5 ms·

Microsoft's man in China defects to search powerhouse Baidu

37 points by ximeng 12y ago

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Wow, this is like when kaifu left Microsoft for google.
- ximeng 12y ago
  Not sure how much of an impact someone at that level leaving will have on the day-to-day operations and how the timing will work out. Any thoughts (in general terms)?
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    I don't know anything ( or I couldn't talk), but this should create some change relevant if you are a China-based softy, but otherwise not relevant. Also, I think no chairs will be thrown over this :)
eva1984 12y ago
Indeed. Nowadays, the new graduates are bragging themselves for joining the so called BAT(Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent) and other homegrown internet companies, and most of the time you do get better benefits and chances to make bigger impact. Other talents may just leave and come to US for work. Nevertheless, the good days for the foreign companies' division in China have come to an end. They can no longer easily grab the top talents without direct confrontation with the local giants. And they are restricted in decision making process for having to taking order from oversee headquarter, thus losing to the local companies in terms of faster response to the market.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  Also, the Chinese companies have it much easier since they are mostly just copying already "proven in the west" products, foreign companies obviously can't do that. For example, they could never do what xiaomi did.
  - eva1984 12y ago
    Not entirely. I did agree the point a lot of Chinese companies start with copying their western counterparts. But it is also not true to say that those formulas could succeed if stay unmodified. In fact, those successful Chinese copy-cats take very different approaches after forking the original one. Take WeChat for example, it is blatant copy of WhatsApp from the very beginning. Now, it has so much more functionalities to offer than WhatsApp: it has a private social network called Friend Circle; it has a gaming center; you can even make mobile payment through it. And arguably, WeChat has better UI that is more friendly to Chinese users, like better emoji support. The difference is so significant, it is fair enough to say they are on their own track, and I sincerely doubt if there is something more WeChat can copy from WhatsApp, if not vice versa. As to your question about Xiaomi, it is infamous even in mainland China for violation of copyrights and open source licenses. But again, it is not the most important thing that makes Xiaomi successful. The reason is simple: there are 100 or more companies out there, trying to make money by copying the western ideas. If copying the only thing Xiaomi did, it definitely cannot achieve what it has now. Actually, one key factor that leads Xiaomi to its current success is marketing: setting up online forums for cultivating its own fanbase; introducing flash sales with limited supplies in an effort to tantalize the consumers. I could go on with a lot more, but the point is, Xiaomi takes a grass-root approach to maximize its brand awareness, greatly leveraging the power of internet and social network, without paying huge amount of money to the traditional advertisers like what the western companies always do. In turn, it allows Xiaomi to offer phones with competitive specs at lower price. This idea has been back ported to US recently by OnePlus, and have been successful to some degree. To be honest, Chinese companies have a hell lot to improve. However, IMO, they deserve some praises of their own for accounting their success. Attributing everything for being copycats might seem easy and politically right, but it is oversimplified and preventing people from looking at the bigger picture.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      It wouldn't be so bad if it was just an appearance, but all of my friends who have tried working for local companies, startups or otherwise, have had similar experiences: Innovation is seen as too risky, less risky t just copy. Its a whole culture at this point, and I'm not sure when it will change. It can't go on like this forever.
- zhte415 12y ago
  > Nevertheless, the good days for the foreign companies' division in China have come to an end. They can no longer easily grab the top talents without direct confrontation with the local giants. In the Enterprise space, where a lot of development is done in China, the top universities are often avoided, and have been so for quite some time, and purposely so. The reason is staff attrition: People freshly versed in the company's systems and applications often leave when they realise they don't want to develop tiny incremental changes in JAVA, or merge a COBOL codebase, and this is the case for top talent. Recruitment for many big enterprise firms is purposefully targeted at mid to lower ranking universities.
frigg 12y ago
How long can Microsoft keep bing at float? I have several times compared the search results between bing and google and bing still has much more to grow. Is Microsoft running bing at a loss?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
illumen 12y ago
Elop.goWorkFor(Nokia) Microsoft.eat(Nokia)
jacquesm 12y ago
Why do they use a loaded word like 'defect'? Is the man somehow conscripted and should he be shot on sight for joining the enemy? Really, he should be free to change jobs at the level, just as it is ok for other high level people to change jobs without using such incredibly loaded language. A job change is never a defection.
- melling 12y ago
  Are you asking someone to explain why news organizations use "catchy" headlines? Perhaps you want to know why certain metaphors are used in business? Somehow, I think you already know the answer.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    That's not catchy. That's equating moving from one employer to another with betrayal. It paints the person moving in a supremely negative light, the kind of feeling you normally reserve for those that join the enemy during war time.
    - mkaziz 12y ago
      America vs China, is why. The East is the Enemy. :)
      - SeanLuke 12y ago
        It's true that the Kuok family, the current owners of the South China Morning Post, are somewhat pro-Beijing. But this isn't a chinese newspaper. It's an english-language Hong Kong newspaper, founded in 1903, with a strong tradition of british style journalism. I think that defect was used in exactly the same context as "so and so defected from Google to Microsoft".
    - ProAm 12y ago
      > That's not catchy. It's catchy enough that you are talking about it on a message board.
guardian5x 12y ago
Related: Chinese Search Giant Baidu Hires Man Behind the “Google Brain” http://www.technologyreview.com/news/527301/chinese-search-giant-baidu-hires-man-behind-the-google-brain/ http://www.technologyreview.com/news/527301/chinese-search-g...

37 points by ximeng 12y ago

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

Wow, this is like when kaifu left Microsoft for google.

ximeng 12y ago
Not sure how much of an impact someone at that level leaving will have on the day-to-day operations and how the timing will work out. Any thoughts (in general terms)?
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  I don't know anything ( or I couldn't talk), but this should create some change relevant if you are a China-based softy, but otherwise not relevant. Also, I think no chairs will be thrown over this :)

eva1984 12y ago

Indeed. Nowadays, the new graduates are bragging themselves for joining the so called BAT(Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent) and other homegrown internet companies, and most of the time you do get better benefits and chances to make bigger impact. Other talents may just leave and come to US for work. Nevertheless, the good days for the foreign companies' division in China have come to an end. They can no longer easily grab the top talents without direct confrontation with the local giants. And they are restricted in decision making process for having to taking order from oversee headquarter, thus losing to the local companies in terms of faster response to the market.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Also, the Chinese companies have it much easier since they are mostly just copying already "proven in the west" products, foreign companies obviously can't do that. For example, they could never do what xiaomi did.
- eva1984 12y ago
  Not entirely. I did agree the point a lot of Chinese companies start with copying their western counterparts. But it is also not true to say that those formulas could succeed if stay unmodified. In fact, those successful Chinese copy-cats take very different approaches after forking the original one. Take WeChat for example, it is blatant copy of WhatsApp from the very beginning. Now, it has so much more functionalities to offer than WhatsApp: it has a private social network called Friend Circle; it has a gaming center; you can even make mobile payment through it. And arguably, WeChat has better UI that is more friendly to Chinese users, like better emoji support. The difference is so significant, it is fair enough to say they are on their own track, and I sincerely doubt if there is something more WeChat can copy from WhatsApp, if not vice versa. As to your question about Xiaomi, it is infamous even in mainland China for violation of copyrights and open source licenses. But again, it is not the most important thing that makes Xiaomi successful. The reason is simple: there are 100 or more companies out there, trying to make money by copying the western ideas. If copying the only thing Xiaomi did, it definitely cannot achieve what it has now. Actually, one key factor that leads Xiaomi to its current success is marketing: setting up online forums for cultivating its own fanbase; introducing flash sales with limited supplies in an effort to tantalize the consumers. I could go on with a lot more, but the point is, Xiaomi takes a grass-root approach to maximize its brand awareness, greatly leveraging the power of internet and social network, without paying huge amount of money to the traditional advertisers like what the western companies always do. In turn, it allows Xiaomi to offer phones with competitive specs at lower price. This idea has been back ported to US recently by OnePlus, and have been successful to some degree. To be honest, Chinese companies have a hell lot to improve. However, IMO, they deserve some praises of their own for accounting their success. Attributing everything for being copycats might seem easy and politically right, but it is oversimplified and preventing people from looking at the bigger picture.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    It wouldn't be so bad if it was just an appearance, but all of my friends who have tried working for local companies, startups or otherwise, have had similar experiences: Innovation is seen as too risky, less risky t just copy. Its a whole culture at this point, and I'm not sure when it will change. It can't go on like this forever.
zhte415 12y ago
> Nevertheless, the good days for the foreign companies' division in China have come to an end. They can no longer easily grab the top talents without direct confrontation with the local giants. In the Enterprise space, where a lot of development is done in China, the top universities are often avoided, and have been so for quite some time, and purposely so. The reason is staff attrition: People freshly versed in the company's systems and applications often leave when they realise they don't want to develop tiny incremental changes in JAVA, or merge a COBOL codebase, and this is the case for top talent. Recruitment for many big enterprise firms is purposefully targeted at mid to lower ranking universities.

frigg 12y ago

How long can Microsoft keep bing at float? I have several times compared the search results between bing and google and bing still has much more to grow. Is Microsoft running bing at a loss?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

illumen 12y ago

Elop.goWorkFor(Nokia) Microsoft.eat(Nokia)

jacquesm 12y ago

Why do they use a loaded word like 'defect'? Is the man somehow conscripted and should he be shot on sight for joining the enemy? Really, he should be free to change jobs at the level, just as it is ok for other high level people to change jobs without using such incredibly loaded language. A job change is never a defection.

melling 12y ago
Are you asking someone to explain why news organizations use "catchy" headlines? Perhaps you want to know why certain metaphors are used in business? Somehow, I think you already know the answer.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  That's not catchy. That's equating moving from one employer to another with betrayal. It paints the person moving in a supremely negative light, the kind of feeling you normally reserve for those that join the enemy during war time.
  - mkaziz 12y ago
    America vs China, is why. The East is the Enemy. :)
    - SeanLuke 12y ago
      It's true that the Kuok family, the current owners of the South China Morning Post, are somewhat pro-Beijing. But this isn't a chinese newspaper. It's an english-language Hong Kong newspaper, founded in 1903, with a strong tradition of british style journalism. I think that defect was used in exactly the same context as "so and so defected from Google to Microsoft".
  - ProAm 12y ago
    > That's not catchy. It's catchy enough that you are talking about it on a message board.

guardian5x 12y ago

Related: Chinese Search Giant Baidu Hires Man Behind the “Google Brain” http://www.technologyreview.com/news/527301/chinese-search-giant-baidu-hires-man-behind-the-google-brain/ http://www.technologyreview.com/news/527301/chinese-search-g...