7 ms·

Ask YC: Are there any startups using ASP.NET?

24 points by kilik 19y ago

Seems like the number is small...but I'm still curious. Bonus Question: Why did you pick the web framework that you are currently using?

dbrush 19y ago
Splashup.com
- ivankirigin 19y ago
  What are the benefits? What is bad about it?
  - dbrush 19y ago
    After trying a few different languages .NET was definitely the fastest outside of C/C++. I didn't feel like learning C++ and then having to build a homebrew everything on top of it. My history is primarily ECMAScript, so it was very easy for me to pick up C#. Going between ActionScript 3 and C# constantly is a breeze. I couldn't imagine going between say.. Lisp and ActionScript 20 times a day. It would be such a detriment to my productivity.
    - cellis 19y ago
      Seriously, I agree 100%. I code in AS3/ JS/ and C# without a problem. Anytime I have to write SQL or VB (for my newly acquired day job), I cringe because of the syntax. Gotta love those curly brackets :}
    - sosuke 19y ago
      Thats reassuring to hear as I am just now picking up C# ASP.NET and am coming from the ECMAScript background. Thanks for your insights.
run4yourlives 19y ago
plentyoffish.com
cellis 19y ago
I plan on using it.
sbarbour 19y ago
I'm using it, basically because I'm extremely familiar with it. No ramp up time trying to suss out new language and framework specific work-arounds.
jeffw 19y ago
eppraisal.com
tx 19y ago
There are plenty of startups using ASP.NET or Java-based tech. In fact most companies started by "business types" are .NET/Java because they are easier to find disposable coders for. You don't see as many .NET shops here because most posters are (a) young, (b) non-business types, and they had a chance to pick a technology. Most went with something dynamic and Linux-based. We did too. We're on RoR, despite having tons of .NET expertise. And here is why: (a) speed of developemnt, (b) cost of decent dedicated hosting, (c) more fun
- axod 19y ago
  Please don't group Java together with .NET :D
  - Shorel 19y ago
    Why not? In a world with C++, Phyton, Ruby and Lisp both are very similar.
  - Goladus 19y ago
    System.Console.WriteLine("Hi, I'm a .NET library function for the CLR being called in C#"); System.out.println("Hi, I'm a Java library function for Java being called in Java"); Java The Language and C# are extremely similar, and if the differences bother you that much you can use J#. Java and .NET both provide managed runtime environments. Java and .NET both provide a large library of functions for that environment. I'd say if you're going to put Java and .NET into different categories, you should have some solid reasons, so let's hear them.
    - axod 19y ago
      Java and C#/C++ are very similar languages as far as I know. ASP.NET seems very similar to PHP. .NET just sounds a horrible mess. VB.NET? why would anyone touch anything that has a language 'visual' 'beginners'. Don't those two words hint at anything? Comparing Java (the language) to .NET (the system that lots of m$ languages run on) doesn't make much sense though IMHO.
jdavid 19y ago
we are using .net, anyone here an expert .net user? with "nhibernate" experiance? we want to move to mono on ec2 in 2008.
- DarrenStuart 19y ago
  have you checked out http://www.flexiscale.com/ http://www.flexiscale.com/ Its like s3 and ec2 combined and they have an sla. Its fairly easy to get it up and running and they have load balancing out features too.
  - jdavid 19y ago
    yeah, there are a few problems for us with their service, 1. we live in America and because our politicians suck so much, our currency is falling (go home ownership, at the cost of our currency, frickn idiots) and its hard to track what we are really spending on a service that bills in pounds. 2. they are expensive, and in some cases about 2x what ec2 is. 3. they do not have an image deployment system like amazon, nor do they have an s3 solution. all and all, i think that once we move to linux, with mono we will be better off, as we can run RoR, PHP, C#, and Java all side by side on a scalable server platform.
    - DarrenStuart 19y ago
      yeah good point I am in the uk. There storage system is integrated into the package and is actually pretty neat. They do have a way to setup your server and then save that setup and then startup other instances like it. I have not looked at mono for a while I might go back and have a look.
      - jdavid 19y ago
        a local .net developer claims that mono is really good at matching microsofts .net deployment in every way.
jdavid 19y ago
myspace moved to asp.net after they were bought by news corp.
- iamyoohoo 19y ago
  incorrect. they moved to .net when coldfusion started to have major scaling problems - inside info.
- simonw 19y ago
  My impression was that they moved to asp.net when they were having scaling problems and Microsoft promised them free consulting to solve those problems... provided they switched to .NET.
nreece 19y ago
At Feedity (http://www.feedity.com http://www.feedity.com) we have been using ASP.NET and C# (.NET 2) exclusively. Quite stable and scalable, even during surges. Recently we moved our application platform to a web farm (clustered hosting), and its working out quite well.
iamelgringo 19y ago
I'm finishing a survey of web development technologies class. We've covered everything from PHP to Perl + CGI, classic ASP and ASP.NET, and JSP. I spent this past summer learning RoR, and I plan on picking up Django next summer. [non-flame-bait personal opinion] And, I have to say that I came to a strong dislike for ASP.net. In fact I was carrying a 4.0 until this ASP.NET project. I disliked it so much, I didn't finish the project. Perhaps if I spent more time on it, It might fit a little better, but from what I"ve seen, I hate it mightily. The benefits: It works well with IIS and the Microsoft Server stack. If that's what you know, stick with it. You'll spend months learning unix shell commands, and file structure, and how to install things, etc... I'm more of a unix guy and prefer to develop with unix on the server side. If that's not your cup of tea, then stay on the Microsoft side of life. The cons: I also didn't like the idea of ASP.NET pages. I found it really combuersone to code all the labels in the body of the <script> tags, and then output them at the bottom in the html. I simply found it really hard to get my mind around the ASP.NET way. I really didn't want to understand the ASP.NET way, I guess. I don't like how it handles SQL queries. I found it burdensome and cumbersome to write 5-6 lines of code on every page that access the database, to set the SQL query to a variable, execute the query. put the SQL query into a reader, then transfer the reader to another variable that's usable. Too long, clanky, too long. And, doing that for every page you're working on: BOORRRIIIINnnnggg! :) Disclaimer I was just starting out with ASP.NET, and I'm sure there's tips and tricks that would speed development up, and I'm sure I went about things all wrong. It's just that Rails really spoiled me this past summer. with the MVC model. Set up database connections once, access what you need through active record. Variables are there for you in the controller. Spit them out and format them in your views. It's like Ron Popeil says about his rotisserie: You set it and forget it! [/non-flame-bait personal opinion]
- ubelt 19y ago
  iamelgringo, Have you tried Data Access Application Blocks? We use them and we only need 1 line of code to read the database. SqlHelper.ExecuteReader(strConnTxt, CommandType.Text, strSql); Alternatively, you can use SqlHelper.ExecuteDataset. We also use Code Generation software that builds all the CRUD methods automatically.
ubelt 19y ago
On top of my head: predictify.com loopt.com pickspal.com/pickspop.com triphub You can look at craigslist to get a feel of startups using .Net. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/jjj?query=c%23+startup http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/jjj?query=c%23+startup
ubelt 19y ago
I'm not generalizing but I know a lot of people who hate/won't use .Net mainly because it is a Microsoft product. What I believe is good with .Net is the 3rd-party support (free or commercial). The Visual Studio tool is also very easy to use and ramps up your development.
pius 19y ago
Nope, not a one. :P
DarrenStuart 19y ago
docstoc is .net I do believe. I use it and make a decent living programming it. Use the best tool for the job and don't bogged down with what is trendy. As someone already stated its easy to find talent. Also most of the fortune 100 websites use it. mySpace use it so it scales well enough. MVC is available for those that are willing to look around. However there is an official MVC toolset coming soon which will make some big gains on ROR. At least its not Java :p
prakash 19y ago
plentyoffish.com
jsjenkins168 19y ago
If you are not against Java you might want to check out JSF. Code your pages using Facelets though, its better than using JSP. JSF is nice because (unlike ASP.net) it cleanly separates behavior and presentation (its purely MVC). And its a component based architecture which is rendering format agnostic (HTML, WML, XHTML-MP, cHTML). So you can code one page which can render the contents in a different format depending on the client device. This is what the JSF MobileFaces library does when you hit the page from a mobile phone. It automatically renders the page in the proper format for the target device without the developer needing to worry about the details. The problem is JSF is complicated, which can be very frustrating. For this reason I just use it as the underlying framework, which basically just directs to my GWT pages.
- sohail 19y ago
  Thank you sir for justifying me staying away from all these frameworks.
  - jsjenkins168 19y ago
    What did I say that would justify you staying away? Java? I would take JSF over ASP.net any day. I consider ASP.Net to be on a similar level to old fashioned JSP (mixing and mashing of model and presentation all over the place). JSF on the other hand is a true MVC framework So my point is: JSF is very powerful if you can master it.
    - hello_moto 19y ago
      Wikipedia entry for JSF: "According to the author of the book Core JSF, JSF offers a means for Java to compete with ASP.NET/Visual Studio in the area of Rapid application development (RAD). The addition of the Sun Java Studio Creator IDE provides a RAD environment similar to Visual Studio 2005, potentially lowering development cost and other barriers to entry." So basically the world of J2EE pre-JSF is worse than ASP.NET and with JSF, J2EE is catching up with ASP.NET stack.
- michaelneale 19y ago
damon 19y ago
I recommend asp.net to all my competitors!
- kogir 19y ago
  It's not such horrid advice to follow. As mentioned in another comment already, Loopt uses ASP.Net in addition to other Microsoft and open source technologies. If I could start over, I'd use it again. ASP.Net the framework is great. By framework I mean the request pipeline and everything else on which the high level items like the TextControl are built atop. There's a lot of crap at the top (built in controls, page viewstate, etc), but you're not forced to use it. Hooks are exposed at almost every level of the stack where you can override the default behavior to do what you want (and I do). The trick is knowing when to NOT use the built in stuff. Also of note is that while ASP.Net necessitates IIS and Windows, it doesn't lock you down any further if you're willing to take a few risks (no vendor support). From the beginning Loopt's website has used a custom session state provider: At first it stored all user state in encrypted cookies, but now it's moving to a fault tolerant, distributed Erlang based store. Results from PostgreSQL servers running on FreeBSD power many of our GIS based features. *nix based boxes perform all of Loopt's geocoding and map generation tasks. At Loopt we try to pick the best tool for the job. Sometimes it's sold by Microsoft. Sidenote: You can pay for Microsoft software on a per box per month basis, and only pay for what you use. I think that Windows Server Web Edition is only about $10/box/month. Not actually that big a deal in the big scheme of things. For example, good developers are WAY more expensive than software =P
  - hello_moto 19y ago
    Thanks for the insight kogir. There are a lot of young people that don't really know MS pricing scheme.
henning 19y ago
There are plenty of companies using ASP.NET.
- nailer 19y ago
  There's a re plenty of companies using Fortran too. The poster asked specifically about startups.
sohail 19y ago
I have used ASP.NET, CGI, CherrryPy, some of these in anger. I am currently looking at Common Lisp. I have been burned by MS too many times and I don't need their blessing to program. I posted these links yesterday as well, but if you are interested, I am updating my blog with my adventures into a web app in Common Lisp: http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/web-programming-frameworks.html http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/web-programming-framewor... http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/update-web-programming-frameworks.html http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/update-web-programming-f... http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/lisp-web-framework-designer.html http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/lisp-web-framework-desig... All in all, I find that Common Lisp + Slime is a great environment to develop in. All the tools you need are there, there is just the matter of a small investment of time.
boucher 19y ago
Although I'm sure the answer is no, I'd be interested in knowing if anyone here had ever even considered using WebObjects for development.
- dcurtis 19y ago
  I think the entire Apple.com store is developed in WebObjects. I have never heard of any other site using it, though.
  - boucher 19y ago
    It is used widely by Apple -- iTunes uses it as well, as does .Mac. It has a few users outside Apple, but as far as I know the number is incredibly small. I'm curious if anyone even thinks about it anymore, its been off the radar screen for a while I think. It is, however, very powerful.
    - dcurtis 19y ago
      Does anyone know of ANY other users of WebObjects? I can't seem to find any, anywhere.
      - DarrenStuart 19y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects has a list of sites using it. not sure how up to date it is but there is nothing special there.
sadiq 19y ago
The biggest issue (and the reason i'm not using it) is vendor lock-in. If the next version of Windows Server requires something crazy or has a massive price hike, you either accept it or have to port your entire system. With Java, I don't have that problem. I can pick and choose the best platforms and technologies for the job. With ASP.NET you're pretty much stuck with the Microsoft ecosystem.
- mxh 19y ago
  I agree with this sentiment, and would add a few (somewhat) related reasons. a.) 'Planet Microsoft'. By this, I mean the gravitational pull all MSFT products seem to exert on one another, apparently by design and decree of the marketing department. With open-source stuff, it seems like I can mix-n-match components pretty freely. I can use Django on BSD, or Linux. With MySQL, or PostgreSQL. I can use its built-in templating, or not. With MSFT, it seems like I'd better be using Win2K3+SQL2K5+IIS6+ASP.NET or I'm taking my life in my hands. (And, when upgrade time comes, I better upgrade 'em all, or I'll have problems. And I better upgrade every system or they won't talk to each other.) Presumably MSFT could make its products more standalone, but prefers not to. b.) Inevitable screwage. I believe MSFT's goal is to establish itself as an unavoidable presence in the IT business (ala the bad old days of DOS) and then use that position to demand money. For the moment, thanks to open standards, they can't do that. I'm not interested in helping them change that by using/endorsing their technology stack. c.) MSFT MVPs. More generally, MSFT people. With all due respect to any Planet Microsoft hackers hereabouts, there is an enormous lack of perspective found in people who've only used MSFT tools; they tend to think 'One Microsoft Way' is a viable approach to building code, and not just an address. If you're reading this, and that offends you, I hereby acknowledge that there are exceptions, and you're probably one. I don't want to flame anyone, I just want to share an honest reason why I'd prefer to avoid the MSFT stack.
  - hello_moto 19y ago
    What makes upgrade better in other technology world compare to MS? Last time I checked, other technologies are rarely backward compatible, cut support for previous version not too long after new release is out, tons of controversies on newer releases. One choice is not to upgrade at all. No big deal I assume. It's not like you're going to write a lot more of new code. What makes you think open standards are better? just because they're open thus they're better? how about the technology value behind it? 'One Microsoft Way' isn't overly bad. At least it doesn't waste your time trying to decide which one is better (Rails vs PHP vs Django vs TurboGears vs Pylons vs Symfony vs JSF). You know what, these are the example of wasting your time: Servlet (need template)-> JSP/Servlet (not good enough) -> Struts (some design mistakes) -> Spring (mkay.. well) -> JSF (oh, we finally catch ASP.NET up) PHP -> PEAR -> Symfony/CakePHP/Ignition I wouldn't say Python stack is "wasting your time" yet but time will tell how long Django/TurboGears/Pylons will last. They're cool frameworks and I like Python more than C#. But I haven't really heard much from their communities lately other than the Django book had finally been released after deadline slips (I know they have good reasons but whatever).
sosuke 19y ago
I am doing a startup in ASP.NET 2.0 because its easy money. The developers make hand over fist when compared to similar open PHP positions. As to the technical reasoning, I started web development in PHP for 2 years before working with .NET and so far I am supremely impressed with some of the things that just work. The startup to get running is really slow but I think things will pickup as I continue development.
danw 19y ago
Right here, the startup I'm at uses ASP.Net and for us it's an advantage.
nkohari 19y ago
I'm disappointed that no one here has mentioned MonoRail (www.castleproject.org). When people say they hate ASP.NET, what they're really saying is that they hate WebForms. WebForms are an abomination that should be stricken from the earth. MonoRail is a web MVC system for ASP.NET, originally based on ActionPack from RoR.
dbrush 19y ago
Splashup is hiring .NET developers, as it were. Anyone interested should email me at dave@splashup.com
nailer 19y ago
The article below includes a script to test yourself. http://www.venturecake.com/web-20-is-built-on-open-source/ http://www.venturecake.com/web-20-is-built-on-open-source/
theyoungceo 19y ago
I built my entire startup on .NET because I think the feature set is richer, Visual Studio is a great tool, and speed of development is faster. I've done extensive work in PHP and Java in the past and both were much harder to work with IMHO. I also have backend applicatiosn and mobile devices that run versions of the framework, so the entire solution lent itself very well to .NET. I happily paid windows server and SQL server 2005 licenses as well; money well spent. Feel free to crucify me now, but remember that customers don't care what you made it in -- just that it works and brings value to them.
- michaelneale 19y ago
  >Feel free to crucify me now, but remember that customers don't care what you made it in -- just that it works and brings value to them. Fair comment.
- bigtoga 19y ago
  Ditto. As a startup, MSFT makes it insanely cheap and easy to get started - for $300 you can buy their "Action Pack" which includes Windows Server, SQL, Exchange, Office, etc licenses for up to 10 people. When you get ready to take the next step, it is $1400 per year for the MS Partner/MSDN package which adds full Visual Studio, etc.
andrewfong 19y ago
One of the student groups I did web work for back in college used a less-than-legit copy of ASP.NET. IMHO, it works well enough. I had limited *nix experience when I first started coding and Visual Studio lets you do things like drag and drop components and various HTML elements into a pseduo-WYSIWYG environment. The Windows Server environment also made it easy for us to train our non-tech people to remote login and do simple things like restart the server, fix typos on the site, and even execute basic SQL queries. That said, I'm using RoR now. Fast, easy to learn, and an active community.
dshah 19y ago
My startup, HubSpot (http://www.HubSpot.com http://www.HubSpot.com) is built on ASP.NET. Though there are certainly irritations and annoyances, it has worked fine for us.
DanielBMarkham 19y ago
I have been looking around for partners for the last few months and ran across something very interesting. Three guys, on three different occasions, said they wanted to go linux or nothing. Note that all of these conversations had nothing to do with the question of whether the business was viable or whether it could turn a profit. On a couple of occasions, we had some really good chemistry and the plan was looking hot. But they were convinced that ANY business idea that ran on .NET was a bad one. I've never had somebody say it had to be .NET or nothing. I'm not sure what that means, but there it is. It doesn't make much sense to me from a business standpoint.
- jsnx 19y ago
  I am definitely in sympathy with your three guys. Were they really convinced that "...any business idea that ran on .NET was a bad one." or just that it was Hell to work with .NET? > It doesn't make much sense to me from a business standpoint. It's really about quality of life. I tried using Windows for a spell, for XBox development -- I ended up running Linux under Moka5 for a userland, and then switching into Windows once in awhile to kick the XBox. Until I got that in place, I was miserable.
tpatke 19y ago
Using it. Name a company other then MSFT which spend BILLIONS every year building a development platform. How can anyone suggest that after 20 years of billion dollar investments including contributions from the top minds in computer science - that Ruby is the better PLATFORM? It is not about the language, it is about the platform. btw: I have full java certification and work full time as a java developer. Java sucks.

Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

24 points by kilik 19y ago

Seems like the number is small...but I'm still curious. Bonus Question: Why did you pick the web framework that you are currently using?

dbrush 19y ago

Splashup.com

ivankirigin 19y ago
What are the benefits? What is bad about it?
- dbrush 19y ago
  After trying a few different languages .NET was definitely the fastest outside of C/C++. I didn't feel like learning C++ and then having to build a homebrew everything on top of it. My history is primarily ECMAScript, so it was very easy for me to pick up C#. Going between ActionScript 3 and C# constantly is a breeze. I couldn't imagine going between say.. Lisp and ActionScript 20 times a day. It would be such a detriment to my productivity.
  - cellis 19y ago
    Seriously, I agree 100%. I code in AS3/ JS/ and C# without a problem. Anytime I have to write SQL or VB (for my newly acquired day job), I cringe because of the syntax. Gotta love those curly brackets :}
  - sosuke 19y ago
    Thats reassuring to hear as I am just now picking up C# ASP.NET and am coming from the ECMAScript background. Thanks for your insights.

run4yourlives 19y ago

plentyoffish.com

cellis 19y ago

I plan on using it.

sbarbour 19y ago

I'm using it, basically because I'm extremely familiar with it. No ramp up time trying to suss out new language and framework specific work-arounds.

jeffw 19y ago

eppraisal.com

tx 19y ago

There are plenty of startups using ASP.NET or Java-based tech. In fact most companies started by "business types" are .NET/Java because they are easier to find disposable coders for. You don't see as many .NET shops here because most posters are (a) young, (b) non-business types, and they had a chance to pick a technology. Most went with something dynamic and Linux-based. We did too. We're on RoR, despite having tons of .NET expertise. And here is why: (a) speed of developemnt, (b) cost of decent dedicated hosting, (c) more fun

axod 19y ago
Please don't group Java together with .NET :D
- Shorel 19y ago
  Why not? In a world with C++, Phyton, Ruby and Lisp both are very similar.
- Goladus 19y ago
  System.Console.WriteLine("Hi, I'm a .NET library function for the CLR being called in C#"); System.out.println("Hi, I'm a Java library function for Java being called in Java"); Java The Language and C# are extremely similar, and if the differences bother you that much you can use J#. Java and .NET both provide managed runtime environments. Java and .NET both provide a large library of functions for that environment. I'd say if you're going to put Java and .NET into different categories, you should have some solid reasons, so let's hear them.
  - axod 19y ago
    Java and C#/C++ are very similar languages as far as I know. ASP.NET seems very similar to PHP. .NET just sounds a horrible mess. VB.NET? why would anyone touch anything that has a language 'visual' 'beginners'. Don't those two words hint at anything? Comparing Java (the language) to .NET (the system that lots of m$ languages run on) doesn't make much sense though IMHO.

jdavid 19y ago

we are using .net, anyone here an expert .net user? with "nhibernate" experiance? we want to move to mono on ec2 in 2008.

DarrenStuart 19y ago
have you checked out http://www.flexiscale.com/ http://www.flexiscale.com/ Its like s3 and ec2 combined and they have an sla. Its fairly easy to get it up and running and they have load balancing out features too.
- jdavid 19y ago
  yeah, there are a few problems for us with their service, 1. we live in America and because our politicians suck so much, our currency is falling (go home ownership, at the cost of our currency, frickn idiots) and its hard to track what we are really spending on a service that bills in pounds. 2. they are expensive, and in some cases about 2x what ec2 is. 3. they do not have an image deployment system like amazon, nor do they have an s3 solution. all and all, i think that once we move to linux, with mono we will be better off, as we can run RoR, PHP, C#, and Java all side by side on a scalable server platform.
  - DarrenStuart 19y ago
    yeah good point I am in the uk. There storage system is integrated into the package and is actually pretty neat. They do have a way to setup your server and then save that setup and then startup other instances like it. I have not looked at mono for a while I might go back and have a look.
    - jdavid 19y ago
      a local .net developer claims that mono is really good at matching microsofts .net deployment in every way.

jdavid 19y ago

myspace moved to asp.net after they were bought by news corp.

iamyoohoo 19y ago
incorrect. they moved to .net when coldfusion started to have major scaling problems - inside info.
simonw 19y ago
My impression was that they moved to asp.net when they were having scaling problems and Microsoft promised them free consulting to solve those problems... provided they switched to .NET.

nreece 19y ago

At Feedity (http://www.feedity.com http://www.feedity.com) we have been using ASP.NET and C# (.NET 2) exclusively. Quite stable and scalable, even during surges. Recently we moved our application platform to a web farm (clustered hosting), and its working out quite well.

iamelgringo 19y ago

I'm finishing a survey of web development technologies class. We've covered everything from PHP to Perl + CGI, classic ASP and ASP.NET, and JSP. I spent this past summer learning RoR, and I plan on picking up Django next summer. [non-flame-bait personal opinion] And, I have to say that I came to a strong dislike for ASP.net. In fact I was carrying a 4.0 until this ASP.NET project. I disliked it so much, I didn't finish the project. Perhaps if I spent more time on it, It might fit a little better, but from what I"ve seen, I hate it mightily. The benefits: It works well with IIS and the Microsoft Server stack. If that's what you know, stick with it. You'll spend months learning unix shell commands, and file structure, and how to install things, etc... I'm more of a unix guy and prefer to develop with unix on the server side. If that's not your cup of tea, then stay on the Microsoft side of life. The cons: I also didn't like the idea of ASP.NET pages. I found it really combuersone to code all the labels in the body of the <script> tags, and then output them at the bottom in the html. I simply found it really hard to get my mind around the ASP.NET way. I really didn't want to understand the ASP.NET way, I guess. I don't like how it handles SQL queries. I found it burdensome and cumbersome to write 5-6 lines of code on every page that access the database, to set the SQL query to a variable, execute the query. put the SQL query into a reader, then transfer the reader to another variable that's usable. Too long, clanky, too long. And, doing that for every page you're working on: BOORRRIIIINnnnggg! :) Disclaimer I was just starting out with ASP.NET, and I'm sure there's tips and tricks that would speed development up, and I'm sure I went about things all wrong. It's just that Rails really spoiled me this past summer. with the MVC model. Set up database connections once, access what you need through active record. Variables are there for you in the controller. Spit them out and format them in your views. It's like Ron Popeil says about his rotisserie: You set it and forget it! [/non-flame-bait personal opinion]

ubelt 19y ago
iamelgringo, Have you tried Data Access Application Blocks? We use them and we only need 1 line of code to read the database. SqlHelper.ExecuteReader(strConnTxt, CommandType.Text, strSql); Alternatively, you can use SqlHelper.ExecuteDataset. We also use Code Generation software that builds all the CRUD methods automatically.

ubelt 19y ago

On top of my head: predictify.com loopt.com pickspal.com/pickspop.com triphub You can look at craigslist to get a feel of startups using .Net. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/jjj?query=c%23+startup http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/jjj?query=c%23+startup

ubelt 19y ago

I'm not generalizing but I know a lot of people who hate/won't use .Net mainly because it is a Microsoft product. What I believe is good with .Net is the 3rd-party support (free or commercial). The Visual Studio tool is also very easy to use and ramps up your development.

pius 19y ago

Nope, not a one. :P

DarrenStuart 19y ago

docstoc is .net I do believe. I use it and make a decent living programming it. Use the best tool for the job and don't bogged down with what is trendy. As someone already stated its easy to find talent. Also most of the fortune 100 websites use it. mySpace use it so it scales well enough. MVC is available for those that are willing to look around. However there is an official MVC toolset coming soon which will make some big gains on ROR. At least its not Java :p

prakash 19y ago

plentyoffish.com

jsjenkins168 19y ago

If you are not against Java you might want to check out JSF. Code your pages using Facelets though, its better than using JSP. JSF is nice because (unlike ASP.net) it cleanly separates behavior and presentation (its purely MVC). And its a component based architecture which is rendering format agnostic (HTML, WML, XHTML-MP, cHTML). So you can code one page which can render the contents in a different format depending on the client device. This is what the JSF MobileFaces library does when you hit the page from a mobile phone. It automatically renders the page in the proper format for the target device without the developer needing to worry about the details. The problem is JSF is complicated, which can be very frustrating. For this reason I just use it as the underlying framework, which basically just directs to my GWT pages.

sohail 19y ago
Thank you sir for justifying me staying away from all these frameworks.
- jsjenkins168 19y ago
  What did I say that would justify you staying away? Java? I would take JSF over ASP.net any day. I consider ASP.Net to be on a similar level to old fashioned JSP (mixing and mashing of model and presentation all over the place). JSF on the other hand is a true MVC framework So my point is: JSF is very powerful if you can master it.
  - hello_moto 19y ago
    Wikipedia entry for JSF: "According to the author of the book Core JSF, JSF offers a means for Java to compete with ASP.NET/Visual Studio in the area of Rapid application development (RAD). The addition of the Sun Java Studio Creator IDE provides a RAD environment similar to Visual Studio 2005, potentially lowering development cost and other barriers to entry." So basically the world of J2EE pre-JSF is worse than ASP.NET and with JSF, J2EE is catching up with ASP.NET stack.
michaelneale 19y ago

damon 19y ago

I recommend asp.net to all my competitors!

kogir 19y ago
It's not such horrid advice to follow. As mentioned in another comment already, Loopt uses ASP.Net in addition to other Microsoft and open source technologies. If I could start over, I'd use it again. ASP.Net the framework is great. By framework I mean the request pipeline and everything else on which the high level items like the TextControl are built atop. There's a lot of crap at the top (built in controls, page viewstate, etc), but you're not forced to use it. Hooks are exposed at almost every level of the stack where you can override the default behavior to do what you want (and I do). The trick is knowing when to NOT use the built in stuff. Also of note is that while ASP.Net necessitates IIS and Windows, it doesn't lock you down any further if you're willing to take a few risks (no vendor support). From the beginning Loopt's website has used a custom session state provider: At first it stored all user state in encrypted cookies, but now it's moving to a fault tolerant, distributed Erlang based store. Results from PostgreSQL servers running on FreeBSD power many of our GIS based features. *nix based boxes perform all of Loopt's geocoding and map generation tasks. At Loopt we try to pick the best tool for the job. Sometimes it's sold by Microsoft. Sidenote: You can pay for Microsoft software on a per box per month basis, and only pay for what you use. I think that Windows Server Web Edition is only about $10/box/month. Not actually that big a deal in the big scheme of things. For example, good developers are WAY more expensive than software =P
- hello_moto 19y ago
  Thanks for the insight kogir. There are a lot of young people that don't really know MS pricing scheme.

henning 19y ago

There are plenty of companies using ASP.NET.

nailer 19y ago
There's a re plenty of companies using Fortran too. The poster asked specifically about startups.

sohail 19y ago

I have used ASP.NET, CGI, CherrryPy, some of these in anger. I am currently looking at Common Lisp. I have been burned by MS too many times and I don't need their blessing to program. I posted these links yesterday as well, but if you are interested, I am updating my blog with my adventures into a web app in Common Lisp: http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/web-programming-frameworks.html http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/web-programming-framewor... http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/update-web-programming-frameworks.html http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/update-web-programming-f... http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/lisp-web-framework-designer.html http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/11/lisp-web-framework-desig... All in all, I find that Common Lisp + Slime is a great environment to develop in. All the tools you need are there, there is just the matter of a small investment of time.

boucher 19y ago

Although I'm sure the answer is no, I'd be interested in knowing if anyone here had ever even considered using WebObjects for development.

dcurtis 19y ago
I think the entire Apple.com store is developed in WebObjects. I have never heard of any other site using it, though.
- boucher 19y ago
  It is used widely by Apple -- iTunes uses it as well, as does .Mac. It has a few users outside Apple, but as far as I know the number is incredibly small. I'm curious if anyone even thinks about it anymore, its been off the radar screen for a while I think. It is, however, very powerful.
  - dcurtis 19y ago
    Does anyone know of ANY other users of WebObjects? I can't seem to find any, anywhere.
    - DarrenStuart 19y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects has a list of sites using it. not sure how up to date it is but there is nothing special there.

sadiq 19y ago

The biggest issue (and the reason i'm not using it) is vendor lock-in. If the next version of Windows Server requires something crazy or has a massive price hike, you either accept it or have to port your entire system. With Java, I don't have that problem. I can pick and choose the best platforms and technologies for the job. With ASP.NET you're pretty much stuck with the Microsoft ecosystem.

mxh 19y ago
I agree with this sentiment, and would add a few (somewhat) related reasons. a.) 'Planet Microsoft'. By this, I mean the gravitational pull all MSFT products seem to exert on one another, apparently by design and decree of the marketing department. With open-source stuff, it seems like I can mix-n-match components pretty freely. I can use Django on BSD, or Linux. With MySQL, or PostgreSQL. I can use its built-in templating, or not. With MSFT, it seems like I'd better be using Win2K3+SQL2K5+IIS6+ASP.NET or I'm taking my life in my hands. (And, when upgrade time comes, I better upgrade 'em all, or I'll have problems. And I better upgrade every system or they won't talk to each other.) Presumably MSFT could make its products more standalone, but prefers not to. b.) Inevitable screwage. I believe MSFT's goal is to establish itself as an unavoidable presence in the IT business (ala the bad old days of DOS) and then use that position to demand money. For the moment, thanks to open standards, they can't do that. I'm not interested in helping them change that by using/endorsing their technology stack. c.) MSFT MVPs. More generally, MSFT people. With all due respect to any Planet Microsoft hackers hereabouts, there is an enormous lack of perspective found in people who've only used MSFT tools; they tend to think 'One Microsoft Way' is a viable approach to building code, and not just an address. If you're reading this, and that offends you, I hereby acknowledge that there are exceptions, and you're probably one. I don't want to flame anyone, I just want to share an honest reason why I'd prefer to avoid the MSFT stack.
- hello_moto 19y ago
  What makes upgrade better in other technology world compare to MS? Last time I checked, other technologies are rarely backward compatible, cut support for previous version not too long after new release is out, tons of controversies on newer releases. One choice is not to upgrade at all. No big deal I assume. It's not like you're going to write a lot more of new code. What makes you think open standards are better? just because they're open thus they're better? how about the technology value behind it? 'One Microsoft Way' isn't overly bad. At least it doesn't waste your time trying to decide which one is better (Rails vs PHP vs Django vs TurboGears vs Pylons vs Symfony vs JSF). You know what, these are the example of wasting your time: Servlet (need template)-> JSP/Servlet (not good enough) -> Struts (some design mistakes) -> Spring (mkay.. well) -> JSF (oh, we finally catch ASP.NET up) PHP -> PEAR -> Symfony/CakePHP/Ignition I wouldn't say Python stack is "wasting your time" yet but time will tell how long Django/TurboGears/Pylons will last. They're cool frameworks and I like Python more than C#. But I haven't really heard much from their communities lately other than the Django book had finally been released after deadline slips (I know they have good reasons but whatever).

sosuke 19y ago

I am doing a startup in ASP.NET 2.0 because its easy money. The developers make hand over fist when compared to similar open PHP positions. As to the technical reasoning, I started web development in PHP for 2 years before working with .NET and so far I am supremely impressed with some of the things that just work. The startup to get running is really slow but I think things will pickup as I continue development.

danw 19y ago

Right here, the startup I'm at uses ASP.Net and for us it's an advantage.

nkohari 19y ago

I'm disappointed that no one here has mentioned MonoRail (www.castleproject.org). When people say they hate ASP.NET, what they're really saying is that they hate WebForms. WebForms are an abomination that should be stricken from the earth. MonoRail is a web MVC system for ASP.NET, originally based on ActionPack from RoR.

dbrush 19y ago

Splashup is hiring .NET developers, as it were. Anyone interested should email me at dave@splashup.com

nailer 19y ago

The article below includes a script to test yourself. http://www.venturecake.com/web-20-is-built-on-open-source/ http://www.venturecake.com/web-20-is-built-on-open-source/

theyoungceo 19y ago

I built my entire startup on .NET because I think the feature set is richer, Visual Studio is a great tool, and speed of development is faster. I've done extensive work in PHP and Java in the past and both were much harder to work with IMHO. I also have backend applicatiosn and mobile devices that run versions of the framework, so the entire solution lent itself very well to .NET. I happily paid windows server and SQL server 2005 licenses as well; money well spent. Feel free to crucify me now, but remember that customers don't care what you made it in -- just that it works and brings value to them.

michaelneale 19y ago
>Feel free to crucify me now, but remember that customers don't care what you made it in -- just that it works and brings value to them. Fair comment.
bigtoga 19y ago
Ditto. As a startup, MSFT makes it insanely cheap and easy to get started - for $300 you can buy their "Action Pack" which includes Windows Server, SQL, Exchange, Office, etc licenses for up to 10 people. When you get ready to take the next step, it is $1400 per year for the MS Partner/MSDN package which adds full Visual Studio, etc.

andrewfong 19y ago

One of the student groups I did web work for back in college used a less-than-legit copy of ASP.NET. IMHO, it works well enough. I had limited *nix experience when I first started coding and Visual Studio lets you do things like drag and drop components and various HTML elements into a pseduo-WYSIWYG environment. The Windows Server environment also made it easy for us to train our non-tech people to remote login and do simple things like restart the server, fix typos on the site, and even execute basic SQL queries. That said, I'm using RoR now. Fast, easy to learn, and an active community.

dshah 19y ago

My startup, HubSpot (http://www.HubSpot.com http://www.HubSpot.com) is built on ASP.NET. Though there are certainly irritations and annoyances, it has worked fine for us.

DanielBMarkham 19y ago

I have been looking around for partners for the last few months and ran across something very interesting. Three guys, on three different occasions, said they wanted to go linux or nothing. Note that all of these conversations had nothing to do with the question of whether the business was viable or whether it could turn a profit. On a couple of occasions, we had some really good chemistry and the plan was looking hot. But they were convinced that ANY business idea that ran on .NET was a bad one. I've never had somebody say it had to be .NET or nothing. I'm not sure what that means, but there it is. It doesn't make much sense to me from a business standpoint.

jsnx 19y ago
I am definitely in sympathy with your three guys. Were they really convinced that "...any business idea that ran on .NET was a bad one." or just that it was Hell to work with .NET? > It doesn't make much sense to me from a business standpoint. It's really about quality of life. I tried using Windows for a spell, for XBox development -- I ended up running Linux under Moka5 for a userland, and then switching into Windows once in awhile to kick the XBox. Until I got that in place, I was miserable.

tpatke 19y ago

Using it. Name a company other then MSFT which spend BILLIONS every year building a development platform. How can anyone suggest that after 20 years of billion dollar investments including contributions from the top minds in computer science - that Ruby is the better PLATFORM? It is not about the language, it is about the platform. btw: I have full java certification and work full time as a java developer. Java sucks.