6 ms·

How is that bullshit? You've got a page of your commonly-visited sites that would be empty if not pre-populated. Mozilla has offered up a balanced way to pre-po

How is that bullshit? You've got a page of your commonly-visited sites that would be empty if not pre-populated. Mozilla has offered up a balanced way to pre-populate it: put popular sites up for free and offer a handful of spots to other people who will pay for it. I've got a Samsung SMART TV that comes with something called "Smart Hub". In the same way as Mozilla they've pre-populated a number of applications that could be useful. This means that Netflix and Youtube are now a single click away for me and usable as soon as the TV is powered on. If they hadn't pre-populated something in the Smart Hub, I'd have to dig through the catalog for to find the apps I want to use, and I'd be staring at an empty screen trying to figure out what I need to do on that page, which is probably the same sort of experience that new users might feel trying to navigate the web. Defaults help you get started fast, and having "something" rather than "nothing" doesn't automatically mean "cluttered".

fidotron 12y ago
It is bullshit. There is nothing wrong, at all, with it being empty. It's a burden on those of independent mind to have to delete extraneous crap. You might as well be Microsoft saying it's fine that IE is default and bundled with Windows, thus effectively pushing Netscape out of the market. This is also the exact mentality that leads to bloatware on PCs and phones. The person that put it there thinks it's helpful, even if it took a bit of financial persuasion.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Microsoft baked IE into the OS, making it hard to temove IE and making it hard to install anything else. It wasn't just that IE was the default browser that caused MS problems in Europe courts.
  - fidotron 12y ago
    It was never hard to install anything else. The problem was that because it was default most people couldn't be persuaded of the point. The fact it was low level welded into the OS merely made it possible for MS to argue it was necessary to be in by default for technical reasons as opposed to being a business decision.
prawn 12y ago
I have a Samsung SMART TV too and I find Smart Hub to be extremely annoying in that there are prominent app spots that cannot be deleted. They're just there for Samsung to promote whatever partner it likes and it's the sort of thing that makes me regret buying Samsung.
- dblohm7 12y ago
  In this case they can be deleted, and furthermore are eventually replaced by tiles containing thumbnails from your own browsing history, just as they are now.
scrollaway 12y ago
You are confusing "emptiness" and "lack of defaults" from my post. Maybe I was not clear enough. Firefox itself used to come with a somewhat large set of default bookmarks I believe. For Google, Amazon and some others. Those weren't sponsored but they also did not take most room on a UI element users are going to see reasonably regularly. I'm arguing that the tiles being empty is completely fine. I don't even use firefox anymore, so this is of little importance to me personally - I just think that it's wrong to say "it's best for users to see content". Sometimes, it's good for users to see emptiness. It is something we game designers use quite a lot in video games actually: Introduce the user to a nearly non-existant interface and gradually introduce new elements as the player becomes more familiar with some mechanics. I recommend the first hour of Borderlands 2 as the prime example of this.
pbhjpbhj 12y ago
It's bullshit because there's a big step between 'Mozilla thought it would be best that they see “content.”' and them having default paid advertising in all new browser installs. Wikipedia's got millions of pages of content but barring some self promotion it doesn't have adverts. Mozilla could have used any of those pages of content if they were just concerned about blank tiles. Indeed there are tons of options that aren't paid advertising from help pages on using FF to a list of the top [U rated] sites used by FF users to links to the most used add-ons/extensions/themes and such. To recapitulate, it's bullshit because that line is is trying to sell us on them being stuck and having to place advertising in the browser. If they think it's the right thing to do then they should be convinced enough to say "we thought it best to put advertising in the browser", if they're not convinced and feel they need to make excuses then it's highly likely that it's the wrong thing to do. I expect more from Mozilla, perhaps this is what the change in leadership is bringing us?

fidotron 12y ago

It is bullshit. There is nothing wrong, at all, with it being empty. It's a burden on those of independent mind to have to delete extraneous crap. You might as well be Microsoft saying it's fine that IE is default and bundled with Windows, thus effectively pushing Netscape out of the market. This is also the exact mentality that leads to bloatware on PCs and phones. The person that put it there thinks it's helpful, even if it took a bit of financial persuasion.

DanBC 12y ago
Microsoft baked IE into the OS, making it hard to temove IE and making it hard to install anything else. It wasn't just that IE was the default browser that caused MS problems in Europe courts.
- fidotron 12y ago
  It was never hard to install anything else. The problem was that because it was default most people couldn't be persuaded of the point. The fact it was low level welded into the OS merely made it possible for MS to argue it was necessary to be in by default for technical reasons as opposed to being a business decision.

prawn 12y ago

I have a Samsung SMART TV too and I find Smart Hub to be extremely annoying in that there are prominent app spots that cannot be deleted. They're just there for Samsung to promote whatever partner it likes and it's the sort of thing that makes me regret buying Samsung.

dblohm7 12y ago
In this case they can be deleted, and furthermore are eventually replaced by tiles containing thumbnails from your own browsing history, just as they are now.

scrollaway 12y ago

You are confusing "emptiness" and "lack of defaults" from my post. Maybe I was not clear enough. Firefox itself used to come with a somewhat large set of default bookmarks I believe. For Google, Amazon and some others. Those weren't sponsored but they also did not take most room on a UI element users are going to see reasonably regularly. I'm arguing that the tiles being empty is completely fine. I don't even use firefox anymore, so this is of little importance to me personally - I just think that it's wrong to say "it's best for users to see content". Sometimes, it's good for users to see emptiness. It is something we game designers use quite a lot in video games actually: Introduce the user to a nearly non-existant interface and gradually introduce new elements as the player becomes more familiar with some mechanics. I recommend the first hour of Borderlands 2 as the prime example of this.

pbhjpbhj 12y ago

It's bullshit because there's a big step between 'Mozilla thought it would be best that they see “content.”' and them having default paid advertising in all new browser installs. Wikipedia's got millions of pages of content but barring some self promotion it doesn't have adverts. Mozilla could have used any of those pages of content if they were just concerned about blank tiles. Indeed there are tons of options that aren't paid advertising from help pages on using FF to a list of the top [U rated] sites used by FF users to links to the most used add-ons/extensions/themes and such. To recapitulate, it's bullshit because that line is is trying to sell us on them being stuck and having to place advertising in the browser. If they think it's the right thing to do then they should be convinced enough to say "we thought it best to put advertising in the browser", if they're not convinced and feel they need to make excuses then it's highly likely that it's the wrong thing to do. I expect more from Mozilla, perhaps this is what the change in leadership is bringing us?