4 ms·

Don't get me wrong--learning to code is a great intellectual exercise. But the cynic in me questions whether a lot of the push to integrate coding into school/

by svenkat 12y ago

Don't get me wrong--learning to code is a great intellectual exercise. But the cynic in me questions whether a lot of the push to integrate coding into school/society is about diluting the software programmer field. It's no secret that programmers command extremely high salaries, relative to their level of education. By increasing the number of people who can code, the value of the (average) programmer goes down.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
clownba 12y ago
Its because software programming is easy
- svenkat 12y ago
  If you want to put words in my mouth, I can't stop you. I never said that software programming is easy.
danso 12y ago
I think seeing it simply as "learn to code" is too limiting. Programming is a means for humans to implement math and logic with real world effects. Perhaps early efforts will be rote and unenlightening, but I would hope that learning programming is a vehicle towards instilling a greater literacy of logic and numeracy in our society.
adwf 12y ago
I think it's more a fear that programming will eventually leave everyone else without a job. Hence if you can't program in the future, you'll be in as much difficulty as someone who say, can't read/write in an office job - permanently relegated to simple manual labour.
Already__Taken 12y ago
If you want to be really cynical, it's GCHQ wanting a bigger talent pool.
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  But this just puts the power of computing in the hands of the grubby proletariat rather than preserving it for the rich. Surely that's not a Conservative policy move ...
  - gaius 12y ago
    It was Thatchers govt who introduced the original BBC computer literacy project 30 years ago. Teaching kids to code is very much a Tory thing.
    - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
      Didn't the initiative for the project come from the BBC rather than from the Conservative led government of the time?
jiggy2011 12y ago
Programming salaries in the UK aren't really that high, plenty are advertised at sub £20k.
tfgg 12y ago
Being a programmer in the modern age is like being a wizard, and it's no surprise that other wizards are concerned that people might learn their magic. I'd love it if everyone could program, it'd make my life a lot easier and I could do something else interesting. Also if your job is easy enough to be done by a schoolchild after minimal training, I'm not sure you deserve it.
- mherkender 12y ago
  I agree. It's bound to fail for one thing -- nobody's gonna get blackballed in the programming industry for being too open about programming fundamentals. Worse yet, controlling information to secure your position is a special kind of evil. Do you respect lawyers who make the world more litigative and themselves more valuable? Do you respect doctors/police officers/etc that protect others in their profession at the expense of the people they hurt? That's the world one builds when they hide that kind of information, one where professions aren't equally accountable.
- dropit_sphere 12y ago
  While I share your wishes that more people would learn to program, this quote rubbed me the wrong way: "Also if your job is easy enough to be done by a schoolchild after minimal training, I'm not sure you deserve it." The question is not whether the job can done by a schoolchild with minimal training. The question is: Does your boss think that it can be done by a schoolchild with minimal training? I don't have a solution. I don't want to see a license for programming or anything ridiculous---(although perhaps a license to manage programmers...), but there is a real problem here.
gaius 12y ago
Allowing for inflation, programmer salaries have been flat since 2000. Law, medicine, accounting - all of these absolutely pay more and are more secure jobs.

by svenkat 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

clownba 12y ago

Its because software programming is easy

svenkat 12y ago
If you want to put words in my mouth, I can't stop you. I never said that software programming is easy.

danso 12y ago

I think seeing it simply as "learn to code" is too limiting. Programming is a means for humans to implement math and logic with real world effects. Perhaps early efforts will be rote and unenlightening, but I would hope that learning programming is a vehicle towards instilling a greater literacy of logic and numeracy in our society.

adwf 12y ago

I think it's more a fear that programming will eventually leave everyone else without a job. Hence if you can't program in the future, you'll be in as much difficulty as someone who say, can't read/write in an office job - permanently relegated to simple manual labour.

Already__Taken 12y ago

If you want to be really cynical, it's GCHQ wanting a bigger talent pool.

pbhjpbhj 12y ago
But this just puts the power of computing in the hands of the grubby proletariat rather than preserving it for the rich. Surely that's not a Conservative policy move ...
- gaius 12y ago
  It was Thatchers govt who introduced the original BBC computer literacy project 30 years ago. Teaching kids to code is very much a Tory thing.
  - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
    Didn't the initiative for the project come from the BBC rather than from the Conservative led government of the time?

jiggy2011 12y ago

Programming salaries in the UK aren't really that high, plenty are advertised at sub £20k.

tfgg 12y ago

Being a programmer in the modern age is like being a wizard, and it's no surprise that other wizards are concerned that people might learn their magic. I'd love it if everyone could program, it'd make my life a lot easier and I could do something else interesting. Also if your job is easy enough to be done by a schoolchild after minimal training, I'm not sure you deserve it.

mherkender 12y ago
I agree. It's bound to fail for one thing -- nobody's gonna get blackballed in the programming industry for being too open about programming fundamentals. Worse yet, controlling information to secure your position is a special kind of evil. Do you respect lawyers who make the world more litigative and themselves more valuable? Do you respect doctors/police officers/etc that protect others in their profession at the expense of the people they hurt? That's the world one builds when they hide that kind of information, one where professions aren't equally accountable.
dropit_sphere 12y ago
While I share your wishes that more people would learn to program, this quote rubbed me the wrong way: "Also if your job is easy enough to be done by a schoolchild after minimal training, I'm not sure you deserve it." The question is not whether the job can done by a schoolchild with minimal training. The question is: Does your boss think that it can be done by a schoolchild with minimal training? I don't have a solution. I don't want to see a license for programming or anything ridiculous---(although perhaps a license to manage programmers...), but there is a real problem here.

gaius 12y ago

Allowing for inflation, programmer salaries have been flat since 2000. Law, medicine, accounting - all of these absolutely pay more and are more secure jobs.