co-workers of mine, I'm ashamed and scandalized. They are the last people to be a "drain on our economy" and they're effectively chained to their jobs, which seems so archaic.

dllthomas 12y ago
"they're effectively chained to their jobs, which seems so archaic." Not just archaic, but wrong. And even if we say "but they're choosing to be here, so it still must be better than what they came from" - which isn't entirely false, but ignores some things - it still means that the rest of us are competing with these extra-abusable workers which some companies might not mind paying a premium for on paper.
owenmarshall 12y ago
Reserve some blame for your company: the reason H-1B programs are so widely abused is because industry can't give up cheap labor.
- zabraxias 12y ago
  That's an oversimplification since the valley is the leading proponent of immigration reform (yes since the companies there will get better access to foreign workers) but every other developed nation seems to have a more sensible policy like allowing "work status" and not tying it to a specific company. Green cards effectively do that but unless you're Bieber or can afford the $1M investment visa you don't get one on day 1.
  - syntern 12y ago
    Green card is not a work permit, it is a residency status. People focus on the work part, but with choosing the green card, one is choosing between the US and the rest of the world for a very long time. First of all, it requires you to reside in the US, permanently (hence the official name). You don't move home for longer periods (e.g. years), as getting back in the US is not automatic. I understand that the US sees entering in the US as privilege, but these people usually help the US economy, and not burden it, so there is that. Second, it really limits your options. Suppose you decide to go outside of the US in just a few years after the green card, giving it up, and suddenly, for the rest of your life, whenever you enter in the US, you need to tell you life's story to the immigration officer and why you have applied for immigration status and what happened with it. And if you have connections, properties or investments in Europe, you will be always in limbo whether the European bank will decline business with you based on your US tax status. Going for a green card is a no-brainer for everyone who is going for US citizenship. Everyone else, take a better look on it, before you go for it.

nilsimsa 12y ago

Where are they located?

tomwilde 12y ago
It seems like the author is a Briton. As a Swiss citizen I don't understand how anyone from a first-world country would like to move to the USA. It's a downgrade in every aspect. Giving up democracy, social-security, the practical absence of crime for a job in a country where every other Tuesday someone goes on a killing-spree, where people go to the doctor for moar Vicodine, where police will kill you for a donut. Nope. Edit: changed englishman to briton. Thank you, commenters.
- Thrymr 12y ago
  > It seems like the author is an Englishman. A UK citizen, probably, but I'd not assume that a guy named "McDowell" from Belfast is English.
- kareemm 12y ago
  As a Canadian who's lived in many parts of the world, including the US, it's the unbridled friendliness, optimism, hustle, and (generally speaking) caring only what you can do and not where you're from that made living in the US preferable to other countries. The downside, of course, being the trade-offs you mention.
- carlob 12y ago
  > It seems like the author is an Englishman. Northern-Irish, so technically a Briton, but not an Englishman.
- jwhitlark 12y ago
  I had a friend of mine who had emigrated from Iran to England, (obtaining English citizenship). After 6 years in England, he came to the US and eventually got citizenship here. I asked him the same question, "Why would someone move to the US from a first world country?" I found his response interesting: "Because in Europe, you stay where they put you."

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]