7 ms·

Is it expensive relative to your income?

by pkaye 12y ago

valarauca1 12y ago
No. Australia is more expense then the USA when it comes to everything. Rent, grocery, internet, etc. Australian consumers also have on average less buying power then American citizens. [1] The medium household income for both countries is nearly identical. $30,932 (USA) vs $30,077 (AUS) ~2.76% [2] So income is ~3% higher in America, but rent is ~46% more expensive in Australia (Groceries are 32.5%). I would say its based on factors other then average income. [1] Numbeo.com [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income
- tnorthcutt 12y ago
  Australian consumers also have on average less buying power then American citizens. So then it is expensive relative to your income, is it not?
- adventured 12y ago
  I looked at the wiki entry but something isn't right about that. I don't understand where they're getting the $30k figure. The median household income in the US is over $53,000 - not $30,932. I think it's much higher in Australia as well (for example they list nominal median at $47k on the wiki). http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr12-02.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr12-02.pdf http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html Even the chart graphic at the bottom right of that wikipedia entry shows $50k+ as the proper median income level: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/US_real_median_household_income_1967_-_2011.PNG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/US_real_...
  - lern_too_spel 12y ago
    It's equivalised. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalisation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalisation
  - twoodfin 12y ago
    The Wikipedia table is apparently median household equivalent adult income. This is the somewhat obscure way the OECD accounts for varying household sizes amongst compared nations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalisation You're right that the U.S. median household income is north of $50K.
- jacques_chester 12y ago
  Australian figures and American figures aren't comparable. Australia is one of the most urbanised populations in the world; in the USA cost-of-living figures are dragged down because an enormous bulk of the population is scattered across cheap locations.
bane 12y ago
Australia is shockingly expensive the first time you visit there. Normal economics just don't seem to be at play. It took me a long time to put my thumb on what Australia is like and it wasn't until I watched the show "Fringe" and saw the alternate universe (with the Airships and the Twin Towers) that it finally struck me, it's like an alternate universe America. Everything is just like the U.S., except for some weird little details. Big cars, lots of open land, cowboy analogs (drovers), purpose built capital designed by a foreigner, densely packed East Coast, East Coast vs. West Coast rivalry. And then suddenly it's not: driving on the left, everything is overpriced, egg yolks are a different color, etc. I remember seeing real estate listing for some really remote housing in some dying gold town somewhere. Like 2 bedroom bungalows with no property. And they're priced at what you'd expect to find in a nearby suburb of Sydney (except the housing in the suburbs around Sydney is ludicrously expensive). While anywhere else in the world people would basically be paying you to take the title so they could get the hell out of there. The local markets in Australia are just weird. note I live in one of the most expensive housing markets in the U.S. so I'm used to seeing high prices. But even single bedroom apartments in Sydney suburbs rent out at prices you can get entire houses for in similar geographic regions around my area. You'd think the exact opposite would be true. In almost any other part of the world with plentiful land and low population, you end up with cheap housing, while in Australia that doesn't seem to be true at all.
- stimut 12y ago
  Australia is generally ridiculously expensive, that is true, but there is usually a reason (not necessarily a good one) why "local markets in Australia are just weird." > I remember seeing real estate listing for some really remote housing in some dying gold town somewhere. Without further details, I can't say whether your assessment of "dying" is correct or not, but it is true that towns that have mining operations experience explosive growth (and contractions) in housing prices. Local governments in general don't want to allow a lot more house building, because in 5, 10 or 20 years time when the mine closes down, having all those empty houses causes a ghost town effect where the town really will die (the towns almost always existed before the mines, and they want them to exist after the mine leaves too). That means people pay north of $1 million dollars for a fibro shack. Mining companies will hire the local showgrounds long term, so that they can build a tent city for their workers (who use the showground toilet and shower facilities etc). Local house prices will fluctuate by hundreds of thousands of dollars in days, based upon financial news from the mining companies about whether they are liking to build/expand/close the local mining operation. Yes, it's weird. As for Sydney specifically, it is actually very space constrained. With the ocean on one side, and the Blue Mountains on the other side, there actually isn't a lot of room for expansion. You are correct that in general there is a lot of undeveloped coast line though (inland is basically inhospitable). It's just not where the jobs are.
stimut 12y ago
Depends on your profession. Others have noted that on average, the answer is no, but without calculating the stats, I would expect the lower wage earners to be better off in Australia (especially when costs for healthcare and other services are near zero). A few years ago, Australians were the wealthiest people in the World (they slipped to number 2 last year). This is private assets, nothing to do with income, government income and expenditure etc. What does this show? Not much really, just pointing out that statistics is hard, and if you don't like what something shows, then change the metric until you find the news you want. In other words, take everything that people are saying (including me) with a grain of salt.

Is it expensive relative to your income?

by pkaye 12y ago

Is it expensive relative to your income?

No. Australia is more expense then the USA when it comes to everything. Rent, grocery, internet, etc. Australian consumers also have on average less buying power then American citizens. [1] The medium household income for both countries is nearly identical. $30,932 (USA) vs $30,077 (AUS) ~2.76% [2] So income is ~3% higher in America, but rent is ~46% more expensive in Australia (Groceries are 32.5%). I would say its based on factors other then average income. [1] Numbeo.com [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

tnorthcutt 12y ago
Australian consumers also have on average less buying power then American citizens. So then it is expensive relative to your income, is it not?
adventured 12y ago
I looked at the wiki entry but something isn't right about that. I don't understand where they're getting the $30k figure. The median household income in the US is over $53,000 - not $30,932. I think it's much higher in Australia as well (for example they list nominal median at $47k on the wiki). http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr12-02.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr12-02.pdf http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html Even the chart graphic at the bottom right of that wikipedia entry shows $50k+ as the proper median income level: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/US_real_median_household_income_1967_-_2011.PNG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/US_real_...
- lern_too_spel 12y ago
  It's equivalised. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalisation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalisation
- twoodfin 12y ago
  The Wikipedia table is apparently median household equivalent adult income. This is the somewhat obscure way the OECD accounts for varying household sizes amongst compared nations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalisation You're right that the U.S. median household income is north of $50K.
jacques_chester 12y ago
Australian figures and American figures aren't comparable. Australia is one of the most urbanised populations in the world; in the USA cost-of-living figures are dragged down because an enormous bulk of the population is scattered across cheap locations.

bane 12y ago

Australia is shockingly expensive the first time you visit there. Normal economics just don't seem to be at play. It took me a long time to put my thumb on what Australia is like and it wasn't until I watched the show "Fringe" and saw the alternate universe (with the Airships and the Twin Towers) that it finally struck me, it's like an alternate universe America. Everything is just like the U.S., except for some weird little details. Big cars, lots of open land, cowboy analogs (drovers), purpose built capital designed by a foreigner, densely packed East Coast, East Coast vs. West Coast rivalry. And then suddenly it's not: driving on the left, everything is overpriced, egg yolks are a different color, etc. I remember seeing real estate listing for some really remote housing in some dying gold town somewhere. Like 2 bedroom bungalows with no property. And they're priced at what you'd expect to find in a nearby suburb of Sydney (except the housing in the suburbs around Sydney is ludicrously expensive). While anywhere else in the world people would basically be paying you to take the title so they could get the hell out of there. The local markets in Australia are just weird. note I live in one of the most expensive housing markets in the U.S. so I'm used to seeing high prices. But even single bedroom apartments in Sydney suburbs rent out at prices you can get entire houses for in similar geographic regions around my area. You'd think the exact opposite would be true. In almost any other part of the world with plentiful land and low population, you end up with cheap housing, while in Australia that doesn't seem to be true at all.

stimut 12y ago
Australia is generally ridiculously expensive, that is true, but there is usually a reason (not necessarily a good one) why "local markets in Australia are just weird." > I remember seeing real estate listing for some really remote housing in some dying gold town somewhere. Without further details, I can't say whether your assessment of "dying" is correct or not, but it is true that towns that have mining operations experience explosive growth (and contractions) in housing prices. Local governments in general don't want to allow a lot more house building, because in 5, 10 or 20 years time when the mine closes down, having all those empty houses causes a ghost town effect where the town really will die (the towns almost always existed before the mines, and they want them to exist after the mine leaves too). That means people pay north of $1 million dollars for a fibro shack. Mining companies will hire the local showgrounds long term, so that they can build a tent city for their workers (who use the showground toilet and shower facilities etc). Local house prices will fluctuate by hundreds of thousands of dollars in days, based upon financial news from the mining companies about whether they are liking to build/expand/close the local mining operation. Yes, it's weird. As for Sydney specifically, it is actually very space constrained. With the ocean on one side, and the Blue Mountains on the other side, there actually isn't a lot of room for expansion. You are correct that in general there is a lot of undeveloped coast line though (inland is basically inhospitable). It's just not where the jobs are.

stimut 12y ago

Depends on your profession. Others have noted that on average, the answer is no, but without calculating the stats, I would expect the lower wage earners to be better off in Australia (especially when costs for healthcare and other services are near zero). A few years ago, Australians were the wealthiest people in the World (they slipped to number 2 last year). This is private assets, nothing to do with income, government income and expenditure etc. What does this show? Not much really, just pointing out that statistics is hard, and if you don't like what something shows, then change the metric until you find the news you want. In other words, take everything that people are saying (including me) with a grain of salt.