4 ms·

Yes, it's a common metonymy, but whether its use is valid or misleading for no good reason depends on the context in my opinion. If somebody said "let's hope t

by V-2 12y ago

Yes, it's a common metonymy, but whether its use is valid or misleading for no good reason depends on the context in my opinion. If somebody said "let's hope this law spreads throughout America", you wouldn't assume they meant just the US, would you? Calling the United States "America" is often handy, but it's sort of a sloppy language all in all. Personally I rather avoid it if ambiguity is likely. People are also often referring to the United Kingdom as "England" (disregarding the existence of Scotland and Wales) and while it's probably fine as a mental shortcut, it can make you misunderstood or get on somebody's nerves once in a while. And that's a fact of life, too. Disclaimer: I'm European / EU citizen / Polish.

wnoise 12y ago
In "Let's hope marijuana legalization spreads throughout America", I would indeed assume they meant the U.S.
Perseids 12y ago
> People are also often referring to the United Kingdom as "England" (disregarding the existence of Scotland and Wales) More to the point, when I use "England" instead of "United Kingdom" I disregard the separation and jurisdictional peculiarities of Scotland, Wales and England and refer to the whole as "England". As neither I nor the great majority of people in my social circles know how their government works precisely and what their national identity multitude is about, the linguistic separation seems mood anyway. That's not to say that it is actually unimportant, though.
- V-2 12y ago
  That's what it's like from your point of view, sure, but I'm kind of taking the point of view of someone who values Scottish (or Welsh) national identity and for them being labeled as "England" even for the sake of convenience could be a bit of a slap (and again, not that it's your intention, obviously). For what it's worth: roughly 10 years ago, when Poland was about to join the EU, Yes supporters used a slogan "Yes, I'm an European" [and thus I vote for entering the EU] in the pre-referendum campaign. I would see this slogan (consciously playing on the Eastern complex, to be sure) as somewhat offensive in its coarseness. What was it really saying? 1000 years of European history and heritage doesn't matter and you are disqualified from being an European if you don't support joining the EU? :)
  - Perseids 12y ago
    > I would see this slogan (consciously playing on the Eastern complex, to be sure) as somewhat offensive in its coarseness. What was it really saying? 1000 years of European history and heritage doesn't matter and you are disqualified from being an European if you don't support joining the EU? :) I'd see the slogan in a more positive light: After all, we are all Europeans and we have enough common heritage to work together. That's what I associate with the EU, the wish to overcome our historic differences and build a political union that is up to our globalized world, something strong enough to defend the values we share. And also the dream to live in a more united world. For example, when I worked in Switzerland for half a year, there were all those little things that acutely showed me that I was a second class resident. In other EU countries I've got more of a feeling of having a right to be there, not being just tolerated or granted a favor. Maybe as a German I'm also a little bit insensitive to national identities. Having a glaring historical example in everyone's mind of what certain kinds of nationalism and patriotism can lead to has sure driven that kind of "belonging somewhere" out of me. Foremost I see myself as a European and as member of certain online communities that don't exist geographically and only then as a German.
rmc 12y ago
> If somebody said "let's hope this law spreads throughout America", you wouldn't assume they meant just the US, would you? Yes I would. Irish person here. Native English speaker.
TeMPOraL 12y ago
I agree. Disclaimer: also European / EU / Polish citizen :).
Dylan16807 12y ago
>If somebody said "let's hope this law spreads throughout America", you wouldn't assume they meant just the US, would you? That depends on whether the law is federal or not. But devoid of context I would expect someone to use 'the Americas' if they're talking about both continents, not 'America'.

by V-2 12y ago

wnoise 12y ago

In "Let's hope marijuana legalization spreads throughout America", I would indeed assume they meant the U.S.

Perseids 12y ago

> People are also often referring to the United Kingdom as "England" (disregarding the existence of Scotland and Wales) More to the point, when I use "England" instead of "United Kingdom" I disregard the separation and jurisdictional peculiarities of Scotland, Wales and England and refer to the whole as "England". As neither I nor the great majority of people in my social circles know how their government works precisely and what their national identity multitude is about, the linguistic separation seems mood anyway. That's not to say that it is actually unimportant, though.

V-2 12y ago
That's what it's like from your point of view, sure, but I'm kind of taking the point of view of someone who values Scottish (or Welsh) national identity and for them being labeled as "England" even for the sake of convenience could be a bit of a slap (and again, not that it's your intention, obviously). For what it's worth: roughly 10 years ago, when Poland was about to join the EU, Yes supporters used a slogan "Yes, I'm an European" [and thus I vote for entering the EU] in the pre-referendum campaign. I would see this slogan (consciously playing on the Eastern complex, to be sure) as somewhat offensive in its coarseness. What was it really saying? 1000 years of European history and heritage doesn't matter and you are disqualified from being an European if you don't support joining the EU? :)
- Perseids 12y ago
  > I would see this slogan (consciously playing on the Eastern complex, to be sure) as somewhat offensive in its coarseness. What was it really saying? 1000 years of European history and heritage doesn't matter and you are disqualified from being an European if you don't support joining the EU? :) I'd see the slogan in a more positive light: After all, we are all Europeans and we have enough common heritage to work together. That's what I associate with the EU, the wish to overcome our historic differences and build a political union that is up to our globalized world, something strong enough to defend the values we share. And also the dream to live in a more united world. For example, when I worked in Switzerland for half a year, there were all those little things that acutely showed me that I was a second class resident. In other EU countries I've got more of a feeling of having a right to be there, not being just tolerated or granted a favor. Maybe as a German I'm also a little bit insensitive to national identities. Having a glaring historical example in everyone's mind of what certain kinds of nationalism and patriotism can lead to has sure driven that kind of "belonging somewhere" out of me. Foremost I see myself as a European and as member of certain online communities that don't exist geographically and only then as a German.

rmc 12y ago

> If somebody said "let's hope this law spreads throughout America", you wouldn't assume they meant just the US, would you? Yes I would. Irish person here. Native English speaker.

TeMPOraL 12y ago

I agree. Disclaimer: also European / EU / Polish citizen :).

Dylan16807 12y ago

>If somebody said "let's hope this law spreads throughout America", you wouldn't assume they meant just the US, would you? That depends on whether the law is federal or not. But devoid of context I would expect someone to use 'the Americas' if they're talking about both continents, not 'America'.