5 ms·

Despite FAA Setbacks, Amazon Prime Air Makes Notable Hires

66 points by eplanit 12y ago

mkl 12y ago
The FAA thing didn't actually affect Amazon or their plans for Prime Air: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2014/06/faa-s-ruling-doesn-t-affect-amazons-drone-delivery.html http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2014/06/fa...
- dmix 12y ago
  Strange how this author mentions the FAA about ten times without researching Amazon's official statement on the matter.
downandout 12y ago
If people want drone-based delivery, someone will make one that individuals can privately buy that will fly out to pick up packages. That's legal today. Any individual can do anything they want with a drone they own as long as it does not fly above 400 feet - it's the business owning it and using it for commercial purposes that makes it illegal under current rules.
- furyofantares 12y ago
  Where is that legal today? Don't personal drones have to be manually operated by someone on the ground within line of sight among other restrictions in the US?
  - downandout 12y ago
    The phrase “visual line of sight” is sometimes distinguished from “line of sight,” which can refer to operation in which a radio signal can be transmitted directly from an operator to a UAS that may be beyond visual line of sight.
    - furyofantares 12y ago
      And don't you need visual line of sight according to the FAA in order to operate model aircraft / drones?
    - ahupp 12y ago
      I have never seen this distinction made before. cite?
- jahewson 12y ago
  An operator can't do anything they like, their UAS has further restrictions which would rule out automated parcel collection: - flown a sufficient distance from populated areas - should be kept within visual line of sight of the operator Source: https://www.faa.gov/uas/faq/ https://www.faa.gov/uas/faq/
  - baddox 12y ago
    And, like many rules the FAA makes, there is debate over whether they have the legal authority or physical power to enforce them. That's why they took Trappy to NTSB court rather than arresting him. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/04/12/faa-files-appeal-brief-in-closely-watched-drone-pilot-case/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/04/12/faa-files-...
robbrown451 12y ago
I'm sorry, but this is insane. No local government is going to allow these things to be buzzing around everywhere for no good reason. People may like it for a about a week ("neato, I can get my package lickity-split!") and then will say screw this, those things are making a racket and driving me batty. It's not like they can be used to deliver groceries. And they presumably have to return to the base after each delivery, because they can't carry that much. That's just crazy inefficient. I could see small electric rolling vehicles that make automated deliveries. But noisy little helicopter drones? Not going to happen.
- spydertennis 12y ago
  this is so logical that i cant believe amazon hasnt thought of it. they must know something we dont or its all just a joke.
  - spydertennis 12y ago
    instead of drones they should repurpose military aircraft to carpet bomb cities with peoples' packages.
  - robbrown451 12y ago
    My theory has been that it is a joke but I'm not sure anymore. You'd think they would have thought this through, but ya know, I'm not sure they thought the Fire Phone through.
- danshapiro 12y ago
  You're forecasting the future based on the state of technology at the present. That is unlikely to point you in the right direction.
  - robbrown451 12y ago
    Well I predict flying cars won't happen anytime soon either. Pretty much the same reason.
  - 12y ago
icpmacdo 12y ago
I think that the US may legislate it's self out of a really interesting industry, I would think it could be possible some smaller country with a good population density could become industry leaders here.
- jamornh 12y ago
  That sounds a lot like it will do very very well in Singapore especially if Singapore Post depots act as the hub for these drones. The entire country could be completely served by them. Although there's no front lawn to speak of, so they will have to be able to slot things into mailboxes.
  - icpmacdo 12y ago
    That is the area of the world I was thinking about.
  - jahewson 12y ago
    A tropical coastal city with high winds, heavy rainfall and multiple monsoon seasons doesn't seem ideal, despite the small area.
- robbrown451 12y ago
  I hope to live in a country that legislates away all the noisy little delivery mosquitos.
  - baddox 12y ago
    Do you have any experience with the kind of multirotor aircraft that would likely be used for short to medium distance package delivery? They are not particularly noisy, and at the distances from humans they would spend most of their time in, they probably would not be audible at all.
    - newaccountfool 12y ago
      I have, I'm the owner of a DJIF450 and I can say they're noisy and I don't reckon they will be delivering to places like NewYork due to restrictions. If your houses are well spaced then I recon your neighbors won't mind.
sidcool 12y ago
I would rather change that URL, the url_source points to linkedIn.com. Just saying.
sschueller 12y ago
A much more likely delivery path will be something like Uber + Amazon.
- mcintyre1994 12y ago
  I suspect this is a big part of why Google invested in Uber.
- potatolicious 12y ago
  Probably, though also probably a more depressing/less glamorous version of Uber + Amazon. Having people run around in cars is going to be horrifically non-economical, and at a commodity level delivering packages is going to be far less profitable than driving people around. More likely we'll see companies hire scores of underemployed former-members-of-the-middle class and put them on mopeds/bicycles (as density dictates). They are cheaper, and unlike machines scale up/down as seasonality requires. They are also highly flexible and capable of things like ringing doorbells, opening doors, climbing stairs, following notes on doors, and all the other details around delivery that "drones for everything!" acolytes tend to gloss over. This is already the reality in places like New York - you can already get a huge array of things delivered within minutes by people zipping around on e-bikes.
  - rjsw 12y ago
    You could get them to make multiple deliveries in one trip, maybe call them something like "postman".
    - potatolicious 12y ago
      Hehe, that's the big difference though right? We already have a really efficient, profitable delivery infrastructure. It just doesn't do near-real-time deliveries. You can have fast deliveries, or you can have efficient/full-utilization of delivery workers. Even in a place as dense as New York City it's still very difficult to aggregate enough deliveries together that profitability for workers becomes substantial. Most are running around with 1-2 deliveries at a time.
kyro 12y ago
I love the idea of Amazon Prime Air, but there's one concern I have. I know next to nothing about the FAA and airspace regulation, so I'd like to hear from someone who does. The common argument to raised concerns of drones buzzing about is "well, we have cars and delivery trucks!" That doesn't quite sit well with me because we have designated specific areas to the use of automobiles. It's easy to stay off the road. We can consciously stay out of harm's way, even if it's an asshole driving recklessly. How is this accomplished with drones? How is the airspace structured in a way where drones are in designated areas that either avoid or are avoided by humans? How do you prevent an asshole piloting a rogue drone from dropping a heavy item on someone in a balcony? One can make the argument that these concerns also apply to planes, but I'm assuming both the airspace and ownership of planes are heavily regulated and monitored. Will we need a similar system to manage drone use?
- kenrikm 12y ago
  Under 500 feet is unregulated, (FAA claims 400) the FAA is trying to regulate it since a reform law that was passed in 2012. Under 83 Feet is owned by the property owner due to some lawsuit back around WW2 involving some chickens. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/05/30/317074394/drone-wars-who-owns-the-air http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/05/30/317074394/drone-wa...
- baddox 12y ago
  I see two main options: designated virtual lanes that are programmed into drone navigational systems, and robust sense and avoid systems that allow seemingly chaotic pathing to remain reasonably safe. In practice there will probably be a combination of the two. As for who decides what the rules are, well, in the US it's pretty easy to predict that the FAA or perhaps some yet-unconceived federal agency will try its best to strictly regulate commercial drones, and will probably largely succeed at least in crowded areas. I have my doubts that it's the best possible way to organize the activity, but it's the most likely.
- newaccountfool 12y ago
  I'm wondering what the hell happens when the drone gets shot down...I know if there is 100$ of good AND a multirotor then these things will get shot from the sky. No matter if they have GPS or not.
potrebitel 12y ago
What if Amazon are building delivery AI not only for drones, but something else (cars?) Yeah, they say drones, but it's way too expensive project (people involved, locations, offices, etc ) to be for single purpose. Maybe they're just building something bigger.

66 points by eplanit 12y ago

mkl 12y ago

The FAA thing didn't actually affect Amazon or their plans for Prime Air: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2014/06/faa-s-ruling-doesn-t-affect-amazons-drone-delivery.html http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2014/06/fa...

dmix 12y ago
Strange how this author mentions the FAA about ten times without researching Amazon's official statement on the matter.

downandout 12y ago

If people want drone-based delivery, someone will make one that individuals can privately buy that will fly out to pick up packages. That's legal today. Any individual can do anything they want with a drone they own as long as it does not fly above 400 feet - it's the business owning it and using it for commercial purposes that makes it illegal under current rules.

furyofantares 12y ago
Where is that legal today? Don't personal drones have to be manually operated by someone on the ground within line of sight among other restrictions in the US?
- downandout 12y ago
  The phrase “visual line of sight” is sometimes distinguished from “line of sight,” which can refer to operation in which a radio signal can be transmitted directly from an operator to a UAS that may be beyond visual line of sight.
  - furyofantares 12y ago
    And don't you need visual line of sight according to the FAA in order to operate model aircraft / drones?
  - ahupp 12y ago
    I have never seen this distinction made before. cite?
jahewson 12y ago
An operator can't do anything they like, their UAS has further restrictions which would rule out automated parcel collection: - flown a sufficient distance from populated areas - should be kept within visual line of sight of the operator Source: https://www.faa.gov/uas/faq/ https://www.faa.gov/uas/faq/
- baddox 12y ago
  And, like many rules the FAA makes, there is debate over whether they have the legal authority or physical power to enforce them. That's why they took Trappy to NTSB court rather than arresting him. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/04/12/faa-files-appeal-brief-in-closely-watched-drone-pilot-case/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/04/12/faa-files-...

robbrown451 12y ago

I'm sorry, but this is insane. No local government is going to allow these things to be buzzing around everywhere for no good reason. People may like it for a about a week ("neato, I can get my package lickity-split!") and then will say screw this, those things are making a racket and driving me batty. It's not like they can be used to deliver groceries. And they presumably have to return to the base after each delivery, because they can't carry that much. That's just crazy inefficient. I could see small electric rolling vehicles that make automated deliveries. But noisy little helicopter drones? Not going to happen.

spydertennis 12y ago
this is so logical that i cant believe amazon hasnt thought of it. they must know something we dont or its all just a joke.
- spydertennis 12y ago
  instead of drones they should repurpose military aircraft to carpet bomb cities with peoples' packages.
- robbrown451 12y ago
  My theory has been that it is a joke but I'm not sure anymore. You'd think they would have thought this through, but ya know, I'm not sure they thought the Fire Phone through.
danshapiro 12y ago
You're forecasting the future based on the state of technology at the present. That is unlikely to point you in the right direction.
- robbrown451 12y ago
  Well I predict flying cars won't happen anytime soon either. Pretty much the same reason.
- 12y ago

icpmacdo 12y ago

I think that the US may legislate it's self out of a really interesting industry, I would think it could be possible some smaller country with a good population density could become industry leaders here.

jamornh 12y ago
That sounds a lot like it will do very very well in Singapore especially if Singapore Post depots act as the hub for these drones. The entire country could be completely served by them. Although there's no front lawn to speak of, so they will have to be able to slot things into mailboxes.
- icpmacdo 12y ago
  That is the area of the world I was thinking about.
- jahewson 12y ago
  A tropical coastal city with high winds, heavy rainfall and multiple monsoon seasons doesn't seem ideal, despite the small area.
robbrown451 12y ago
I hope to live in a country that legislates away all the noisy little delivery mosquitos.
- baddox 12y ago
  Do you have any experience with the kind of multirotor aircraft that would likely be used for short to medium distance package delivery? They are not particularly noisy, and at the distances from humans they would spend most of their time in, they probably would not be audible at all.
  - newaccountfool 12y ago
    I have, I'm the owner of a DJIF450 and I can say they're noisy and I don't reckon they will be delivering to places like NewYork due to restrictions. If your houses are well spaced then I recon your neighbors won't mind.

sidcool 12y ago

I would rather change that URL, the url_source points to linkedIn.com. Just saying.

sschueller 12y ago

A much more likely delivery path will be something like Uber + Amazon.

mcintyre1994 12y ago
I suspect this is a big part of why Google invested in Uber.
potatolicious 12y ago
Probably, though also probably a more depressing/less glamorous version of Uber + Amazon. Having people run around in cars is going to be horrifically non-economical, and at a commodity level delivering packages is going to be far less profitable than driving people around. More likely we'll see companies hire scores of underemployed former-members-of-the-middle class and put them on mopeds/bicycles (as density dictates). They are cheaper, and unlike machines scale up/down as seasonality requires. They are also highly flexible and capable of things like ringing doorbells, opening doors, climbing stairs, following notes on doors, and all the other details around delivery that "drones for everything!" acolytes tend to gloss over. This is already the reality in places like New York - you can already get a huge array of things delivered within minutes by people zipping around on e-bikes.
- rjsw 12y ago
  You could get them to make multiple deliveries in one trip, maybe call them something like "postman".
  - potatolicious 12y ago
    Hehe, that's the big difference though right? We already have a really efficient, profitable delivery infrastructure. It just doesn't do near-real-time deliveries. You can have fast deliveries, or you can have efficient/full-utilization of delivery workers. Even in a place as dense as New York City it's still very difficult to aggregate enough deliveries together that profitability for workers becomes substantial. Most are running around with 1-2 deliveries at a time.

kyro 12y ago

I love the idea of Amazon Prime Air, but there's one concern I have. I know next to nothing about the FAA and airspace regulation, so I'd like to hear from someone who does. The common argument to raised concerns of drones buzzing about is "well, we have cars and delivery trucks!" That doesn't quite sit well with me because we have designated specific areas to the use of automobiles. It's easy to stay off the road. We can consciously stay out of harm's way, even if it's an asshole driving recklessly. How is this accomplished with drones? How is the airspace structured in a way where drones are in designated areas that either avoid or are avoided by humans? How do you prevent an asshole piloting a rogue drone from dropping a heavy item on someone in a balcony? One can make the argument that these concerns also apply to planes, but I'm assuming both the airspace and ownership of planes are heavily regulated and monitored. Will we need a similar system to manage drone use?

kenrikm 12y ago
Under 500 feet is unregulated, (FAA claims 400) the FAA is trying to regulate it since a reform law that was passed in 2012. Under 83 Feet is owned by the property owner due to some lawsuit back around WW2 involving some chickens. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/05/30/317074394/drone-wars-who-owns-the-air http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/05/30/317074394/drone-wa...
baddox 12y ago
I see two main options: designated virtual lanes that are programmed into drone navigational systems, and robust sense and avoid systems that allow seemingly chaotic pathing to remain reasonably safe. In practice there will probably be a combination of the two. As for who decides what the rules are, well, in the US it's pretty easy to predict that the FAA or perhaps some yet-unconceived federal agency will try its best to strictly regulate commercial drones, and will probably largely succeed at least in crowded areas. I have my doubts that it's the best possible way to organize the activity, but it's the most likely.
newaccountfool 12y ago
I'm wondering what the hell happens when the drone gets shot down...I know if there is 100$ of good AND a multirotor then these things will get shot from the sky. No matter if they have GPS or not.

potrebitel 12y ago

What if Amazon are building delivery AI not only for drones, but something else (cars?) Yeah, they say drones, but it's way too expensive project (people involved, locations, offices, etc ) to be for single purpose. Maybe they're just building something bigger.