7 ms·

BBC begins kids coding push with Bitesize and TV shows

35 points by LukeB_UK 12y ago

lightblade 12y ago
I don't think kids should learn to code at such early age, not without proper ethics training. Programming gives you a lot of power. The power to do both good and evil. Children just don't have that kind of judgement. If you teach your kids to learn to code and they end up hacking the bank and got caught, who is going to take responsibility? Does the kid get tried as an adult or juvenile?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Shish2k 12y ago
  I don't think kids should learn to use cutlery at such early age, not without proper ethics training. Cutlery gives you a lot of power. The power to do both good and evil. Children just don't have that kind of judgement. If you teach a kid to eat with a knife and fork and they end up stabbing someone, who is going to take responsibility? Does the kid get tried as an adult or juvenile?
  - lightblade 12y ago
    Oh, but we have proper ethics training for using cutlery. It's called table manner. > Table manners are the rules of etiquette used while eating, which may also include the appropriate use of utensils. > - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners Now the stabbing part, there are many court cases of these. I can't cite specifics, but I'm sure you can find them.
    - Shish2k 12y ago
      "We teach them basic manners; some of them ignore it and get into trouble, but overall it's still a net benefit to society to teach the tool to all children" is exactly the point I am making :-)
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
svenkat 12y ago
Don't get me wrong--learning to code is a great intellectual exercise. But the cynic in me questions whether a lot of the push to integrate coding into school/society is about diluting the software programmer field. It's no secret that programmers command extremely high salaries, relative to their level of education. By increasing the number of people who can code, the value of the (average) programmer goes down.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- clownba 12y ago
  Its because software programming is easy
  - svenkat 12y ago
    If you want to put words in my mouth, I can't stop you. I never said that software programming is easy.
- danso 12y ago
  I think seeing it simply as "learn to code" is too limiting. Programming is a means for humans to implement math and logic with real world effects. Perhaps early efforts will be rote and unenlightening, but I would hope that learning programming is a vehicle towards instilling a greater literacy of logic and numeracy in our society.
- adwf 12y ago
  I think it's more a fear that programming will eventually leave everyone else without a job. Hence if you can't program in the future, you'll be in as much difficulty as someone who say, can't read/write in an office job - permanently relegated to simple manual labour.
- Already__Taken 12y ago
  If you want to be really cynical, it's GCHQ wanting a bigger talent pool.
planetjones 12y ago
In the UK many software jobs have been outsourced and offshored. The roles of many people onshore have been reduced to "project manager", "analyst" or "consultant". Of course this isn't true of everyone, but it is of many "mass employers". I just see a disconnect between the reality of the "mass market" software development in the UK and the "mass market" appeal of education programmes like these. Is that fair ?
- johneth 12y ago
  I'd argue against your point that many software jobs have been outsources/offshored - at least not any more than other major western economies. The UK has a relatively large software industry - game development, european headquarters of various large technology multinationals, a thriving tech scene in Silicon Roundabout / Cambridge / starting in the north of England, and a fairly large hobbyist arena. If anything, this push will bring the jobs that have been offshored back to the UK as the talent pool grows.
  - gaius 12y ago
    The dirty little secret of Tech City, which is what we are calling silicon roundabout this week, is there is very very little tech there. Lots of "creatives", lots of "social media brand strategy", a few hairdressers and bakers with Twitter accounts. But no actual tech is developed there.
    - Vulkum 12y ago
      Is Tech City the geeky version of Sin City?
- chippy 12y ago
  I would say most mass market software people here are working for peanuts in a digital marketing firm. Not sure how that relates to these programmes... but
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  I disagree. There have a been a large number of companies requiring software developers opening up new offices in Northern Ireland over the last few years and existing ones have been expanding.
malkia 12y ago
A lot of UK based video game developers have moved to US, Europe, Asia, Japan in the last 10 or more years. Lots of studio got closed down, some of them with long history and very respectable.
- bnastic 12y ago
  Gamedev in the UK today is but a shadow of its former self.
SixSigma 12y ago
Not the BBC, programming became part of the National Curriculum as from today http://bbc.co.uk/news/education-28987787 http://bbc.co.uk/news/education-28987787
gaius 12y ago
http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_computer_science.htm http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_computer_science.htm 14% unemployment among CS grads in the UK (double that of law). Yet you name it, the government wants more women, minorities, children, you name it to go into the field. Something doesn't add up here.
- evan_ 12y ago
  Programming is relevant to more than just computer science grads- it seems like every week there's a story of a motivated professional who is not what you would typically call a programmer finding a way to automate a task through programming and saving huge amounts of time and money in the process.
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  We're talking coding here, not computer science. Computer scientists make the developments that then get engineered in to the tools we use to code with, the platforms we use to code on, etc.. People using computers more in a greater range of disciplines at a deeper level doesn't seem like it would necessarily impact on CS at all - there might be more standardisation reducing the demand for new tools. There might be more focussed advances where one or two CS workers get their work adopted in to current tech. Both these things would lead to less employment of CS grads (in CS) wouldn't they? It might also be that specialists without domain knowledge are not as desirable as those with domain knowledge who can go on to train in CS (or to add IT skills, which I just noticed are wrapped up with the stats you quote for CS). To add an extra prong to the enquiry, does http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_mathematics.htm http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_mathematics.htm showing only 55% of those studying mathematics having a job mean that we should not teach mathematics to the general school population?
  - gaius 12y ago
    Unemployed 9% on the page you link to.
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  That includes "IT" degrees, many of which are low end courses at former polytechnics designed to churn out graduates, I don't know how that compares to the unemployment rate of "real" CS.

35 points by LukeB_UK 12y ago

I don't think kids should learn to code at such early age, not without proper ethics training. Programming gives you a lot of power. The power to do both good and evil. Children just don't have that kind of judgement. If you teach your kids to learn to code and they end up hacking the bank and got caught, who is going to take responsibility? Does the kid get tried as an adult or juvenile?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
Shish2k 12y ago
I don't think kids should learn to use cutlery at such early age, not without proper ethics training. Cutlery gives you a lot of power. The power to do both good and evil. Children just don't have that kind of judgement. If you teach a kid to eat with a knife and fork and they end up stabbing someone, who is going to take responsibility? Does the kid get tried as an adult or juvenile?
- lightblade 12y ago
  Oh, but we have proper ethics training for using cutlery. It's called table manner. > Table manners are the rules of etiquette used while eating, which may also include the appropriate use of utensils. > - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners Now the stabbing part, there are many court cases of these. I can't cite specifics, but I'm sure you can find them.
  - Shish2k 12y ago
    "We teach them basic manners; some of them ignore it and get into trouble, but overall it's still a net benefit to society to teach the tool to all children" is exactly the point I am making :-)

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

svenkat 12y ago

Don't get me wrong--learning to code is a great intellectual exercise. But the cynic in me questions whether a lot of the push to integrate coding into school/society is about diluting the software programmer field. It's no secret that programmers command extremely high salaries, relative to their level of education. By increasing the number of people who can code, the value of the (average) programmer goes down.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
clownba 12y ago
Its because software programming is easy
- svenkat 12y ago
  If you want to put words in my mouth, I can't stop you. I never said that software programming is easy.
danso 12y ago
I think seeing it simply as "learn to code" is too limiting. Programming is a means for humans to implement math and logic with real world effects. Perhaps early efforts will be rote and unenlightening, but I would hope that learning programming is a vehicle towards instilling a greater literacy of logic and numeracy in our society.
adwf 12y ago
I think it's more a fear that programming will eventually leave everyone else without a job. Hence if you can't program in the future, you'll be in as much difficulty as someone who say, can't read/write in an office job - permanently relegated to simple manual labour.
Already__Taken 12y ago
If you want to be really cynical, it's GCHQ wanting a bigger talent pool.

planetjones 12y ago

In the UK many software jobs have been outsourced and offshored. The roles of many people onshore have been reduced to "project manager", "analyst" or "consultant". Of course this isn't true of everyone, but it is of many "mass employers". I just see a disconnect between the reality of the "mass market" software development in the UK and the "mass market" appeal of education programmes like these. Is that fair ?

johneth 12y ago
I'd argue against your point that many software jobs have been outsources/offshored - at least not any more than other major western economies. The UK has a relatively large software industry - game development, european headquarters of various large technology multinationals, a thriving tech scene in Silicon Roundabout / Cambridge / starting in the north of England, and a fairly large hobbyist arena. If anything, this push will bring the jobs that have been offshored back to the UK as the talent pool grows.
- gaius 12y ago
  The dirty little secret of Tech City, which is what we are calling silicon roundabout this week, is there is very very little tech there. Lots of "creatives", lots of "social media brand strategy", a few hairdressers and bakers with Twitter accounts. But no actual tech is developed there.
  - Vulkum 12y ago
    Is Tech City the geeky version of Sin City?
chippy 12y ago
I would say most mass market software people here are working for peanuts in a digital marketing firm. Not sure how that relates to these programmes... but
k-mcgrady 12y ago
I disagree. There have a been a large number of companies requiring software developers opening up new offices in Northern Ireland over the last few years and existing ones have been expanding.

malkia 12y ago

A lot of UK based video game developers have moved to US, Europe, Asia, Japan in the last 10 or more years. Lots of studio got closed down, some of them with long history and very respectable.

bnastic 12y ago
Gamedev in the UK today is but a shadow of its former self.

SixSigma 12y ago

Not the BBC, programming became part of the National Curriculum as from today http://bbc.co.uk/news/education-28987787 http://bbc.co.uk/news/education-28987787

gaius 12y ago

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_computer_science.htm http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_computer_science.htm 14% unemployment among CS grads in the UK (double that of law). Yet you name it, the government wants more women, minorities, children, you name it to go into the field. Something doesn't add up here.

evan_ 12y ago
Programming is relevant to more than just computer science grads- it seems like every week there's a story of a motivated professional who is not what you would typically call a programmer finding a way to automate a task through programming and saving huge amounts of time and money in the process.
pbhjpbhj 12y ago
We're talking coding here, not computer science. Computer scientists make the developments that then get engineered in to the tools we use to code with, the platforms we use to code on, etc.. People using computers more in a greater range of disciplines at a deeper level doesn't seem like it would necessarily impact on CS at all - there might be more standardisation reducing the demand for new tools. There might be more focussed advances where one or two CS workers get their work adopted in to current tech. Both these things would lead to less employment of CS grads (in CS) wouldn't they? It might also be that specialists without domain knowledge are not as desirable as those with domain knowledge who can go on to train in CS (or to add IT skills, which I just noticed are wrapped up with the stats you quote for CS). To add an extra prong to the enquiry, does http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_mathematics.htm http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_mathematics.htm showing only 55% of those studying mathematics having a job mean that we should not teach mathematics to the general school population?
- gaius 12y ago
  Unemployed 9% on the page you link to.
jiggy2011 12y ago
That includes "IT" degrees, many of which are low end courses at former polytechnics designed to churn out graduates, I don't know how that compares to the unemployment rate of "real" CS.