8 ms·

Just back from Boom Festival in Portugal, where personal drug use is decriminalized. There was almost no police/security at the gates or inside the festival, a

Just back from Boom Festival in Portugal, where personal drug use is decriminalized. There was almost no police/security at the gates or inside the festival, although selling drugs was not tolerated (eg. people selling on the festival grounds were kindly asked to leave). There were 42.000 people from 152 countries and most of them used some kind of substance or plant there (marijuana being the most abundantly and openly used). As a consequence (or despite this?), this was one of the safest and warmest places I have ever seen. Instead of police watching everyone, there were a number of premises: there was a drug info stand, were one could go and test their drugs. The queue was quite long there, people stood 2+ hours in the queue to test their substances. Then there was the Kosmic Care, a place were 20+ psychologists, doctors and shamans would bring people having 'bad' trips back to earth. They had 70 'bad' trippers in the first night alone and they were expecting a lot more on the full moon night. I've spoken to the psychologists there (out of curiosity, not because of a bad trip :) ) and they told me that that the majority of bad trips were caused by people taking 'fake' LSD. In fact, she said, 50% of the LSD people tested was not actually LSD but some designer substance with unknown consequences and effects. Other reasons for bad trips - was people mixing substances or taknig too much (usually young, unexperienced people) and people having prior mental illness. I asked a guy there, how can one prevent people from having a bad trip again and the answer was 'well, after such an experience, most people grow up pretty quickly and it's unlikely they would take these substances lightly the next time'. In most countries, these young people would end up in a hospital and then get arrested and possibly spend time in jail. The war on drugs has caused a lot of suffering and has done very little to reduce drug use or addiction, yet it costs billions every year. Protugal's approach to drugs is a great example of how the negative effects of drug use can be handled with minimal costs and lead to positive outcomes in drug users. All it takes is a bit of acceptance and common sense.

lifeisstillgood 12y ago
Yes ... But absolutely everything you say could apply to alcohol during say Prohibition. Look people taking the moonshine to be tested, people enjoying booze sensibly ... We have a legalised and fairly sane alcohol policy in most countries, we can hardly hope to have a better policy and set up for any other drug, and yet alcohol is still a devastating blight on many lives. Yes, stop this crazy war on drugs, but don't expect some nirvana to appear - people with a variety of mental and personality problems are not going to "grow up". They still need to be dealt with - and we are unforgiving of mental illness and have barely moved past the "cut it off and cauterise the wound" phase of treatment. The war on drugs is mostly masking a war on mental health.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >We have a legalised and fairly sane alcohol policy in most countries, we can hardly hope to have a better policy and set up for any other drug, and yet alcohol is still a devastating blight on many lives You don't just need to have a "sane policy". You need to have a sane culture. For one, a culture that doesn't treat alcohol as something necessary for having fun (e.g binge drinking on weekends, etc), but as something social you can have while eating with friends, etc. Second, a culture (society) that doesn't cripple people, produce mass stress and depression, etc so that they take it to alcohol and drugs. As long as you don't have those, there will always be people taking it to alcoholism. Heck, even with those you'll still have some people (but much less). But then again people can destroy themselves in 200 other ways too, if they are so inclined (from over- and under-eating to straight suicide).
  - untothebreach 12y ago
    Couldn't agree with this more. It seems that too often we look to policy to solve problems that really need to be addressed at a lower level. The problem with that is that changing the law is easy, when compared with changing the culture.
  - lifeisstillgood 12y ago
    Yes policy is not the right word, but we have many cultures around drinking alcohol, and sayin that some of them are the wrong culture and this the cause of trouble is either just labelling those of that culture as "troublemakers" which just leads downwards, or a more enlightened question is why are those cultures toxic - which tends to lead back to mental illness, depravation, lack of opportunity and lack of ... A culture that values more ... And we are back again. Humans are a problem.
  - lukifer 12y ago
    I'm reminded of the story of Rat Park: http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/ http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/
    - 12y ago
awildone 12y ago
Portugal is certainly one step in the right direction. I lived and worked there for three months and it's all very relaxed. Cops don't really care about people rolling joints or even doing lines of coke in public if there's a party (and if you are in Portugal, there will be). Quietly puffing a joint while walking down the street in the middle of the day is cool as well. I actually never saw the cops interfere with anything while I was there, even though there are cops everywhere. There is one more thing about Portugal and drugs that needs to be said though: never, ever buy anything being offered to you. And you will be offered drugs ten times a day while just walking down the street. It's all fake, they're just out to scam you and steal your stuff, and they're pretty good at it. Just say no, thank you and go ask the cool kids hanging out in Martim Moniz instead. Good hash, coke and heroin is easily obtainable and cheap.
- awildone 12y ago
  Assuming Lisbon of course, but I guess that's where most people end up on their first visit to the country...
- tomp 12y ago
  That's the problem with decriminalizing drugs, really. It's still very much a grey market, with no business backing, no brands, no quality control. Drugs have to be fully legalized. I think what some US states are doing (opening marijuana for businesses, enabling them to build a brand/reputation) is the way forward (but, of course, for all kinds of drugs instead).
- stonemetal 12y ago
  >even though there are cops everywhere. ... you will be offered drugs ten times a day while just walking down the street. It's all fake, they're just out to scam you and steal your stuff, and they're pretty good at it. That is a step in the right direction? What was it like before beaten by the cops and robbed 10 times a day?
  - warfangle 12y ago
    In 1999, Portugal had the highest rate of HIV amongst IV drug users in the EU. There were 2,000 new cases a year - in a country of 10 million. Almost half of new cases were among IV drug users. Gotta understand something about Portugal: 'til '74, it was a dictatorship. Then it was a military junta. It finally became a democracy in '76. Then, a little under a decade later, when cheap heroin flooded the world. The US saw it in the 80's too. But it was much, much worse there. > What was it like before[,] beaten by the cops and robbed 10 times a day? Had nothing to do with that. It was about 'the population has an endemic drug problem leading to widespread ennui and HIV/AIDs, and even some of the harshest drug laws in Europe are doing absolutely nil to quell it.'
JonLim 12y ago
I think they had a drug testing booth in Barcelona when I was there last summer for Sónar, and there was a massive line up of people. Not sure what Spain's outlook on drug use is, but it was rather refreshing to see that level of education and emphasis on safety compared to what I've seen in festivals in Toronto and NYC.
- ollysb 12y ago
  From my experience in Granada it's pretty relaxed. I recall going to a Granada football game(they're in the top division), with a policeman standing on the steps next to my seat there was some guys smoking some joints right in front of us. They may as well have been drinking a beer for all the attention he was giving them.
josefresco 12y ago
Running a a drug friendly "festival" and a state (as in the United States) are two completely different realities. I'm welcome your anecdotal evidence but don't find it at all relevant to the topic of how a state should handle the legal and health consequences of heroin abuse. A bunch of party-goers doing recreational drugs couldn't be farther from the realities of heroin addiction in a rural population.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- david_b 12y ago
  Your comment is slightly off-the-mark as his comment wasn't merely about a festival, but also about his opinion on Portugals drug policy. As your comment implies that you aren't familiar with said policy, you may wish to recap Portugals efforts in drug decriminalization: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060-2.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-d... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal While it is apparently hard to say how effective these efforts were, it is quite easy to see that the neo-prohibitionists worst nightsmares have yet to happene in Portugal.
- smcl 12y ago
  Remember that this is not particular to that festival in Portugal, but to the entirety of Portugal
- DanHulton 12y ago
  You do realize that a great deal of the problems associated with heroin addiction come from the very fact that it is illegal? The crime, the marginalization from society, the lack of access to health care or rehabilitation clinics, these things all make the addiction far, far worse than if we treated this whole thing a little saner and more compassionately.
  - justicezyx 12y ago
    No, I do not realize that "a great deal of the problems associated with heroin addiction come from the very fact that it is illegal".
DAddYE 12y ago
Switzerland (not in the UE) was one of the first countries where some drugs were permitted (like weed). Although (IIRC around 2000) they stopped. Another country Nederland is well know in Europe for being very freedom with drugs. In Nederland in the latest few years they had several calls to put drugs on ban. I visited Switzerland hundreds of times (it's like 15 miles where was my house) I have been in Amsterdam 4 times. What I can say is that "citizens" were kinda sick and seems is not a thing anymore. Although is still a big big business economy for "tourists". I think this thing of legalizing light drugs in america is like tobacco in 60-80', it was cool, trendy out of the scheme, but suddenly... things changed so much that I bet there are less tobacco smokers in California than the smallest town of Portugal.
galfarragem 12y ago
Portugal positive approach on drug problem was just the natural reaction to the collapse we had in late 80's and early-mid 90's. Politics claim it was a result of their policies. That is BS. In the end, government policies had very low impact. The only successful policy (on AIDS control, not on drugs) was the free syringe exchange at pharmacies. The real problem was solved based on the lazy approach of "laissez-faire" (with consumption decriminalization) like a lot of stuff here (for the good and ill), "letting the market solve it": During the 90's the drug problem was huge! As an example, in my home town, that generation doesn't exist (people born during 70's). Almost all men (and some women) from that generation were involved on hard drugs (heroine). A large percentage of them went to prison and didn't come back, another large percentage of them died drugs related. Kids from that time (including myself) saw the dark side of being on drugs seated in first row: it was their neighbors and older brothers, not a stupid tale on TV. Being on drugs since that moment was not cool anymore. Slowly, young people mentalities improved to "being on hard drugs is not cool". Nowadays, the sentiment is more mixed, hard drugs are not anymore seen as a boogeyman: some forgot what happened, others didn't see it with their eyes. Anyway, I don't think we will come back to 90's again. We were coming from a dictatorship, young generations wanted freedom and there were no visible bad examples of drug addiction. Times are different now, drugs are also cheaper, lesser need to be a petty criminal and involve all society like before.

lifeisstillgood 12y ago

Yes ... But absolutely everything you say could apply to alcohol during say Prohibition. Look people taking the moonshine to be tested, people enjoying booze sensibly ... We have a legalised and fairly sane alcohol policy in most countries, we can hardly hope to have a better policy and set up for any other drug, and yet alcohol is still a devastating blight on many lives. Yes, stop this crazy war on drugs, but don't expect some nirvana to appear - people with a variety of mental and personality problems are not going to "grow up". They still need to be dealt with - and we are unforgiving of mental illness and have barely moved past the "cut it off and cauterise the wound" phase of treatment. The war on drugs is mostly masking a war on mental health.

coldtea 12y ago
>We have a legalised and fairly sane alcohol policy in most countries, we can hardly hope to have a better policy and set up for any other drug, and yet alcohol is still a devastating blight on many lives You don't just need to have a "sane policy". You need to have a sane culture. For one, a culture that doesn't treat alcohol as something necessary for having fun (e.g binge drinking on weekends, etc), but as something social you can have while eating with friends, etc. Second, a culture (society) that doesn't cripple people, produce mass stress and depression, etc so that they take it to alcohol and drugs. As long as you don't have those, there will always be people taking it to alcoholism. Heck, even with those you'll still have some people (but much less). But then again people can destroy themselves in 200 other ways too, if they are so inclined (from over- and under-eating to straight suicide).
- untothebreach 12y ago
  Couldn't agree with this more. It seems that too often we look to policy to solve problems that really need to be addressed at a lower level. The problem with that is that changing the law is easy, when compared with changing the culture.
- lifeisstillgood 12y ago
  Yes policy is not the right word, but we have many cultures around drinking alcohol, and sayin that some of them are the wrong culture and this the cause of trouble is either just labelling those of that culture as "troublemakers" which just leads downwards, or a more enlightened question is why are those cultures toxic - which tends to lead back to mental illness, depravation, lack of opportunity and lack of ... A culture that values more ... And we are back again. Humans are a problem.
- lukifer 12y ago
  I'm reminded of the story of Rat Park: http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/ http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/
  - 12y ago

awildone 12y ago

Portugal is certainly one step in the right direction. I lived and worked there for three months and it's all very relaxed. Cops don't really care about people rolling joints or even doing lines of coke in public if there's a party (and if you are in Portugal, there will be). Quietly puffing a joint while walking down the street in the middle of the day is cool as well. I actually never saw the cops interfere with anything while I was there, even though there are cops everywhere. There is one more thing about Portugal and drugs that needs to be said though: never, ever buy anything being offered to you. And you will be offered drugs ten times a day while just walking down the street. It's all fake, they're just out to scam you and steal your stuff, and they're pretty good at it. Just say no, thank you and go ask the cool kids hanging out in Martim Moniz instead. Good hash, coke and heroin is easily obtainable and cheap.

awildone 12y ago
Assuming Lisbon of course, but I guess that's where most people end up on their first visit to the country...
tomp 12y ago
That's the problem with decriminalizing drugs, really. It's still very much a grey market, with no business backing, no brands, no quality control. Drugs have to be fully legalized. I think what some US states are doing (opening marijuana for businesses, enabling them to build a brand/reputation) is the way forward (but, of course, for all kinds of drugs instead).
stonemetal 12y ago
>even though there are cops everywhere. ... you will be offered drugs ten times a day while just walking down the street. It's all fake, they're just out to scam you and steal your stuff, and they're pretty good at it. That is a step in the right direction? What was it like before beaten by the cops and robbed 10 times a day?
- warfangle 12y ago
  In 1999, Portugal had the highest rate of HIV amongst IV drug users in the EU. There were 2,000 new cases a year - in a country of 10 million. Almost half of new cases were among IV drug users. Gotta understand something about Portugal: 'til '74, it was a dictatorship. Then it was a military junta. It finally became a democracy in '76. Then, a little under a decade later, when cheap heroin flooded the world. The US saw it in the 80's too. But it was much, much worse there. > What was it like before[,] beaten by the cops and robbed 10 times a day? Had nothing to do with that. It was about 'the population has an endemic drug problem leading to widespread ennui and HIV/AIDs, and even some of the harshest drug laws in Europe are doing absolutely nil to quell it.'

JonLim 12y ago

I think they had a drug testing booth in Barcelona when I was there last summer for Sónar, and there was a massive line up of people. Not sure what Spain's outlook on drug use is, but it was rather refreshing to see that level of education and emphasis on safety compared to what I've seen in festivals in Toronto and NYC.

ollysb 12y ago
From my experience in Granada it's pretty relaxed. I recall going to a Granada football game(they're in the top division), with a policeman standing on the steps next to my seat there was some guys smoking some joints right in front of us. They may as well have been drinking a beer for all the attention he was giving them.

josefresco 12y ago

Running a a drug friendly "festival" and a state (as in the United States) are two completely different realities. I'm welcome your anecdotal evidence but don't find it at all relevant to the topic of how a state should handle the legal and health consequences of heroin abuse. A bunch of party-goers doing recreational drugs couldn't be farther from the realities of heroin addiction in a rural population.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
david_b 12y ago
Your comment is slightly off-the-mark as his comment wasn't merely about a festival, but also about his opinion on Portugals drug policy. As your comment implies that you aren't familiar with said policy, you may wish to recap Portugals efforts in drug decriminalization: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060-2.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-d... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal While it is apparently hard to say how effective these efforts were, it is quite easy to see that the neo-prohibitionists worst nightsmares have yet to happene in Portugal.
smcl 12y ago
Remember that this is not particular to that festival in Portugal, but to the entirety of Portugal
DanHulton 12y ago
You do realize that a great deal of the problems associated with heroin addiction come from the very fact that it is illegal? The crime, the marginalization from society, the lack of access to health care or rehabilitation clinics, these things all make the addiction far, far worse than if we treated this whole thing a little saner and more compassionately.
- justicezyx 12y ago
  No, I do not realize that "a great deal of the problems associated with heroin addiction come from the very fact that it is illegal".

DAddYE 12y ago

Switzerland (not in the UE) was one of the first countries where some drugs were permitted (like weed). Although (IIRC around 2000) they stopped. Another country Nederland is well know in Europe for being very freedom with drugs. In Nederland in the latest few years they had several calls to put drugs on ban. I visited Switzerland hundreds of times (it's like 15 miles where was my house) I have been in Amsterdam 4 times. What I can say is that "citizens" were kinda sick and seems is not a thing anymore. Although is still a big big business economy for "tourists". I think this thing of legalizing light drugs in america is like tobacco in 60-80', it was cool, trendy out of the scheme, but suddenly... things changed so much that I bet there are less tobacco smokers in California than the smallest town of Portugal.

galfarragem 12y ago

Portugal positive approach on drug problem was just the natural reaction to the collapse we had in late 80's and early-mid 90's. Politics claim it was a result of their policies. That is BS. In the end, government policies had very low impact. The only successful policy (on AIDS control, not on drugs) was the free syringe exchange at pharmacies. The real problem was solved based on the lazy approach of "laissez-faire" (with consumption decriminalization) like a lot of stuff here (for the good and ill), "letting the market solve it": During the 90's the drug problem was huge! As an example, in my home town, that generation doesn't exist (people born during 70's). Almost all men (and some women) from that generation were involved on hard drugs (heroine). A large percentage of them went to prison and didn't come back, another large percentage of them died drugs related. Kids from that time (including myself) saw the dark side of being on drugs seated in first row: it was their neighbors and older brothers, not a stupid tale on TV. Being on drugs since that moment was not cool anymore. Slowly, young people mentalities improved to "being on hard drugs is not cool". Nowadays, the sentiment is more mixed, hard drugs are not anymore seen as a boogeyman: some forgot what happened, others didn't see it with their eyes. Anyway, I don't think we will come back to 90's again. We were coming from a dictatorship, young generations wanted freedom and there were no visible bad examples of drug addiction. Times are different now, drugs are also cheaper, lesser need to be a petty criminal and involve all society like before.