6 ms·

Google Delivers New Java-like Language, Noop

60 points by kasunh 17y ago

waldrews 17y ago
Wait it's by Google? I thought it was just hosted on Google code, as per this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=826945 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=826945
- Sachmic 17y ago
  It's made by googlers, but I don't think it's officially endorsed by Google.
  - plinkplonk 17y ago
    "It's made by googlers" Yes it is. One of the authors seems to be an "internal software development coach" (source: http://www.geekinasuit.com/2009/03/hiatus-should-be-over.html http://www.geekinasuit.com/2009/03/hiatus-should-be-over.htm...) at Google. The other author's blog seems to be down atm (http://jakeherringbone.com/ http://jakeherringbone.com/).
davidw 17y ago
I don't much care for the Bay Area, but I really wish I could have gone to the JVM Language Summit. Looks like a lot of fun.
- raffi 17y ago
  Me too. I'm so busy with my head down in the code that I forget about these things. I wrote Sleep several years ago and am not as active on it because it's stable for my needs.
  - plinkplonk 17y ago
    " I wrote Sleep several years ago and am not as active on it because it's stable for my needs." Too bad you couldn't make the JVM summit. I would have been interested in a session on the language powering "After the Deadline" than this piece of almost-vapourware.
    - raffi 17y ago
      Thanks, to better inform my judgment, any topics in particular you'd like to know about? I'm always looking for blog topics and I'll probably approach some local groups in DC to see if anyone is looking for a speaker.
      - plinkplonk 17y ago
        How Sleep made your coding go faster or enabled you to write expressive code as compared to coding in Java (with code samples drawn from ATD where possible :) - I like real world code comparisons vs toy examples)
rivo 17y ago
Can anyone point us to some code examples? I had a hard time finding any.
- gjm11 17y ago
  http://code.google.com/p/noop/source/browse/#hg/examples/noop http://code.google.com/p/noop/source/browse/#hg/examples/noo... but there's scarcely anything there. Which is all rather weird; I'd have thought that (1) one of the first things you do when designing a language is to mock up a load of example code to see how your ideas work together, and (2) you want to make that available to anyone looking at your language so that they can get a feel for what it's meant to be like. Oh well.
  - DanielStraight 17y ago
    Vaporlang?
    - sethg 17y ago
      That's my first impression--I see a bunch of pages on the project wiki with proposed features for the language, but no documentation along the lines of "if you actually want to use this language to accomplish something useful, here's what you do".
  - jherdman 17y ago
    Not only that but it looks incredibly underwhelming. It looks and smells so much like Java that you might as well use Java.
    - gjm11 17y ago
      I strongly suspect that something like this is the reason why there are few code samples. When do you not need to mock up lots of sample code when designing a language? When it's basically another pre-existing language with a few minor changes. (The pre-existing language in this case might not be Java, though I agree that that seems like a good guess.)
jjs 17y ago
That article is practically unreadable without Adblock.
- UpFromTheGut 17y ago
  Printer friendly: http://www.eweek.com/index2.php?option=content&task=view&id=56132&pop=1&hide_ads=1&page=0&hide_js=1 http://www.eweek.com/index2.php?option=content&task=view...
Tichy 17y ago
What do they mean by a language that supports dependency injection? What would be an example for a language that doesn't support it - stateless languages, I suppose? Because if there is no state, how to remember the dependencies? Edit: Just checked if it is April 1st, but nope, it isn't. They must be serious.
- ldh 17y ago
  I'm sure they mean that the language itself supports declaring and injecting dependencies rather than needing to use an external tool to do it.
babo 17y ago
It's written in Scala, 1500 LOC but failed to build either with buildr or with maven. Looks like a premature project.
chasingsparks 17y ago
A cursory look leads me to conclude that Noop has no primitive types. This results in Int (capital I) typed variables all over. While this follows the naming convention to which I adhere -- CamelCased classes -- there is still some cognitive dissonance. This might be a silly point, but I have not yet had coffee.
- johnm 17y ago
  Yes, they've said that everything is an object. But, the whole question of interop with Java is still in flux.
icey 17y ago
Every time I see a new programming language come out, I can't help but think of the Tower of Babel.
- jcw 17y ago
  Because we are trying to build a tower from the machine to the abstract?
  - Kaizyn 17y ago
    (Probably because there are now nearly too many languages to count.)
tetha 17y ago
I am confused. They say, this is made by google, and up to now, the google announcements I saw were very solid projects. Did I miss a lot of google announcements which are not solid projects? On the other hand, the state of this language looks... early? I am not sure. I don't see much code (yes, those 40 lines linked to on this page really show the new and innovative powers of this language), and I do see a lot of 'we propose this and we want that' (+ the usual language buzzwords), which feels much more like a language brainstorm, or maybe the state where the results of the brainstorming are settling down... but nowhere near a solid project... So, sorry to sound very unexcited, but at this point.. who cares about yet another language in a very, very early state?
- jimfl 17y ago
  "Did I miss a lot of google announcements which are not solid projects?" You mean like Wave?
sfphotoarts 17y ago
Does the world need another java-like language I wonder, even if its blessed by the google Gods?
johnm 17y ago
Article fail. It's not "delivered" -- it's a language in the process of being designed.
- andreyf 17y ago
  Dear lord, that article fails in too many ways to comprehend. Do yourselves a favor and jump straight to the goods: http://code.google.com/p/noop/ http://code.google.com/p/noop/
yarapavan 17y ago
Alex Eagle from Google presented Noop at the 2009 JVM summit. Slides at http://wiki.jvmlangsummit.com/Image:Noop_at_JVM_Summit.pdf http://wiki.jvmlangsummit.com/Image:Noop_at_JVM_Summit.pdf
al3x 17y ago
I was at the JVM Language Summit yesterday and went to the session by the developers of Noop. Indeed, it has not been "delivered" - though they have a working "Hello World", the syntax of the language has not yet been finalized, nor have they begun work on a compiler that emits JVM bytecode. The developers work at Google on their internal tools team, focusing particularly on unit testing. Hence, the inspiration for a language that's like Java but with Guice (Google's DI framework) and without the ability to shoot yourself in the foot in the ways that Java makes it particularly easy to. Noop is a 20% time project for the developers. So, there's a tacit endorsement by Google, but it's not as if Google has staffed up a full-time team to deliver a new language that will be used throughout their organization any time soon. The developers don't expect to get much adoption for Noop, and hope that it will mainly influence people's thinking and other tools.
- jakeherringbone 17y ago
  Thanks for clarifying, Alex!
boskone 17y ago
It appears to an effort, written in Scala, to be Scala but with Java syntax.

60 points by kasunh 17y ago

Wait it's by Google? I thought it was just hosted on Google code, as per this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=826945 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=826945

Sachmic 17y ago
It's made by googlers, but I don't think it's officially endorsed by Google.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  "It's made by googlers" Yes it is. One of the authors seems to be an "internal software development coach" (source: http://www.geekinasuit.com/2009/03/hiatus-should-be-over.html http://www.geekinasuit.com/2009/03/hiatus-should-be-over.htm...) at Google. The other author's blog seems to be down atm (http://jakeherringbone.com/ http://jakeherringbone.com/).

davidw 17y ago

I don't much care for the Bay Area, but I really wish I could have gone to the JVM Language Summit. Looks like a lot of fun.

raffi 17y ago
Me too. I'm so busy with my head down in the code that I forget about these things. I wrote Sleep several years ago and am not as active on it because it's stable for my needs.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  " I wrote Sleep several years ago and am not as active on it because it's stable for my needs." Too bad you couldn't make the JVM summit. I would have been interested in a session on the language powering "After the Deadline" than this piece of almost-vapourware.
  - raffi 17y ago
    Thanks, to better inform my judgment, any topics in particular you'd like to know about? I'm always looking for blog topics and I'll probably approach some local groups in DC to see if anyone is looking for a speaker.
    - plinkplonk 17y ago
      How Sleep made your coding go faster or enabled you to write expressive code as compared to coding in Java (with code samples drawn from ATD where possible :) - I like real world code comparisons vs toy examples)

rivo 17y ago

Can anyone point us to some code examples? I had a hard time finding any.

gjm11 17y ago
http://code.google.com/p/noop/source/browse/#hg/examples/noop http://code.google.com/p/noop/source/browse/#hg/examples/noo... but there's scarcely anything there. Which is all rather weird; I'd have thought that (1) one of the first things you do when designing a language is to mock up a load of example code to see how your ideas work together, and (2) you want to make that available to anyone looking at your language so that they can get a feel for what it's meant to be like. Oh well.
- DanielStraight 17y ago
  Vaporlang?
  - sethg 17y ago
    That's my first impression--I see a bunch of pages on the project wiki with proposed features for the language, but no documentation along the lines of "if you actually want to use this language to accomplish something useful, here's what you do".
- jherdman 17y ago
  Not only that but it looks incredibly underwhelming. It looks and smells so much like Java that you might as well use Java.
  - gjm11 17y ago
    I strongly suspect that something like this is the reason why there are few code samples. When do you not need to mock up lots of sample code when designing a language? When it's basically another pre-existing language with a few minor changes. (The pre-existing language in this case might not be Java, though I agree that that seems like a good guess.)

jjs 17y ago

That article is practically unreadable without Adblock.

UpFromTheGut 17y ago
Printer friendly: http://www.eweek.com/index2.php?option=content&task=view&id=56132&pop=1&hide_ads=1&page=0&hide_js=1 http://www.eweek.com/index2.php?option=content&task=view...

Tichy 17y ago

What do they mean by a language that supports dependency injection? What would be an example for a language that doesn't support it - stateless languages, I suppose? Because if there is no state, how to remember the dependencies? Edit: Just checked if it is April 1st, but nope, it isn't. They must be serious.

ldh 17y ago
I'm sure they mean that the language itself supports declaring and injecting dependencies rather than needing to use an external tool to do it.

babo 17y ago

It's written in Scala, 1500 LOC but failed to build either with buildr or with maven. Looks like a premature project.

chasingsparks 17y ago

A cursory look leads me to conclude that Noop has no primitive types. This results in Int (capital I) typed variables all over. While this follows the naming convention to which I adhere -- CamelCased classes -- there is still some cognitive dissonance. This might be a silly point, but I have not yet had coffee.

johnm 17y ago
Yes, they've said that everything is an object. But, the whole question of interop with Java is still in flux.

icey 17y ago

Every time I see a new programming language come out, I can't help but think of the Tower of Babel.

jcw 17y ago
Because we are trying to build a tower from the machine to the abstract?
- Kaizyn 17y ago
  (Probably because there are now nearly too many languages to count.)

tetha 17y ago

I am confused. They say, this is made by google, and up to now, the google announcements I saw were very solid projects. Did I miss a lot of google announcements which are not solid projects? On the other hand, the state of this language looks... early? I am not sure. I don't see much code (yes, those 40 lines linked to on this page really show the new and innovative powers of this language), and I do see a lot of 'we propose this and we want that' (+ the usual language buzzwords), which feels much more like a language brainstorm, or maybe the state where the results of the brainstorming are settling down... but nowhere near a solid project... So, sorry to sound very unexcited, but at this point.. who cares about yet another language in a very, very early state?

jimfl 17y ago
"Did I miss a lot of google announcements which are not solid projects?" You mean like Wave?

sfphotoarts 17y ago

Does the world need another java-like language I wonder, even if its blessed by the google Gods?

johnm 17y ago

Article fail. It's not "delivered" -- it's a language in the process of being designed.

andreyf 17y ago
Dear lord, that article fails in too many ways to comprehend. Do yourselves a favor and jump straight to the goods: http://code.google.com/p/noop/ http://code.google.com/p/noop/

yarapavan 17y ago

Alex Eagle from Google presented Noop at the 2009 JVM summit. Slides at http://wiki.jvmlangsummit.com/Image:Noop_at_JVM_Summit.pdf http://wiki.jvmlangsummit.com/Image:Noop_at_JVM_Summit.pdf

al3x 17y ago

I was at the JVM Language Summit yesterday and went to the session by the developers of Noop. Indeed, it has not been "delivered" - though they have a working "Hello World", the syntax of the language has not yet been finalized, nor have they begun work on a compiler that emits JVM bytecode. The developers work at Google on their internal tools team, focusing particularly on unit testing. Hence, the inspiration for a language that's like Java but with Guice (Google's DI framework) and without the ability to shoot yourself in the foot in the ways that Java makes it particularly easy to. Noop is a 20% time project for the developers. So, there's a tacit endorsement by Google, but it's not as if Google has staffed up a full-time team to deliver a new language that will be used throughout their organization any time soon. The developers don't expect to get much adoption for Noop, and hope that it will mainly influence people's thinking and other tools.

jakeherringbone 17y ago
Thanks for clarifying, Alex!

boskone 17y ago

It appears to an effort, written in Scala, to be Scala but with Java syntax.