4 ms·

"However, you should take into consideration that living expenses in Norway are higher than in many other countries." I don't have a job right now, no savings,

by jokoon 12y ago

"However, you should take into consideration that living expenses in Norway are higher than in many other countries." I don't have a job right now, no savings, 29 years old, and paperwork bore me. There are dozens of those "programs", and I don't want to spend one entire week sorting it out to discover I can't afford to just live over there. I want to go there no question asked, to work, not to study.

alkonaut 12y ago
Try Stockholm, it has a huge tech sector and you can go there to work as an EU citizen, no questions asked. You can't afford to live in stockholm either without a job of course, but programmers get jobs quite easily if they speak English, and salaries are decent.
- aianus 12y ago
  How much is 'decent'? And how much is rent?
  - alkonaut 12y ago
    As everywhere salaries vary wildly (as they should), but an uneducated "scriptkid" without experience probably makes EUR2500/mo, a 5yr exp collage educated developer makes EUR3500-5500 and top devs of course make much more than that in some industries. It all depends. "Rent" is pretty much unheard of since getting an apartment to rent in central stockholm is impossible due to rent control, so if you move to stockholm to work in tech you most likely sublet someone's apartment at EUR750-2000/mo depending on size and location. A single bedroom apt in central Stockholm is ~1000.
- tormeh 12y ago
  Actually, I think it's just as easy to get into Norway as an EU citizen because Norway is in the EEC. It's confusing, I know, but the freedom of movement thing is applicable here as well.
  - alkonaut 12y ago
    I'd think so too, but not sure about exact terms and amounts of paperwork. Oslo has higher rents and prices but also higher wages and lower taxes. I think he size of the tech/programming job market is probably quite a bit larger in Stockholm though. So if the advice is for developers only, I'd recommend Stockholm over Oslo. For many other jobs it would be the other way around.
sanoli 12y ago
Really, you want to go live and work legally on a different nation, but you don't want to spend some days on paperwork, you just want someone to call you and say 'you're brilliant! Come over we got everything sorted out!' I hope you really are brilliant. Hmmm... since this is HN and I've seen this before, let me ask: did you win the Putnam?
- jokoon 12y ago
  > you just want someone to call you and say 'you're brilliant! Come over we got everything sorted out!' Where did you read I said that ? getting hired doesn't mean I'm a genius. I means they need me and are ready to hire me and maybe help me move there. stop with the misconceptions, I'm not narcissistic. I'm just saying I don't have savings, so I can't put myself in debt and risk going there and not getting a job.
CalRobert 12y ago
As you can imagine, "we want to let anyone from anywhere who can't be bothered to do a bit of paperwork come here and work, no questions asked" is not a policy that resonates with voters.
- jokoon 12y ago
  should I care about voters ? I don't want to go there for a vacation, if there are job offers which are not filled, maybe they might want to get people from other countries.
  - CalRobert 12y ago
    Yes, because voters determine immigration policy by endorsing those politicians with whom they agree.
CalRobert 12y ago
Wait, you're French? As in, you're an EU citizen??? Go there. Find a hackerspace. Meet people. Show off your skills. You should be OK. If not, you can go back to France. I would have killed to have your ability to just go anywhere in the EU a few years ago; even now I'm ecstatic just being able to work in Ireland. Sometimes life involves tasks that are very slightly unpleasant, like paperwork. You might find that learning a tolerance for this minimal degree of inconvenience will yield benefits down the road.
- jokoon 12y ago
  > go there I don't have money to throw away at a round trip to Norway, not to mention a place to stay for 1 week or two. What do you mean "show off your skills" ? I'm not an entertainer... I have no skills in PR and selling myself. > hackerspace Is a hackerspace going to get me a job ? > Sometimes life involves tasks that are very slightly unpleasant, like paperwork. The task of getting a job in norway is going to be paved with a lot of obstacles. I'm ready to move out, go there and do interviews, but if nobody can promise me to hire me before I actually have a place to stay, I won't move there to not find a job and come back with debt. How do I really promote my project of seeking work in norway all by myself, while I live in france ? I already speak english, so that's a plus... note: I have no job experience.
  - CalRobert 12y ago
    Well, your current approach is "give up". I suggest a different tack. It would be easy to say you're just trolling but I suspect you're possibly just depressed. Going to a hackerspace and meeting people in the industry and showing you have a genuine interest in the field quite often WILL get you a job, actually, or even better it will give you something to work on and make your own business, if you care about it. I wish I had your citizenship; I'd love to start my own business (brewery, probably) but my current visa forbids it. Nobody is going to promise you a job in Norway. You have to go make it effing happen. I don't mean to be vulgar, but to express that if you want it badly, if it damn near hurts not to have it, you'll make it happen. At this point you don't seem to know what you want. Even if you have no job experience, you could at least have project experience. Show off what you've done with Arduino, or open source, or painting, or skateboarding, or radio, or whatever. (This is a tech focused forum but hey, skills and drive come in many shapes)

by jokoon 12y ago

alkonaut 12y ago

Try Stockholm, it has a huge tech sector and you can go there to work as an EU citizen, no questions asked. You can't afford to live in stockholm either without a job of course, but programmers get jobs quite easily if they speak English, and salaries are decent.

aianus 12y ago
How much is 'decent'? And how much is rent?
- alkonaut 12y ago
  As everywhere salaries vary wildly (as they should), but an uneducated "scriptkid" without experience probably makes EUR2500/mo, a 5yr exp collage educated developer makes EUR3500-5500 and top devs of course make much more than that in some industries. It all depends. "Rent" is pretty much unheard of since getting an apartment to rent in central stockholm is impossible due to rent control, so if you move to stockholm to work in tech you most likely sublet someone's apartment at EUR750-2000/mo depending on size and location. A single bedroom apt in central Stockholm is ~1000.
tormeh 12y ago
Actually, I think it's just as easy to get into Norway as an EU citizen because Norway is in the EEC. It's confusing, I know, but the freedom of movement thing is applicable here as well.
- alkonaut 12y ago
  I'd think so too, but not sure about exact terms and amounts of paperwork. Oslo has higher rents and prices but also higher wages and lower taxes. I think he size of the tech/programming job market is probably quite a bit larger in Stockholm though. So if the advice is for developers only, I'd recommend Stockholm over Oslo. For many other jobs it would be the other way around.

sanoli 12y ago

Really, you want to go live and work legally on a different nation, but you don't want to spend some days on paperwork, you just want someone to call you and say 'you're brilliant! Come over we got everything sorted out!' I hope you really are brilliant. Hmmm... since this is HN and I've seen this before, let me ask: did you win the Putnam?

jokoon 12y ago
> you just want someone to call you and say 'you're brilliant! Come over we got everything sorted out!' Where did you read I said that ? getting hired doesn't mean I'm a genius. I means they need me and are ready to hire me and maybe help me move there. stop with the misconceptions, I'm not narcissistic. I'm just saying I don't have savings, so I can't put myself in debt and risk going there and not getting a job.

CalRobert 12y ago

As you can imagine, "we want to let anyone from anywhere who can't be bothered to do a bit of paperwork come here and work, no questions asked" is not a policy that resonates with voters.

jokoon 12y ago
should I care about voters ? I don't want to go there for a vacation, if there are job offers which are not filled, maybe they might want to get people from other countries.
- CalRobert 12y ago
  Yes, because voters determine immigration policy by endorsing those politicians with whom they agree.

CalRobert 12y ago

Wait, you're French? As in, you're an EU citizen??? Go there. Find a hackerspace. Meet people. Show off your skills. You should be OK. If not, you can go back to France. I would have killed to have your ability to just go anywhere in the EU a few years ago; even now I'm ecstatic just being able to work in Ireland. Sometimes life involves tasks that are very slightly unpleasant, like paperwork. You might find that learning a tolerance for this minimal degree of inconvenience will yield benefits down the road.

jokoon 12y ago
> go there I don't have money to throw away at a round trip to Norway, not to mention a place to stay for 1 week or two. What do you mean "show off your skills" ? I'm not an entertainer... I have no skills in PR and selling myself. > hackerspace Is a hackerspace going to get me a job ? > Sometimes life involves tasks that are very slightly unpleasant, like paperwork. The task of getting a job in norway is going to be paved with a lot of obstacles. I'm ready to move out, go there and do interviews, but if nobody can promise me to hire me before I actually have a place to stay, I won't move there to not find a job and come back with debt. How do I really promote my project of seeking work in norway all by myself, while I live in france ? I already speak english, so that's a plus... note: I have no job experience.
- CalRobert 12y ago
  Well, your current approach is "give up". I suggest a different tack. It would be easy to say you're just trolling but I suspect you're possibly just depressed. Going to a hackerspace and meeting people in the industry and showing you have a genuine interest in the field quite often WILL get you a job, actually, or even better it will give you something to work on and make your own business, if you care about it. I wish I had your citizenship; I'd love to start my own business (brewery, probably) but my current visa forbids it. Nobody is going to promise you a job in Norway. You have to go make it effing happen. I don't mean to be vulgar, but to express that if you want it badly, if it damn near hurts not to have it, you'll make it happen. At this point you don't seem to know what you want. Even if you have no job experience, you could at least have project experience. Show off what you've done with Arduino, or open source, or painting, or skateboarding, or radio, or whatever. (This is a tech focused forum but hey, skills and drive come in many shapes)