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I think there's too much focus these days on what you can get for the money, and not what you can get. You have one life, why fill it with particle board and C

I think there's too much focus these days on what you can get for the money, and not what you can get. You have one life, why fill it with particle board and Chinese plastic smell? Why not save up and buy things that last. That bring joy to your life and enrich it. Why buy a three dollar Chinese screwdriver with an imprecisely cut point that strips every fifth screw, when for ten dollars you can get a precision cut, tempered, and coated american made screwdriver that feels weighty and good in your hands. That doesn't strip those screws and makes your job a little more joyful. America needs to bring back the craftsman and the appreciation for craftsmanship. The LVL1 hackerspace in Louisville just moved into an old factory and I am constantly stunned by the workmanship that went into that old building. The architect filled the place with light using angled windows, but it doesn't get hot. Even the wood floors are beautifully made (and this was for factory work). Surrounding yourself with crafted things allows you to think on a higher plane. You know what is possible because you are surrounded with it. If you surround yourself with cheap replaceable junk you become capable of crafting and expecting only cheap replaceable junk. That's why I can buy so much expensive furniture off craigslist for pennies. People have lost the ability to tell that that slightly scuffed up dresser couldn't be purchased for under eight grand new.

bane 12y ago
I don't disagree with your main premise - in fact I very much agree with it. Beautiful tools are inspiring to work with. But this doesn't actually seem to be that good of camera no matter how you look at it and looking at other serious reviews it doesn't seem to be all that well crafted either. There's a difference between good, but sometimes funky, craftsmanship and gimmicks. The T seems to be more on the gimmick side of things.
- dammitcoetzee 12y ago
  I agree, but, have you looked at the cars today? I can honestly not tell the difference in silhouette between a mustang and an acura these days. You can stick as much chrome on the outside of the thing you want in different patterns, but they are the same car. It's not that I don't know that the Leica isn't a super great camera, but the fact that they tried to make something to a higher design goal than, "it should just work" carries some weight. Just working is very important, but you can go past it. There were tons of mp3 players that just worked before the ipod. Arguably my rio mp3 player worked and sounded better than the ipod. however, the ipod was something that resonated with people. When you put soul into something your soul responds. I hate saying metaphysical junk like that, but anyone who has experienced a truly well designed object or seen a to a perfectly executed musical performance knows this feeling. I mean, design these days is boring and unenriching. Go to amazon and search for water filtering pitchers. Do any of those inspire you? Are any of them beautiful? Are any of them even nice to use? If you read the reviews they are full of, "it filters water alright, but": the lid is awkward, the handle cracks off after a few months, the old version had more thought in it, the edges of the plastic are sharp, etc. Something can fully and completely fulfill it's primary purpose and still be poorly designed. Still be a joyless disposable object.
  - bane 12y ago
    Yeah, I know what you're saying. It's like getting into an old MG Roadster. Not very fast, unreliable, noisy. But damn if it isn't fun and beautiful to get around in. It's inspiring and it does what it's designed to do, give you a dramatic, noisy, wind blown time out in the country. http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/mg/b/1673922.html http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/mg/b/1673922.html But this camera seems more like something people buy who want to be seen with it, a fashion-vanity item. And I think that's an important distinction to make.
caycep 12y ago
At this rate, beautiful things are also made in China...the expertise is there, you just have to put together the right specs in your order... With all the manufacturing experience over there, one can argue the best craftsmanship and knowhow are located in Shenzhen at this time. "Are you kidding, Doc? All the best stuff is 'Made in Japan'!" "Astounding!"
potatolicious 12y ago
> "I think there's too much focus these days on what you can get for the money, and not what you can get." Agree, but with the Leica T you're not really getting much either. Even if it was priced at the same level as the prosumer Sony/Olympus/Fuji cameras it's still a dud. The body itself is immaculately crafted, that's to be certain - I've actually held one and it feels great. But the software sucks, the controls are awkward, the screen is mediocre, and basic functions of a camera like autofocus are slow. It's a showpiece, not a workhorse, regardless of the price. This isn't the Ferrari everyone likes to compare Leicas to, it's paying $300K for a Lada encrusted with diamonds. I'm not above paying for good design and manufacturing, but it needs to hit the baseline of being a good camera first. I'd buy a Leica M (well, if I had more money) but there's no way I'd touch either the T or the even-more-cash-grabby X-Vario. For another example of style-over-substance camera (or really just style-without-substance), see the Hasselblad Lunar.
georgemcbay 12y ago
"Why not save up and buy things that last." Camera bodies are pretty much the last thing I want to spend extra on so they "will last"; there's still so much more room for rapid improvement (just look at how Sony is killing it right now with sensor tech compared to nearly everyone else). When it comes to lenses and other stuff (camera and non-camera), I'd agree somewhat with your premise, but any camera body I buy currently I expect to have for only about 2-3 years before I upgrade.
rdtsc 12y ago
> You have one life, why fill it with particle board and Chinese plastic smell? Because custom furniture and hardware made from a single block of aluminium would mean not having enough money for food and shelter.

bane 12y ago

I don't disagree with your main premise - in fact I very much agree with it. Beautiful tools are inspiring to work with. But this doesn't actually seem to be that good of camera no matter how you look at it and looking at other serious reviews it doesn't seem to be all that well crafted either. There's a difference between good, but sometimes funky, craftsmanship and gimmicks. The T seems to be more on the gimmick side of things.

dammitcoetzee 12y ago
I agree, but, have you looked at the cars today? I can honestly not tell the difference in silhouette between a mustang and an acura these days. You can stick as much chrome on the outside of the thing you want in different patterns, but they are the same car. It's not that I don't know that the Leica isn't a super great camera, but the fact that they tried to make something to a higher design goal than, "it should just work" carries some weight. Just working is very important, but you can go past it. There were tons of mp3 players that just worked before the ipod. Arguably my rio mp3 player worked and sounded better than the ipod. however, the ipod was something that resonated with people. When you put soul into something your soul responds. I hate saying metaphysical junk like that, but anyone who has experienced a truly well designed object or seen a to a perfectly executed musical performance knows this feeling. I mean, design these days is boring and unenriching. Go to amazon and search for water filtering pitchers. Do any of those inspire you? Are any of them beautiful? Are any of them even nice to use? If you read the reviews they are full of, "it filters water alright, but": the lid is awkward, the handle cracks off after a few months, the old version had more thought in it, the edges of the plastic are sharp, etc. Something can fully and completely fulfill it's primary purpose and still be poorly designed. Still be a joyless disposable object.
- bane 12y ago
  Yeah, I know what you're saying. It's like getting into an old MG Roadster. Not very fast, unreliable, noisy. But damn if it isn't fun and beautiful to get around in. It's inspiring and it does what it's designed to do, give you a dramatic, noisy, wind blown time out in the country. http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/mg/b/1673922.html http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/mg/b/1673922.html But this camera seems more like something people buy who want to be seen with it, a fashion-vanity item. And I think that's an important distinction to make.

caycep 12y ago

At this rate, beautiful things are also made in China...the expertise is there, you just have to put together the right specs in your order... With all the manufacturing experience over there, one can argue the best craftsmanship and knowhow are located in Shenzhen at this time. "Are you kidding, Doc? All the best stuff is 'Made in Japan'!" "Astounding!"

potatolicious 12y ago

> "I think there's too much focus these days on what you can get for the money, and not what you can get." Agree, but with the Leica T you're not really getting much either. Even if it was priced at the same level as the prosumer Sony/Olympus/Fuji cameras it's still a dud. The body itself is immaculately crafted, that's to be certain - I've actually held one and it feels great. But the software sucks, the controls are awkward, the screen is mediocre, and basic functions of a camera like autofocus are slow. It's a showpiece, not a workhorse, regardless of the price. This isn't the Ferrari everyone likes to compare Leicas to, it's paying $300K for a Lada encrusted with diamonds. I'm not above paying for good design and manufacturing, but it needs to hit the baseline of being a good camera first. I'd buy a Leica M (well, if I had more money) but there's no way I'd touch either the T or the even-more-cash-grabby X-Vario. For another example of style-over-substance camera (or really just style-without-substance), see the Hasselblad Lunar.

georgemcbay 12y ago

"Why not save up and buy things that last." Camera bodies are pretty much the last thing I want to spend extra on so they "will last"; there's still so much more room for rapid improvement (just look at how Sony is killing it right now with sensor tech compared to nearly everyone else). When it comes to lenses and other stuff (camera and non-camera), I'd agree somewhat with your premise, but any camera body I buy currently I expect to have for only about 2-3 years before I upgrade.

rdtsc 12y ago

> You have one life, why fill it with particle board and Chinese plastic smell? Because custom furniture and hardware made from a single block of aluminium would mean not having enough money for food and shelter.