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Notch programming a Doom-like in Dart
- elwell 12y agoIt has now ended.
- hayksaakian 12y agoIt sucks that hitbox doesn't work on mobile.
- netcraft 12y agoI haven't ever heard of hitbox before - are there other streaming sites out there that are popular other than twitch?
- minimaxir 12y agoHitbox is only popular because it isn't Twitch (in the same vein as Facebook and Google+ a couple years back) Specifically, Hitbox has laxer policies regarding non-gaming content [which is relevant in this case], better streaming quality, and lower stream delay.
- valarauca1 12y agoTwitch is in the middle of a media fiasco resulting in policy changes. Hitbox and other twitch like platforms already existed but are enjoying people mass moving from twitch. :.:.: >What happened? Twitch introduced a new service to flag copyrighted music, and. The problem is a lot of games have copyrighted music inside of them, so a lot of music was cut out of footage simply because you couldn't stream the music, just the games footage. Valve actually had most the sound removed from their "The International" DotA2 tournament. Because in-game music was owned by Valve. As an example. Even twitch's own podcasts were flaged and muted due to this. Twitch started enforcing a 30second + stream delay, which angered both Users and Streamers. Since it removed the instant feedback/conversation from the stream. Twitch also deleted terabytes of recorded video on a policy change. You can get the long version from the AMA Twitch.tv's CEO did during the middle of this shit storm http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2cwfu2/i_am_twitch_ceo_emmett_shear_ask_me_almost http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2cwfu2/i_am_twitch_ceo...
- jiggy2011 12y agoSo basically they got big enough that they had to start taking copyright seriously, then users switch to other services causing them to grow....
- valarauca1 12y agoThe issue wasn't so much that, they were taking copyright seriously. Its how they handled taking copyright seriously. Their practice was Draconian, even if the streamer owned the copy right, they still have to appeal to have their content posted. Even twitch took down their own videos explain how this system works, due to copyrighted music. This has been going on for >2 weeks without much change.
- jiggy2011 12y agoIsn't this similar to youtube? It seems that all services end of with draconian policies when they get big enough.
- crazypyro 12y agoThe difference is YouTube is on at least a couple magnitudes larger scale. Furthermore, YouTube doesn't create content and host that, it only hosts the content, allowing for a much easier way to share copy-written material. On Twitch, the things they are muting are recorded videos of streams of their own site. Note the difference here. There's not an easy way to take say a movie and upload it to twitch VoDs in a reasonable amount of time. Lastly, the entire VoD is muted, even if its background music, game music, etc. and most of the time the key sound element is the streamer himself/herself, which is completely lost with muting system. Also why can they not just respond to DMCA requests? There is nothing that has been shown that they are receiving an inordinate amount of DMCA requests that would be impossible to handle with a more refined approach.
- kencausey 12y agoI think it must be clarified that only archived videos (often referred to as VODs) are affected by the copyright music detection. Live streaming is not affected in any way currently. This is relevant because viewing of VODs is quite rare on Twitch (I say this as someone who almost exclusively views VODs on Twitch so as to regain time control.) The Twitch streamers I'm aware of are not that bothered because they consider their streams ephemeral and aren't concerned by the archived copies. Any streamer who feels differently can save their content locally and upload to Youtube or other such service. Of course Youtube also has issues with copyrighted content. Another disclaimer: I stream on Twitch occasionally and post much of my streamed content to Youtube.
- frik 12y agoHaven't heard of hitbox before, great there is now an alternative to Twitch. There were rumors that Google wants to buy Twitch (parent company already closed Justin.tv) But today Amazon.com has agreed to acquire Twitch for more than $1 billion. Interesting, it's an Austrian company (http://about.hitbox.tv/imprint/ http://about.hitbox.tv/imprint/). Keep up the good work! Edit: changed the "Google bought" to "rumor that Google wants to buy", thanks ender7. Edit2: added Amazon.com deal sentence
- ender7 12y agoFriendly reminder: rumors that Google is going to buy Twitch are still just that -- rumors. Nothing has been announced, and there are new rumors that Amazon is now thinking about a purchase [1]. [1] http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/08/amazon-not-google-reportedly-buying-twitch-for-1-billion/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/08/amazon-not-google-repo...
- mscrivo 12y agoAmazon confirmed [1]. [1] http://online.wsj.com/articles/amazon-to-buy-video-site-twitch-for-more-than-1-billion-1408988885 http://online.wsj.com/articles/amazon-to-buy-video-site-twit...
- superuser2 12y agoWorking for me on iPad.
- karli 12y agohitbox has a Android app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=hitbox.app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=hitbox.app
- hayksaakian 12y agoThat's new, thanks for pointing it out!
- chucknelson 12y agoSo how does his process work? Does he start with the original C engine source and start porting to Dart? Does he do some of the work beforehand?
- dubcanada 12y agoIt does it mostly all in his head. He's built a fair amount of rendering engines so he knows all the basics of how to do it.
- chucknelson 12y agoThat is impressive if true. Does he also figure out how to read the WAD files himself too for level geometry and textures? I just find it hard to believe he isn't referencing the original source at all...
- wtetzner 12y agoWell, the title is "Notch programming a Doom-like in Dart." So, it doesn't sound like it's a port of Doom, just a game that's like Doom.
- codezero 12y agoWas watching and the level he loaded was definitely a Doom one. Looked like the WAD was in his assets.
- jiggy2011 12y agoThe WAD format was reverse engineered and published some time back in the 90s when the first third party level editors and mods were produced.
- thelinked 12y agoIndeed it was. Here's the unofficial spec in case anyone is interested. http://www.gamers.org/dhs/helpdocs/dmsp1666.html http://www.gamers.org/dhs/helpdocs/dmsp1666.html
- eamsen 12y agoWatching Notch hacking on the Ludum Dare competition is such a comforting experience - to me he is the Bob Ross of game development. He also seems to end up developing the same thing over and over again with different shades of green on the leaves. Even though you may don't like his style, you have to admire his pragmatism, productivity and humbleness.
- jiggy2011 12y agohttp://notch.net/games/ http://notch.net/games/ There's a pretty big variety there.
- eamsen 12y agoYou're right about him putting out a few little games, which do not share the same game mechanics, but a lot of his work is based on repetition and refinement. Or to quote [1] himself: "I am forever cursed to keep making the same game over and over again!! But at least it's fun.. Now, space!" [1] https://twitter.com/notch/status/189315622818168832 https://twitter.com/notch/status/189315622818168832
- smrtinsert 12y agoThat's so dismissive, Bob Ross was the running ironic joke of the painting world.
- gnarbarian 12y agoThe analogy is apt. Notch isn't known for being a stellar programmer.
- laxatives 12y agoI'd rather be a successful programmer than a stellar one (probably).
- gnarbarian 12y ago
- tosh 12y agoFor me personally it is interesting to see that Notch seems to prefer Dart Editor (Built on the Eclipse platform) over something like Intellij IDEA or Webstorm (https://www.dartlang.org/tools/webstorm/ https://www.dartlang.org/tools/webstorm/).
- derengel 12y agoI don't see how that is interesting, his using the official Dart IDE.
- zak_mc_kracken 12y agoAlso, he's always been an Eclipse user.
- TehCorwiz 12y agoHe comes from a java heavy background. I would expect him to already be comfortable with Eclipse.
- tosh 12y agoDidn't know that, makes sense, thanks for the pointer.
- skybrian 12y agoI normally use IDEA for Java, but the Dart Editor works fine for Dart. The Eclipse foundation it's built on doesn't show through too badly so you don't have to mess with perspectives or anything like that. (I don't yet trust its refactoring, though.)
- tosh 12y agoI'm currently switching between IDEA 14 (preview edition) and Dart Editor but using IDEA more and more. IDEA 14's Dart plugin is further along than the one from IDEA 13 :)
- yason 12y agoI'm amazed how much of editing he actually does by hand (like growing/shrinking indentation) and mouse. That sort of switching between actual coding and lexical editing would kill my flow.
- elwell 12y agoYeah, he's switching eclipse tabs by using the mouse! Another reminder to not obsess over development tool choice, and just get things done.
- tosh 12y agoI think I spend most of my time reading, navigating and debugging code. IDE developers should do more heavy lifting to support these use-cases imho. I really like what the SourceGraph people are doing (https://sourcegraph.com/ https://sourcegraph.com/)
- smrtinsert 12y agoControl PageUp/PageDown!
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- spain 12y agoI'm watching now and it doesn't seem that bad, sure he switches tabs with the mouse but it seems like he is using quite a lot of keyboard shortcuts otherwise. I'd almost wager he has a plugin to emulate vim or emacs keybinds, seeing as he's moving the cursor forward by words and jumping around the code a lot without using the mouse at all.
- swah 12y agoBy the powerful sound of the keystroke when moving words, I'd say he is using Ctrl+<Arrows>. That is very common in Windows. BTW I'm not able to switch between OSX and Windows (home & work) efficiently - Windows' shortcuts are so much easier on my hands. Is there any way people make the two OSes more similar?
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- presty 12y agoHey Notch, why Dart?
- jiggy2011 12y agoIs notch a HN member?
- squeaky-clean 12y agoNone of the usernames he usually uses seem to be registered. He does respond frequently on Reddit. Maybe there's an equivalent thread over there? He seems to be too busy coding to respond to any comments at the moment, though.
- kurrent 12y agohe just said on the stream he "likes HN but doesn't hang out on HN because there's too many nerds"
- smrtinsert 12y agoOver TypeScript? I imagine for JS based languages the main draw is portability.
- companyhen 12y ago"I'm doing it in Dart because it's fun." -Notch
- maikklein 12y agoI can't change the streaming quality? Is this a bug?
- zubspace 12y agoI'm so impressed watching Notch program in realtime. "Last Minute Christmas Chopping" was an eye opener for me. (http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-28/?action=preview&uid=398 http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-28/?action=preview...). I was totally baffled when he started to draw the ascii character map pixel by pixel in an 48h competition, but the result was usable and actually quite simple. My takeaway is this: Doing something quick and dirty for a first draft and improve it later on often leads to better results in the long run than planing and over-engineering a solution beforehand, because you can start refining details much earlier or throw away bad approaches without investing too much time. What I don't get is, why he seems to like Dart so much. Don't get me wrong: I love Dart as an language. The syntax looks very familiar to someone coming from c#, adds syntactic sugar and the editor, with line step debugger, is great. But in the end it's still javascript which makes it hard to create native and mobile builds. Wouldn't Haxe be more suitable?
- swah 12y agoYour takeaway reminds me of this quote from John Carmack: "Focused, hard work is the real key to success. Keep your eyes on the goal, and just keep taking the next step towards completing it. If you aren't sure which way to do something, do it both ways and see which works better." I wish I followed it more :)
- cdelsolar 12y agothat's an amazing quote. thanks for sharing!
- spain 12y ago>My takeaway is this: Doing something quick and dirty for a first draft and improve it later on often leads to better results in the long run than planing and over-engineering a solution beforehand, because you can start refining details much earlier or throw away bad approaches without investing too much time. I think it depends on what you're doing, I doubt it works for every project out there.
- tosh 12y ago
- swah 12y agoBtw, this is 2014 and I feel like we would already be able to play a simple game like Doom in the browser, just like the real thing. But no.. --edit-- ...multiplayer with several people, of course.
- skymt 12y agoYou'd think so, wouldn't you? https://wiki.mozilla.org/Legal/Infringement_Notices/3_June_2011 https://wiki.mozilla.org/Legal/Infringement_Notices/3_June_2...
- swah 12y ago:(
- BenoitEssiambre 12y agoTry this in the latest Firefox: http://kripken.github.io/boon/inception/ http://kripken.github.io/boon/inception/ The inner doom game is playable.
- azakai 12y agoAlso playable by itself at http://kripken.github.io/boon/boon.html http://kripken.github.io/boon/boon.html
- ryusage 12y agoWe've played this off and on at the office for the last couple years: http://www.quakelive.com http://www.quakelive.com
- leishulang 12y agoMaybe it's time for me to quit the VIM/Emacs addiction.
- ansible 12y agoPeople are addicted? News to me. I've been using VI/VIM for decades. If I am looking at a piece of code, I don't think too much about how to move around, or delete lines, or such. It mostly happens while I'm thinking of higher level issues. Fixing indent issues is just a couple keystrokes, so that reduces my distraction too. Practice, practice, practice with the tools you are going to use every day.
- moron4hire 12y agoWhy? Because Notch doesn't use it? What should that matter? Use what works for you.
- ColinDabritz 12y agoI think it's great to see some live programming, with all the goofs and dead ends. While I appreciate the prepared demos that are common at conferences and elsewhere, they are more of a quick way to provide an intro to something new, and I feel they can give beginners the wrong idea about how real programming works. Seeing the whole development process, warts and all, live like this is amazingly educational. Props for doing this Notch!
- antoncohen 12y agoNotch uploaded the code to GitHub: https://github.com/xNotch/dark https://github.com/xNotch/dark
- odonnellryan 12y agoI found these hilarious: https://github.com/xNotch/dark/issues https://github.com/xNotch/dark/issues
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- elwell 12y agoMy favorite: https://github.com/xNotch/dark/issues/13 https://github.com/xNotch/dark/issues/13 Note the username.
- odonnellryan 12y agoThe only one Notch kept open. lol.
- grrowl 12y agoLooks like John opened an account just to file the issue: "Joined on Aug 25, 2014"[1] [1]: https://github.com/jcarmack https://github.com/jcarmack
- randunel 12y agoClicked, watched someone's screen reading the same messages I was reading with "Bubble butt" in the background for 1 minute, then closed and commented this...
- swirlycheetah 12y agoEach time there's a Ludum Dare or someone prolific livestreams themselves coding (usually Notch) I get all excited and want to do the same but I can never find a website or platform which really caters to coders. Am I alone in this? Is there somewhere? Is there actually any demand for this? Either way, I've created a quick landing page to see if anyone would actually be interested in a live streaming site specifically for coding - http://devv.tv http://devv.tv It's nothing pretty but some validation or feedback before I jump head first into this would be amazing.
- coolsunglasses 12y agoSigned up. Please make it work on Linux (I use xmonad on Ubuntu).
- swirlycheetah 12y agoThanks! Will certainly add this to the list. Out of interest what's support for live streaming like currently for you?
- maxmcd 12y agoMight want to make that email input type="email" Either way, signed up.
- swirlycheetah 12y agoThanks for signing up, will take a look at that input type.
- hansyschmitt 12y agoHi, I'm also working on a plataform with focus on streaming live-coding. I would love to talk with you about how to tackle that space. You can contact me at schmitt.hansy at gmail.com.
- brl 12y agoI would love for this to exist. I've thought about streaming on twitch before but it is apparently against their ToS to stream anything which isn't video games.
- chops 12y agoNotch's Ludum Dare video for Metagun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV-AFnCkRLY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV-AFnCkRLY) was inspiration for a series of scripts I now use for clients and my own entertainment purposes (for some loose definition of "entertainment"). It's a series of shell scripts I use that screencap videos of coding and set them to music (so, for example, rendering a 48-hour coding competition to a 5-minute song, or as I more typically do for clients, render the development process down to a few minutes for them to watch in fast-time how their development was done). It's called watchmecode (https://github.com/choptastic/watchmecode https://github.com/choptastic/watchmecode) and I just have to do ./make-av-video.sh /path/to/video.mpg /path/to/song.mp3 And it does the rest, and outputs it to "done.mp4" The result is something that looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwn7mfmo0SQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwn7mfmo0SQ (disclaimer, I've plugged this before on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5685859 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5685859)
- nacs 12y agoChronolapse can do this on Windows for those looking for an alternative: https://code.google.com/p/chronolapse/ https://code.google.com/p/chronolapse/
- taloft 12y agoI missed the livestreams due to opposite timezones. Are there archives of the videos? Can't seem to find the button on hitbox.