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And I'm happy to be someone about to jump fully on the Bitcoin train and never have to think about the price of Bitcoin. As a U.S. citizen living abroad, Bitco

by gexla 12y ago

And I'm happy to be someone about to jump fully on the Bitcoin train and never have to think about the price of Bitcoin. As a U.S. citizen living abroad, Bitcoin is now at the intersection of cheapest, fast (but not instant) and most convenient for receiving my money. There are exchanges here which work automatically and have lots of options for me to receive my money. At this point, I can't say there is a better method available for me. I'm getting the pathways setup (accounts mostly) and then all of my money transfers will be going through Bitcoin. When people like me who don't care about the price, but get real utility out of Bitcoin (beyond just the gimmick of merchants accepting payments in Bitcoin which make up less than 1% of sales but much more than that in marketing publicity) then the prices will really start to take off. But, we still won't care about the prices then. Edit: That said, Ripple or Stellar may be an even better option for moving money. Once Cryptocurrency becomes so widely used that Bitcoin is just another option, then Bitcoin could drop massively. But we still won't care about price. ;) Edit2: I would NOT be holding Bitcoin. I would only be using it as a transfer medium.

gexla 12y ago
You guys have got to be kidding me. I write a comment about transferring money to a 3rd world nation, which is one of the greatest possible uses of Bitcoin in the future and my comment is getting attacked? Of course people in 3rd world nations won't hold Bitcoin. Low income workers can't afford any volatility and they often can't afford to hold anything anyways. What I'm trying to say is that Bitcoin is emerging as the best remittance option. This is one of the most exciting uses of Bitcoin. But it's not quite there yet for most people in the world. In the Philippines, it's here! If an option is good for remittances, it's also good for an expat to remit money to him / her self. In this scenario, we don't care about what the price is. What's the problem with that?
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > In this scenario, we don't care about what the price is. You don't, but you rely on people who do on both ends, which means that the long-term viability in the use case you are interested in is dependent on the viability of Bitcoin to people who do care about the price, even if the people using it for your use case do not directly care about that.
  - gexla 12y ago
    Maybe. We are getting into something which is a bit complex here. And I'm assuming neither one of us are experts. People who are interested in holding Bitcoin probably aren't people I'm going to be interacting with. If you are holding, you aren't selling. My use case will help Bitcoin by creating demand, and helping liquidity. I'm buying and then turning around and selling. I using up available liquidity and then selling to create more liquidity. That liquidity also helps other people looking to do the same as me. You then have a pool of Bitcoin which is basically just zipping between people who aren't affected by price. People who are speculating on the very short term don't necessarily care about price either. They may only care about up and down movements. Just as day traders of stocks don't necessarily care about the name of the stock or even the history. All they see is movement. In this case, volatility may actually be good for these people (I don't know, I'm not a day trader.)
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > People who are interested in holding Bitcoin probably aren't people I'm going to be interacting with. Sure they are. > If you are holding, you aren't selling. But if you are interested in holding, you are likely buying. And remittance use case requires you to interact with both a seller and a buyer. > I using up available liquidity and then selling to create more liquidity. Which is basically a net zero impact, but sure. > That liquidity also helps other people looking to do the same as me. You then have a pool of Bitcoin which is basically just zipping between people who aren't affected by price. Except that if you want those transactions to get processed, you need miners, who are interested in price, since they get paid in bitcoins (mining new blocks and/or transaction fees; over time moving from the former as the main reward to the latter.)
kasey_junk 12y ago
Just as a heads up, you will still need to care about price for volatility risk reasons. Hedging bitcoin volatility risk is a major concern for its adoption.
- gexla 12y ago
  Bitcoin has a lot of utility outside of just holding. I didn't specifically say I would be holding. Rather, I would be using it for money transfer.
  - kasey_junk 12y ago
    There is still volatility risk in money transfer (in fact large treasury groups spend a lot of time/money on this problem).
valas 12y ago
Why you don't care about the price? In the end, money is just means to an end, e.g. to improve your life comfort. If one day someone transferred you X amount of potential comfort and then the next day you see you very suddenly have 0.80*X left, aren't you upset?
the_mitsuhiko 12y ago
> As a U.S. citizen living abroad, Bitcoin is now at the intersection of cheapest, fast (but not instant) and most convenient for receiving my money. There are exchanges here which work automatically and have lots of options for me to receive my money. At this point, I can't say there is a better method available for me. How is it cheapest? You have currency conversion on both sides which is a lot more expensive than using the worst bank. And if you hold bitcoin then the value does interest you.
- gexla 12y ago
  Right, I have to convert USD to Bitcoin and then Bitcoin to USD. I haven't worked out the cost of what this would be compared to my current options. In my case, it's still cheaper, but that may not be the case for others. Coinbase charges a fee to convert on their end, but the exchange has a much small fee on their end. Getting the money sent from the exchange to me can be free depending on the option. Otherwise I have the currency exchange rate and the a mess of options. I simply pull money from my bank via the local ATM's and that costs me around $5 / pop plus the exchange costs. On top of that I'm usually getting paid via Paypal, which is another fee to get paid. Other people use Western Union or Xoom, which is expensive. Bank to bank transfers are tricky. The most direct route is a wire transfer, which is spendy. The other option is an e-transfer, but that's not straightforward since the U.S. isn't on the same system that the Philippines is on. There are certain banks here which can pull it off I believe, but you need for these banks to be located close to you. And that's if you can even get a bank account here. It's not a huge barrier, but not everyone can get one. There are tons of options but most involve fees on top of the conversion costs. Then there is speed, which is also important for me. Right now, Bitcoin is looking to be the best option available for a lot of people here. Edit: Whoops, forgot to mention that I wouldn't be holding Bitcoin. I would be using it as a transfer medium.
  - foobarqux 12y ago
    I seriously doubt Bitcoin is your best option if you are dealing with any significant amount of money. What are you trying to do, how much money are you trying to move and how often?
rhlhkr 12y ago
tips fedora

by gexla 12y ago

gexla 12y ago

You guys have got to be kidding me. I write a comment about transferring money to a 3rd world nation, which is one of the greatest possible uses of Bitcoin in the future and my comment is getting attacked? Of course people in 3rd world nations won't hold Bitcoin. Low income workers can't afford any volatility and they often can't afford to hold anything anyways. What I'm trying to say is that Bitcoin is emerging as the best remittance option. This is one of the most exciting uses of Bitcoin. But it's not quite there yet for most people in the world. In the Philippines, it's here! If an option is good for remittances, it's also good for an expat to remit money to him / her self. In this scenario, we don't care about what the price is. What's the problem with that?

dragonwriter 12y ago
> In this scenario, we don't care about what the price is. You don't, but you rely on people who do on both ends, which means that the long-term viability in the use case you are interested in is dependent on the viability of Bitcoin to people who do care about the price, even if the people using it for your use case do not directly care about that.
- gexla 12y ago
  Maybe. We are getting into something which is a bit complex here. And I'm assuming neither one of us are experts. People who are interested in holding Bitcoin probably aren't people I'm going to be interacting with. If you are holding, you aren't selling. My use case will help Bitcoin by creating demand, and helping liquidity. I'm buying and then turning around and selling. I using up available liquidity and then selling to create more liquidity. That liquidity also helps other people looking to do the same as me. You then have a pool of Bitcoin which is basically just zipping between people who aren't affected by price. People who are speculating on the very short term don't necessarily care about price either. They may only care about up and down movements. Just as day traders of stocks don't necessarily care about the name of the stock or even the history. All they see is movement. In this case, volatility may actually be good for these people (I don't know, I'm not a day trader.)
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > People who are interested in holding Bitcoin probably aren't people I'm going to be interacting with. Sure they are. > If you are holding, you aren't selling. But if you are interested in holding, you are likely buying. And remittance use case requires you to interact with both a seller and a buyer. > I using up available liquidity and then selling to create more liquidity. Which is basically a net zero impact, but sure. > That liquidity also helps other people looking to do the same as me. You then have a pool of Bitcoin which is basically just zipping between people who aren't affected by price. Except that if you want those transactions to get processed, you need miners, who are interested in price, since they get paid in bitcoins (mining new blocks and/or transaction fees; over time moving from the former as the main reward to the latter.)

kasey_junk 12y ago

Just as a heads up, you will still need to care about price for volatility risk reasons. Hedging bitcoin volatility risk is a major concern for its adoption.

gexla 12y ago
Bitcoin has a lot of utility outside of just holding. I didn't specifically say I would be holding. Rather, I would be using it for money transfer.
- kasey_junk 12y ago
  There is still volatility risk in money transfer (in fact large treasury groups spend a lot of time/money on this problem).

valas 12y ago

Why you don't care about the price? In the end, money is just means to an end, e.g. to improve your life comfort. If one day someone transferred you X amount of potential comfort and then the next day you see you very suddenly have 0.80*X left, aren't you upset?

the_mitsuhiko 12y ago

> As a U.S. citizen living abroad, Bitcoin is now at the intersection of cheapest, fast (but not instant) and most convenient for receiving my money. There are exchanges here which work automatically and have lots of options for me to receive my money. At this point, I can't say there is a better method available for me. How is it cheapest? You have currency conversion on both sides which is a lot more expensive than using the worst bank. And if you hold bitcoin then the value does interest you.

gexla 12y ago
Right, I have to convert USD to Bitcoin and then Bitcoin to USD. I haven't worked out the cost of what this would be compared to my current options. In my case, it's still cheaper, but that may not be the case for others. Coinbase charges a fee to convert on their end, but the exchange has a much small fee on their end. Getting the money sent from the exchange to me can be free depending on the option. Otherwise I have the currency exchange rate and the a mess of options. I simply pull money from my bank via the local ATM's and that costs me around $5 / pop plus the exchange costs. On top of that I'm usually getting paid via Paypal, which is another fee to get paid. Other people use Western Union or Xoom, which is expensive. Bank to bank transfers are tricky. The most direct route is a wire transfer, which is spendy. The other option is an e-transfer, but that's not straightforward since the U.S. isn't on the same system that the Philippines is on. There are certain banks here which can pull it off I believe, but you need for these banks to be located close to you. And that's if you can even get a bank account here. It's not a huge barrier, but not everyone can get one. There are tons of options but most involve fees on top of the conversion costs. Then there is speed, which is also important for me. Right now, Bitcoin is looking to be the best option available for a lot of people here. Edit: Whoops, forgot to mention that I wouldn't be holding Bitcoin. I would be using it as a transfer medium.
- foobarqux 12y ago
  I seriously doubt Bitcoin is your best option if you are dealing with any significant amount of money. What are you trying to do, how much money are you trying to move and how often?

rhlhkr 12y ago

tips fedora