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The containers are stacked higher and nearer the edge than I would've expected for an oceangoing ship. Do ships like this lose containers in rough seas?

joezydeco 12y ago
What a great time to introduce you to http://www.cargolaw.com/gallery.html http://www.cargolaw.com/gallery.html This site has lots of amazing pictures if you can get past the Geocities design. Like this: http://www.cargolaw.com/2012nightmare_bai_chay_bri.html http://www.cargolaw.com/2012nightmare_bai_chay_bri.html
- trhway 12y ago
  seems like losing a few at sea is nothing compare to the fire : http://www.cargolaw.com/2006nightmare_hyundai_for2.html http://www.cargolaw.com/2006nightmare_hyundai_for2.html How would you put out such a fire from under/inside the stacks of the containers? (and given the content of the containers with consumer goods - plastic, plastic and more plastic ... ) What are the limits on the size of a ship? Width of Panama/Suez channels? Lets say they would build by 2019 (they plan to start this year and be done by 2019) the Nicaragua canal : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_Canal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_Canal "The proposed canal would be between 230 meters and 520 meters wide and 27.6 meters deep." And Egypt also invests billions in improving (and as i remember - building new pieces) of Suez. So, how about double length and double width of the Triple-E?
  - lmm 12y ago
    Inert gas, if you can get it. I'm not sure about the legalities of Halon these days, but ordinary CO2 would work, and in compressed cylinders you can store quite a lot of it in a small space. Given that we're assuming there's burning plastic you'd hope any firefighters are using respirators already, so just flood the area with CO2, deprive the fire of oxygen and there you go. CO2 is heavier than air so would naturally fill the ship, though whether you could avoid getting oxygen to the other levels I don't know. Maybe put a big tarp over the top of the ship? :P.
3JPLW 12y ago
Yes, they do. A few weeks ago this hit hacker news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8062864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8062864. 62 containers were lost due to a "once in a 100 year wave." One of which contained Legos. I'm not sure what the expected value is for number of TEUs lost per journey. I'd hope that it's near zero, but I don't know. Edit: quick google. Estimates range from 1,000 (World Shipping Council)[0] to 10,000 (Singularity Hub)[1] lost per year. Either way, with 120 million containers shipped per year, it's quite low. 0. http://gcaptain.com/how-many-shipping-containers-lost-at-sea/ http://gcaptain.com/how-many-shipping-containers-lost-at-sea... 1. http://singularityhub.com/2011/04/05/10000-shipping-containers-lost-at-sea-each-year-heres-a-look-at-one-2/ http://singularityhub.com/2011/04/05/10000-shipping-containe...
- wclax04 12y ago
  And as a recreational ocean racing sailer, nothing is more terrifying than seeing one of these bobbing just below the surface.
  - evanb 12y ago
    Have you seen All Is Lost with Robert Redford? It came out in the last 12 months, and the premise is that he's sailing in the Indian Ocean when his boat strikes a lost container. I enjoyed it quite a bit.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    This is the primary reason the catamaran I'm building has a titanium superstructure. I refuse to let an orphaned cargo container floating in the Pacific be my undoing on a circumnavigation.
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      When you strike a container at speed all bets are off, regardless of what material your boat is made of. You're in a catamaran, at least you have two hulls rather than just one. And it would appear that the part that is underwater is the most important bit when it comes to striking containers so I'm not sure why you think a titanium superstructure will help you if there is a gaping hole in your hull.
johntb86 12y ago
They lock containers together with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twistlock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twistlock (and probably with other mechanisms) though of course if the ship tilts enough there can still be problems.
- Gracana 12y ago
  Lashing bars are the other mechanism. Big turnbuckles that hold down the first few levels.
  - unwind 12y ago
    Obligatory terminology helper link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnbuckle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnbuckle.
aaron695 12y ago
> Do ships like this lose containers in rough seas? No. Losing customers containers is bad for business I would find it unlikely you'd just factor loses like that in. I't take an accident/mistake or rare natural event to knock them out. Even if you wanted to allow containers to 'fall off' as a business expense I'd see the maritime union causing issues increasing this expense since I'd imagine it creates an unsafe work environment.

joezydeco 12y ago

What a great time to introduce you to http://www.cargolaw.com/gallery.html http://www.cargolaw.com/gallery.html This site has lots of amazing pictures if you can get past the Geocities design. Like this: http://www.cargolaw.com/2012nightmare_bai_chay_bri.html http://www.cargolaw.com/2012nightmare_bai_chay_bri.html

trhway 12y ago
seems like losing a few at sea is nothing compare to the fire : http://www.cargolaw.com/2006nightmare_hyundai_for2.html http://www.cargolaw.com/2006nightmare_hyundai_for2.html How would you put out such a fire from under/inside the stacks of the containers? (and given the content of the containers with consumer goods - plastic, plastic and more plastic ... ) What are the limits on the size of a ship? Width of Panama/Suez channels? Lets say they would build by 2019 (they plan to start this year and be done by 2019) the Nicaragua canal : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_Canal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_Canal "The proposed canal would be between 230 meters and 520 meters wide and 27.6 meters deep." And Egypt also invests billions in improving (and as i remember - building new pieces) of Suez. So, how about double length and double width of the Triple-E?
- lmm 12y ago
  Inert gas, if you can get it. I'm not sure about the legalities of Halon these days, but ordinary CO2 would work, and in compressed cylinders you can store quite a lot of it in a small space. Given that we're assuming there's burning plastic you'd hope any firefighters are using respirators already, so just flood the area with CO2, deprive the fire of oxygen and there you go. CO2 is heavier than air so would naturally fill the ship, though whether you could avoid getting oxygen to the other levels I don't know. Maybe put a big tarp over the top of the ship? :P.

3JPLW 12y ago

Yes, they do. A few weeks ago this hit hacker news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8062864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8062864. 62 containers were lost due to a "once in a 100 year wave." One of which contained Legos. I'm not sure what the expected value is for number of TEUs lost per journey. I'd hope that it's near zero, but I don't know. Edit: quick google. Estimates range from 1,000 (World Shipping Council)[0] to 10,000 (Singularity Hub)[1] lost per year. Either way, with 120 million containers shipped per year, it's quite low. 0. http://gcaptain.com/how-many-shipping-containers-lost-at-sea/ http://gcaptain.com/how-many-shipping-containers-lost-at-sea... 1. http://singularityhub.com/2011/04/05/10000-shipping-containers-lost-at-sea-each-year-heres-a-look-at-one-2/ http://singularityhub.com/2011/04/05/10000-shipping-containe...

wclax04 12y ago
And as a recreational ocean racing sailer, nothing is more terrifying than seeing one of these bobbing just below the surface.
- evanb 12y ago
  Have you seen All Is Lost with Robert Redford? It came out in the last 12 months, and the premise is that he's sailing in the Indian Ocean when his boat strikes a lost container. I enjoyed it quite a bit.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  This is the primary reason the catamaran I'm building has a titanium superstructure. I refuse to let an orphaned cargo container floating in the Pacific be my undoing on a circumnavigation.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    When you strike a container at speed all bets are off, regardless of what material your boat is made of. You're in a catamaran, at least you have two hulls rather than just one. And it would appear that the part that is underwater is the most important bit when it comes to striking containers so I'm not sure why you think a titanium superstructure will help you if there is a gaping hole in your hull.

johntb86 12y ago

They lock containers together with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twistlock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twistlock (and probably with other mechanisms) though of course if the ship tilts enough there can still be problems.

Gracana 12y ago
Lashing bars are the other mechanism. Big turnbuckles that hold down the first few levels.
- unwind 12y ago
  Obligatory terminology helper link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnbuckle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnbuckle.

aaron695 12y ago

> Do ships like this lose containers in rough seas? No. Losing customers containers is bad for business I would find it unlikely you'd just factor loses like that in. I't take an accident/mistake or rare natural event to knock them out. Even if you wanted to allow containers to 'fall off' as a business expense I'd see the maritime union causing issues increasing this expense since I'd imagine it creates an unsafe work environment.