5 ms·

The Electric Warship

37 points by grej 12y ago

terravion 12y ago
Stability is why it was discontinued--naval modeling has come a long way in the last century and opened up a lot of new (or repeated) ground for naval architecture.
kghose 12y ago
Does any one know why the tumble home hull was discontinued. Wikipedia says it has stability problems in turns and rough seas. The Zumwalt's prow is meant to go under waves. Has the ship been tested in rough seas?
- gk1 12y ago
  Former naval architect here, used to work in the office that designed this thing (but it was before my time). They haven't entirely dismissed the tumblehome hull. For example, the LCS 2 has a hull that resembles a tumblehome (though it's not as drastic as the DDG-1000). Aside from the financial and mission capability issues, the novel design presented more problems than it solved... Which contributed to the cost overruns. Edit: With regards to whether the ship has been tested... Prior to the first one being completed, the most they could do is model testing.
  - spydum 12y ago
    If there is anything I have learned from working at a large enterprise shop, it's that bad decisions made early on, once found to be such, are next to impossible to change. People would rather try to "muscle" through it (throw $$, people, hardware, wellness efforts), rather than discuss a new design. I imagine it's always about 2x worse in a government shop, and another 2x worse for defense gigs.
damian2000 12y ago
"And at the heart of its operations is a virtual data center powered by off-the-shelf server hardware, various flavors of Linux, and over 6 million lines of software code." -- http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/the-navys-newest-warship-is-powered-by-linux/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/the-na...
the_french 12y ago
This piece and the [EM Briefcase](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8228755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8228755) made me realize how much IEEE Spectrum appears to be PR. Is this normal, are we being duped?
- tzs 12y ago
  What seemed PRish to you in those articles?
- chillingeffect 12y ago
  It's not exactly pure PR/propaganda, but it's definitely the most consumer-oriented of IEEE's publications. I'd place it somewhere between mags like Popular Mechanics and full-on topic-specific engineering journals. I actually find it quite good in general, though I don't like reading about war tech; I'm sure the U.S. military pushes hard to get stories in it. And most people don't realize that most technology follows a military->big business->everyday consumer path. Which is why anyone who is not completely narcotized realizes self-driving cars won't be hitting the suburbs until they're thoroughly deployed in the military and internal to big business. So we are being duped in the way that our daydreams are supporting research that we'll be the last ones to enjoy... just look at the internet and cellphones. The military and big business had them for decades before "us".
  - the_french 12y ago
    One of my issues is that this article discusses the Zumwalt's main failures as being too 'avant-garde' where it was a classic example of a jack of all trades, master of none. The whole ship was supposed to have swappable 'mission packs' that would let it do anything while being stealthy, fast, cheap, modern etc... The article has a very pro-Zumwalt / Bath Iron works (mentioned several times) spin to it. The EM Briefcase was written by the president of the company cited in the article (Metatech). It sounds a lot like PG's suits essay.
georgeecollins 12y ago
Before WW2 the French had invested more in fortifications than the Germans did in tanks. Unfortunately, tanks were what mattered. The US may have the best fighter planes and the best destroyers, but maybe what is going to really matter is the quality and quantity of missiles and drones. Not that anyone really knows..
- ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
  The Zumwalt isn't lacking for missiles, and since when are we in a drone deficit?
- hga 12y ago
  The French and their allies also invested more in tanks than the Germans, they had about 1/5 more in the Battle of France. Also per Wikipedia, they had the most after the Soviet Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_France#Inter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_France#Inter_War The content at that link does a pretty good job of explaining why this numerical and in many respects qualitative advantage did them little good. As for your latter point, from where will those missiles and drones be launched, and for the latter, recovered???
- a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
  Launching missiles and drones is the whole point of the new destroyer platforms.
moron4hire 12y ago
The USS Zumwalt will be commanded by Cpt. Kirk. I not kidding, his first name is even James. James A. Kirk: http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/ddg1000/Pages/bio1.aspx#.U_3E_PldWSo http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/ddg1000/Pages/bio1.aspx#.U...

37 points by grej 12y ago

Stability is why it was discontinued--naval modeling has come a long way in the last century and opened up a lot of new (or repeated) ground for naval architecture.

kghose 12y ago

Does any one know why the tumble home hull was discontinued. Wikipedia says it has stability problems in turns and rough seas. The Zumwalt's prow is meant to go under waves. Has the ship been tested in rough seas?

gk1 12y ago
Former naval architect here, used to work in the office that designed this thing (but it was before my time). They haven't entirely dismissed the tumblehome hull. For example, the LCS 2 has a hull that resembles a tumblehome (though it's not as drastic as the DDG-1000). Aside from the financial and mission capability issues, the novel design presented more problems than it solved... Which contributed to the cost overruns. Edit: With regards to whether the ship has been tested... Prior to the first one being completed, the most they could do is model testing.
- spydum 12y ago
  If there is anything I have learned from working at a large enterprise shop, it's that bad decisions made early on, once found to be such, are next to impossible to change. People would rather try to "muscle" through it (throw $$, people, hardware, wellness efforts), rather than discuss a new design. I imagine it's always about 2x worse in a government shop, and another 2x worse for defense gigs.

damian2000 12y ago

"And at the heart of its operations is a virtual data center powered by off-the-shelf server hardware, various flavors of Linux, and over 6 million lines of software code." -- http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/the-navys-newest-warship-is-powered-by-linux/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/the-na...

the_french 12y ago

This piece and the [EM Briefcase](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8228755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8228755) made me realize how much IEEE Spectrum appears to be PR. Is this normal, are we being duped?

tzs 12y ago
What seemed PRish to you in those articles?
chillingeffect 12y ago
It's not exactly pure PR/propaganda, but it's definitely the most consumer-oriented of IEEE's publications. I'd place it somewhere between mags like Popular Mechanics and full-on topic-specific engineering journals. I actually find it quite good in general, though I don't like reading about war tech; I'm sure the U.S. military pushes hard to get stories in it. And most people don't realize that most technology follows a military->big business->everyday consumer path. Which is why anyone who is not completely narcotized realizes self-driving cars won't be hitting the suburbs until they're thoroughly deployed in the military and internal to big business. So we are being duped in the way that our daydreams are supporting research that we'll be the last ones to enjoy... just look at the internet and cellphones. The military and big business had them for decades before "us".
- the_french 12y ago
  One of my issues is that this article discusses the Zumwalt's main failures as being too 'avant-garde' where it was a classic example of a jack of all trades, master of none. The whole ship was supposed to have swappable 'mission packs' that would let it do anything while being stealthy, fast, cheap, modern etc... The article has a very pro-Zumwalt / Bath Iron works (mentioned several times) spin to it. The EM Briefcase was written by the president of the company cited in the article (Metatech). It sounds a lot like PG's suits essay.

georgeecollins 12y ago

Before WW2 the French had invested more in fortifications than the Germans did in tanks. Unfortunately, tanks were what mattered. The US may have the best fighter planes and the best destroyers, but maybe what is going to really matter is the quality and quantity of missiles and drones. Not that anyone really knows..

ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
The Zumwalt isn't lacking for missiles, and since when are we in a drone deficit?
hga 12y ago
The French and their allies also invested more in tanks than the Germans, they had about 1/5 more in the Battle of France. Also per Wikipedia, they had the most after the Soviet Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_France#Inter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_France#Inter_War The content at that link does a pretty good job of explaining why this numerical and in many respects qualitative advantage did them little good. As for your latter point, from where will those missiles and drones be launched, and for the latter, recovered???
a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
Launching missiles and drones is the whole point of the new destroyer platforms.

moron4hire 12y ago

The USS Zumwalt will be commanded by Cpt. Kirk. I not kidding, his first name is even James. James A. Kirk: http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/ddg1000/Pages/bio1.aspx#.U_3E_PldWSo http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/ddg1000/Pages/bio1.aspx#.U...