7 ms·

His point is more about not putting all your eggs in one basket; you certainly don't tell your barista about an upcoming physician's appointment, or that you ar

His point is more about not putting all your eggs in one basket; you certainly don't tell your barista about an upcoming physician's appointment, or that you are in the market for a house. Your barista is also disconnected from parties who may leverage the information you provide him/her. Similarly, you don't tell your broker that you prefer Ethiopian coffee. Google offers so many services that it has a much broader insight into who you are. To the privacy-conscious, that's an unacceptable fact. Nothing to be pained about.

sliverstorm 12y ago
If knowing that I prefer Ethiopian coffee helps my broker better serve me, I'd tell them in a heartbeat.
- andersonvom 12y ago
  What if knowing you prefer Ethiopian coffee would make your insurance company charge you more because statistically these people are more prone to medical issues? Would you tell them in a heart beat? The pendulum swings both ways, and this is the reason why all of this should be opt-in.
  - icantthinkofone 12y ago
    Like many here, you are pretending that happens, and it doesn't. Too many are living that lie.
    - pyre 12y ago
      Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean that it won't. You're ignoring the fact that the data isn't transient. It persists into the future, at which point these things can (and probably will) happen. It's like arguing in favor of a monarchy just because the current ruler is just, competent and benevolent; while ignoring the possibility that the next ruler will be violent and vicious.
      - icantthinkofone 12y ago
        Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean it will either. You're ignoring the fact that, if Google started abusing your information, people would stream away from them in droves and Google is more than aware of that. Your monarchy analogy doesn't work either because, in a monarchy, you don't have the choice of leaving it other than leaving the country. With Google, and every other internet company (they all track you), you can leave on a whim.
        pyre 12y ago
        > Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean it will either. I never said that there was certainty that it would. Only that it is possible. You can't hand-wave away possibilities with "it's not currently happening now."
        icantthinkofone 12y ago
        Well, you're hand-waving that it can so it works both ways. Again, you're ignoring that people can walk away from this and nobody else is doing the exact same thing.
        twobits 12y ago
        "if Google started abusing your information, people would stream away from them in droves and Google is more than aware of that" I, like you, also get a daily email notice of what google is actually doing and planning, every morning. Larry also, sometimes, attaches sexy pics of himself. /sarc
  - khc 12y ago
    Should insurance companies charge smokers more because statistically those people are more prone to medical issues?
    - Aoyagi 12y ago
      Uh... yes? Obese people as well. And alcoholics. It works with cars, why wouldn't it work with humans?
kllrnohj 12y ago
Except the author then proceeds to toss all his eggs into Apple's basket. No, it's not about putting all the eggs in one basket, it's about paranoidly avoiding Google at all costs for some unknown reason.
- dirtyaura 12y ago
  What are you talking about? Of 12-14 services he listed, 4 were from Apple (iOS, Mobile Safari, Apple Maps for directions, and iCloud for Calendar sync). And quite likely, he is not paranoidily avoiding Google, but partly experimenting as he is running one of the very few companies that are directly trying to compete with Google in search.
  - nickonline 12y ago
    Just going from your examples above: - Safari/iOS will let Apple know you're in a market for a house - Safari will let Apple know you like Ethiopain coffee - Also it will probably allow them to track your searches - Along with Calendar sync and maps Apple knows both where you are currently and where you'll be next While not all of his eggs are in one basket, there's an awful lot of them providing an awful lot of "tracking" information to one entity. Sure, if he's experimenting with replacing Google's services that's a valid reason.
    - marrone12 12y ago
      The only difference is that Apple is not an advertising company. Google explicitly uses your information to advertise against you. Apple is not yet in that vertical.
      - jessedhillon 12y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAd iAd is a mobile advertising platform developed by Apple Inc. for its iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad line of mobile devices allowing third-party developers to directly embed advertisements into their applications. Announced on April 8, 2010, iAd is part of Apple's iOS 4, originally slated for release on June 21, 2010, the actual date was changed to July 1, 2010.
jastanton 12y ago
Actually it's more like going to your Dr appt and realizing they have a barista onsite... of course you're not going to tell the barista why you're going to the Dr, and the barista isn't going to know your full medical history, there is a pretty large separation of concerns there. Same applies to big companies. There are really big barriers up between services like there are between the Dr and the on site barista. To further this analogy, what if you went to the onsite barista and when you ordered your coffee the barista told you that you're allergic to one of the seasonings. That's helpful and relevant and I think this is where most people start panicking but if the Dr has a Lot of accountability which is what the top comment is suggesting is the main concern, then you will know that the Dr isn't sharing full medical history but rather just what is relevant, your allergies. This is convenient, and in my imaginary scenario just saved the person from a lot of trouble. Also in this imaginary scenario the patient opted-into this sharing of knowledge. I know this may not be a popular opinion, please share why instead of down voting me. I'm eager to learn and a down vote won't help me :P
- rsingel 12y ago
  There is no separation at Google anymore -- though there used to be. That was torn down to build Google +. http://www.wired.com/2012/04/opinion-singel-google-walls/all/ http://www.wired.com/2012/04/opinion-singel-google-walls/all...
- joeclark77 12y ago
  That may be true of doctors with coffee bars, but it is absolutely NOT true of Google. Google is an advertising company, period. All of the thousand things they do are for one purpose: to sell advertising based on getting better and better at knowing the customer and targeting ads you're likely to click on. Even if Google does say that some app is firewalled, the implied follow up is "...until customers stop caring" or "...until the law allows us to use it". Everything they do is intended to facilitate advertising, even if not yet.
  - makosdv 12y ago
    Exactly. I was surprised by Youtube yesterday when it recommended some videos related to some Google searches I had just made... Creeped me out a bit.
lubujackson 12y ago
And Google has already misused their trust with Google+ and the YouTube "real name" integration. As the integration becomes more complete, the ramifications of subtle changes become more problematic and hard to predict.
- wyclif 12y ago
  Google+ dropped the real name policy a long time ago.
  - sesqu 12y ago
    The policy was dropped 7 weeks ago.
    - wyclif 12y ago
      Seven weeks is a long time on the internets.
- victorhooi 12y ago
  See, I don't get the whole furor over this. Most people just seem to be using it to join the Oh Noes, Google is Evil crowd without actually explaining how it negatively affects them personally. I've always just used my real name online - so instead of having an email address like sexy_asian_chick88@hotmail.com, I just used my name. It's a little less embarrassing when you have to give it to people, and I sort of got over those sorts of email addresses in grade 5. Sure, that means people can link what I write online, but it's hardly worse than if they just searched for my nickname, and did some legwork. And really, what am I writing online that is so private and secretive that I need to firewall it from my actual identity? I wouldn't be having such discussions on a public forum online - I'd do it offline. If Now, sure, if I was living under a oppressive regime, and had to get data out - but let's be honest, as a percentage, how many of us HNers fall into this category? And even then, would you really be doing it on YouTube? YouTube is a bastion of stupid (but funny) cat videos, parody videos, movie trailers and music covers. I'm fairly sure a whistleblower would be using something a little more appropriate, and where privacy was actually a feature. And quite frankly, considering the awful quality if YouTube comments, I'd applaud any attempts to make people even slightly accountable for the awful and often hateful c*ap they write on YouTube comments.
X-Istence 12y ago
Actually, I do tell my broker I like Ethiopian coffee, if I like it, there are probably many more like me, find me some shares in a company that deals in Ethiopian coffee!
khc 12y ago
If the intention is to avoid putting all the eggs in one basket, then one doesn't need to avoid any use of google services.
ndomin 12y ago
Except maybe your barista happens to know a real estate agent and will get you an amazing deal on a new house. Something you might not have gotten if you didn't tell them...
- sesqu 12y ago
  Sure sucks for the real estate agents who don't network with baristas, though.

sliverstorm 12y ago

If knowing that I prefer Ethiopian coffee helps my broker better serve me, I'd tell them in a heartbeat.

andersonvom 12y ago
What if knowing you prefer Ethiopian coffee would make your insurance company charge you more because statistically these people are more prone to medical issues? Would you tell them in a heart beat? The pendulum swings both ways, and this is the reason why all of this should be opt-in.
- icantthinkofone 12y ago
  Like many here, you are pretending that happens, and it doesn't. Too many are living that lie.
  - pyre 12y ago
    Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean that it won't. You're ignoring the fact that the data isn't transient. It persists into the future, at which point these things can (and probably will) happen. It's like arguing in favor of a monarchy just because the current ruler is just, competent and benevolent; while ignoring the possibility that the next ruler will be violent and vicious.
    - icantthinkofone 12y ago
      Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean it will either. You're ignoring the fact that, if Google started abusing your information, people would stream away from them in droves and Google is more than aware of that. Your monarchy analogy doesn't work either because, in a monarchy, you don't have the choice of leaving it other than leaving the country. With Google, and every other internet company (they all track you), you can leave on a whim.
      - pyre 12y ago
        > Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean it will either. I never said that there was certainty that it would. Only that it is possible. You can't hand-wave away possibilities with "it's not currently happening now."
        icantthinkofone 12y ago
        Well, you're hand-waving that it can so it works both ways. Again, you're ignoring that people can walk away from this and nobody else is doing the exact same thing.
      - twobits 12y ago
        "if Google started abusing your information, people would stream away from them in droves and Google is more than aware of that" I, like you, also get a daily email notice of what google is actually doing and planning, every morning. Larry also, sometimes, attaches sexy pics of himself. /sarc
- khc 12y ago
  Should insurance companies charge smokers more because statistically those people are more prone to medical issues?
  - Aoyagi 12y ago
    Uh... yes? Obese people as well. And alcoholics. It works with cars, why wouldn't it work with humans?

kllrnohj 12y ago

Except the author then proceeds to toss all his eggs into Apple's basket. No, it's not about putting all the eggs in one basket, it's about paranoidly avoiding Google at all costs for some unknown reason.

dirtyaura 12y ago
What are you talking about? Of 12-14 services he listed, 4 were from Apple (iOS, Mobile Safari, Apple Maps for directions, and iCloud for Calendar sync). And quite likely, he is not paranoidily avoiding Google, but partly experimenting as he is running one of the very few companies that are directly trying to compete with Google in search.
- nickonline 12y ago
  Just going from your examples above: - Safari/iOS will let Apple know you're in a market for a house - Safari will let Apple know you like Ethiopain coffee - Also it will probably allow them to track your searches - Along with Calendar sync and maps Apple knows both where you are currently and where you'll be next While not all of his eggs are in one basket, there's an awful lot of them providing an awful lot of "tracking" information to one entity. Sure, if he's experimenting with replacing Google's services that's a valid reason.
  - marrone12 12y ago
    The only difference is that Apple is not an advertising company. Google explicitly uses your information to advertise against you. Apple is not yet in that vertical.
    - jessedhillon 12y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAd iAd is a mobile advertising platform developed by Apple Inc. for its iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad line of mobile devices allowing third-party developers to directly embed advertisements into their applications. Announced on April 8, 2010, iAd is part of Apple's iOS 4, originally slated for release on June 21, 2010, the actual date was changed to July 1, 2010.

jastanton 12y ago

Actually it's more like going to your Dr appt and realizing they have a barista onsite... of course you're not going to tell the barista why you're going to the Dr, and the barista isn't going to know your full medical history, there is a pretty large separation of concerns there. Same applies to big companies. There are really big barriers up between services like there are between the Dr and the on site barista. To further this analogy, what if you went to the onsite barista and when you ordered your coffee the barista told you that you're allergic to one of the seasonings. That's helpful and relevant and I think this is where most people start panicking but if the Dr has a Lot of accountability which is what the top comment is suggesting is the main concern, then you will know that the Dr isn't sharing full medical history but rather just what is relevant, your allergies. This is convenient, and in my imaginary scenario just saved the person from a lot of trouble. Also in this imaginary scenario the patient opted-into this sharing of knowledge. I know this may not be a popular opinion, please share why instead of down voting me. I'm eager to learn and a down vote won't help me :P

rsingel 12y ago
There is no separation at Google anymore -- though there used to be. That was torn down to build Google +. http://www.wired.com/2012/04/opinion-singel-google-walls/all/ http://www.wired.com/2012/04/opinion-singel-google-walls/all...
joeclark77 12y ago
That may be true of doctors with coffee bars, but it is absolutely NOT true of Google. Google is an advertising company, period. All of the thousand things they do are for one purpose: to sell advertising based on getting better and better at knowing the customer and targeting ads you're likely to click on. Even if Google does say that some app is firewalled, the implied follow up is "...until customers stop caring" or "...until the law allows us to use it". Everything they do is intended to facilitate advertising, even if not yet.
- makosdv 12y ago
  Exactly. I was surprised by Youtube yesterday when it recommended some videos related to some Google searches I had just made... Creeped me out a bit.

lubujackson 12y ago

And Google has already misused their trust with Google+ and the YouTube "real name" integration. As the integration becomes more complete, the ramifications of subtle changes become more problematic and hard to predict.

wyclif 12y ago
Google+ dropped the real name policy a long time ago.
- sesqu 12y ago
  The policy was dropped 7 weeks ago.
  - wyclif 12y ago
    Seven weeks is a long time on the internets.
victorhooi 12y ago
See, I don't get the whole furor over this. Most people just seem to be using it to join the Oh Noes, Google is Evil crowd without actually explaining how it negatively affects them personally. I've always just used my real name online - so instead of having an email address like sexy_asian_chick88@hotmail.com, I just used my name. It's a little less embarrassing when you have to give it to people, and I sort of got over those sorts of email addresses in grade 5. Sure, that means people can link what I write online, but it's hardly worse than if they just searched for my nickname, and did some legwork. And really, what am I writing online that is so private and secretive that I need to firewall it from my actual identity? I wouldn't be having such discussions on a public forum online - I'd do it offline. If Now, sure, if I was living under a oppressive regime, and had to get data out - but let's be honest, as a percentage, how many of us HNers fall into this category? And even then, would you really be doing it on YouTube? YouTube is a bastion of stupid (but funny) cat videos, parody videos, movie trailers and music covers. I'm fairly sure a whistleblower would be using something a little more appropriate, and where privacy was actually a feature. And quite frankly, considering the awful quality if YouTube comments, I'd applaud any attempts to make people even slightly accountable for the awful and often hateful c*ap they write on YouTube comments.

X-Istence 12y ago

Actually, I do tell my broker I like Ethiopian coffee, if I like it, there are probably many more like me, find me some shares in a company that deals in Ethiopian coffee!

khc 12y ago

If the intention is to avoid putting all the eggs in one basket, then one doesn't need to avoid any use of google services.

ndomin 12y ago

Except maybe your barista happens to know a real estate agent and will get you an amazing deal on a new house. Something you might not have gotten if you didn't tell them...

sesqu 12y ago
Sure sucks for the real estate agents who don't network with baristas, though.