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The cops in my town wear cameras. I also happen to be a firefighter/paramedic in my town. This has given me a reason to ponder these cameras quite a bit... It

The cops in my town wear cameras. I also happen to be a firefighter/paramedic in my town. This has given me a reason to ponder these cameras quite a bit... It's not uncommon for me to be in someone's house, while they are in some sort state that they would probably not want to have recorded (if someone is having a heart attack at 2 in the morning, they are not generally concerned about the fact that they sleep naked). Now you have a situation where a cop with a camera is walking into the room... Most folks don't even realize it's there (it's black, and blends in with their uniform pretty well). Should the LEO disclose he's wearing a camera? "Hey, I notice you just fell in the shower and are naked, soaking wet, and in an awkward position. Just FYI... I'm wearing a camera." This doesn't even begin to cover the HIPAA implications... In general, I'm very much in favor of cameras on cops. I think it helps keep everyone on their best behavior in potentially confrontational situations. That being said... I have been in situations where the presence of the camera has made me very uncomfortable.

dragonwriter 12y ago
> This doesn't even begin to cover the HIPAA implications... HIPAA doesn't generally apply to LEOs -- who are not covered entities (either health care providers nor payers) in the first place, so there probably aren't any HIPAA implications.
- JshWright 12y ago
  Probably... What if one of the cops who shows up happens to also be a part-time firefighter/paramedic, and lends a hand with patient care? What if the agency they occasionally work with is the agency that is providing care? Lines start to get blurrier... (This is a real world scenario that is not uncommon for us) Obviously the mere existence of the recording is still a long way from a violation, but I do find it troublesome at times...
  - learc83 12y ago
    >What if one of the cops who shows up happens to also be a part-time firefighter/paramedic, and lends a hand with patient care? Probably the same thing that happens if a cop with a dashcam shows up to a traffic accident. I don't know what it is that happens exactly, but it's a pretty common occurrence, so it seems likely that this scenario isn't that big of a problem.
    - JshWright 12y ago
      The amount of private health information that would be exposed in someone's bedroom, on a medical call (where a thorough interview is conducted, revealing all sorts of personal information) is _miles apart_ from what would be recorded by a dashcam at the scene of an accident.
      - learc83 12y ago
        >where a thorough interview is conducted, revealing all sorts of personal information Given the ubiquity of dashcams, I'm willing to bet that quite a few medical interviews that reveal a lot of personal information have been conducted in earshoot of a dashcam. What happens when a cop calls an ambulance to check someone out for possible injuries, and the ambulance parks next to the patrol cruiser? Do the paramedics ask the cop to turn his dashcam microphone off while hey ask questions? How would this medical call differ from one that happens in bedroom (other than the lack of personal effects)? Seems like this scenario probably isn't an order of magnitude less likely than a cop who's also a paramedic listening in on a medical call in someone's bedroom.
mabbo 12y ago
It's not like the police take the cameras, and immediately post them to youtube. If complaints are made, video can be reviewed by those who need to review it. If it needs to go to court, censoring can be added. I do see your point. I would counter with: if we are to claim we're free to record the actions of the police while they work, surely they have the right to record what goes on as well.
- gizmo686 12y ago
  > if we are to claim we're free to record the actions of the police while they work, surely they have the right to record what goes on as well. Not necessarily. The police are acting as government agents and as such have fewer rights to privacy.
- JshWright 12y ago
  Sure... my point is just that the issue is more complicated than it seems to be on the face of it... Law enforcement officers end up coming into contact with everyday people in very compromising positions, often through no fault of their own, and in their own homes. Like I said, I fall on the 'pro-camera' side of the debate, but there are a lot of often overlooked implications that I feel need to be part of the discussion.
  - sitkack 12y ago
    I think you are in the weeds at this point.
    - JshWright 12y ago
      Perhaps I am. I was simply trying to relate a personal experience with these cameras, and the fact that they have made me feel uncomfortable at times (for the sake of the folks I'm caring for). It seemed germane to the conversation. Maybe someday it'll be routine enough that it doesn't enter my mind. For right now, it's frankly a bit of a distraction (in situations where a distraction can literally be fatal).
golemotron 12y ago
> Should the LEO disclose he's wearing a camera? "Hey, I notice you just fell in the shower and are naked, soaking wet, and in an awkward position. Just FYI... I'm wearing a camera." All good concerns, but we have to remember that the TV show Cops has been doing this for what? 20 years now? I assume they have to get releases from everyone to put videos on the show, but they sure aren't getting releases when they walk into a house. If police-cams are mandated the footage should be put into a case file and only released under court order.
- StavrosK 12y ago
  > If police-cams are mandated the footage should be put into a case file and only released under court order. Because if there's one thing we can trust the government with, it's our private data!
baddox 12y ago
I agree that there is the possibility of privacy issues from camera footage being mismanaged or leaked, but I think that is less important than the direct police abuse that would probably be significantly thwarted by police body cameras.
sitkack 12y ago
Obviously the cameras should be * always on * encrypted (public key, the Court should have the private key) * have a GPS lock * automatically sync when they are in car and or back at base * be on the cellular network (timestamps and crypto signature of the captured stream), could even transmit officer vitals and location in realtime, could also sync in realtime over 4g connections The officers should not be able to turn them off or review the video. Missing footage would be fireable offense. I'd probably favor framerate and luminance over chroma. Maybe have a high resolution color still every n seconds interleaved with BW quad-hd stream.
Renaud 12y ago
Couldn't these issues be mitigated if the video recording was encrypted and simply archived for a set period of time unless there was a judge ordering its release? Wearing cameras has a lot of potential for good if there are string safeguards regulating access to the footage. I think encryption is a basic requirement here, with a software architecture that properly documents all access to the raw footage and enabling release only in some narrow circumstances.
- JshWright 12y ago
  How optimistic are you that it would actually be implemented well?

dragonwriter 12y ago

> This doesn't even begin to cover the HIPAA implications... HIPAA doesn't generally apply to LEOs -- who are not covered entities (either health care providers nor payers) in the first place, so there probably aren't any HIPAA implications.

JshWright 12y ago
Probably... What if one of the cops who shows up happens to also be a part-time firefighter/paramedic, and lends a hand with patient care? What if the agency they occasionally work with is the agency that is providing care? Lines start to get blurrier... (This is a real world scenario that is not uncommon for us) Obviously the mere existence of the recording is still a long way from a violation, but I do find it troublesome at times...
- learc83 12y ago
  >What if one of the cops who shows up happens to also be a part-time firefighter/paramedic, and lends a hand with patient care? Probably the same thing that happens if a cop with a dashcam shows up to a traffic accident. I don't know what it is that happens exactly, but it's a pretty common occurrence, so it seems likely that this scenario isn't that big of a problem.
  - JshWright 12y ago
    The amount of private health information that would be exposed in someone's bedroom, on a medical call (where a thorough interview is conducted, revealing all sorts of personal information) is _miles apart_ from what would be recorded by a dashcam at the scene of an accident.
    - learc83 12y ago
      >where a thorough interview is conducted, revealing all sorts of personal information Given the ubiquity of dashcams, I'm willing to bet that quite a few medical interviews that reveal a lot of personal information have been conducted in earshoot of a dashcam. What happens when a cop calls an ambulance to check someone out for possible injuries, and the ambulance parks next to the patrol cruiser? Do the paramedics ask the cop to turn his dashcam microphone off while hey ask questions? How would this medical call differ from one that happens in bedroom (other than the lack of personal effects)? Seems like this scenario probably isn't an order of magnitude less likely than a cop who's also a paramedic listening in on a medical call in someone's bedroom.

mabbo 12y ago

It's not like the police take the cameras, and immediately post them to youtube. If complaints are made, video can be reviewed by those who need to review it. If it needs to go to court, censoring can be added. I do see your point. I would counter with: if we are to claim we're free to record the actions of the police while they work, surely they have the right to record what goes on as well.

gizmo686 12y ago
> if we are to claim we're free to record the actions of the police while they work, surely they have the right to record what goes on as well. Not necessarily. The police are acting as government agents and as such have fewer rights to privacy.
JshWright 12y ago
Sure... my point is just that the issue is more complicated than it seems to be on the face of it... Law enforcement officers end up coming into contact with everyday people in very compromising positions, often through no fault of their own, and in their own homes. Like I said, I fall on the 'pro-camera' side of the debate, but there are a lot of often overlooked implications that I feel need to be part of the discussion.
- sitkack 12y ago
  I think you are in the weeds at this point.
  - JshWright 12y ago
    Perhaps I am. I was simply trying to relate a personal experience with these cameras, and the fact that they have made me feel uncomfortable at times (for the sake of the folks I'm caring for). It seemed germane to the conversation. Maybe someday it'll be routine enough that it doesn't enter my mind. For right now, it's frankly a bit of a distraction (in situations where a distraction can literally be fatal).

golemotron 12y ago

> Should the LEO disclose he's wearing a camera? "Hey, I notice you just fell in the shower and are naked, soaking wet, and in an awkward position. Just FYI... I'm wearing a camera." All good concerns, but we have to remember that the TV show Cops has been doing this for what? 20 years now? I assume they have to get releases from everyone to put videos on the show, but they sure aren't getting releases when they walk into a house. If police-cams are mandated the footage should be put into a case file and only released under court order.

StavrosK 12y ago
> If police-cams are mandated the footage should be put into a case file and only released under court order. Because if there's one thing we can trust the government with, it's our private data!

baddox 12y ago

I agree that there is the possibility of privacy issues from camera footage being mismanaged or leaked, but I think that is less important than the direct police abuse that would probably be significantly thwarted by police body cameras.

sitkack 12y ago

Obviously the cameras should be * always on * encrypted (public key, the Court should have the private key) * have a GPS lock * automatically sync when they are in car and or back at base * be on the cellular network (timestamps and crypto signature of the captured stream), could even transmit officer vitals and location in realtime, could also sync in realtime over 4g connections The officers should not be able to turn them off or review the video. Missing footage would be fireable offense. I'd probably favor framerate and luminance over chroma. Maybe have a high resolution color still every n seconds interleaved with BW quad-hd stream.

Renaud 12y ago

Couldn't these issues be mitigated if the video recording was encrypted and simply archived for a set period of time unless there was a judge ordering its release? Wearing cameras has a lot of potential for good if there are string safeguards regulating access to the footage. I think encryption is a basic requirement here, with a software architecture that properly documents all access to the raw footage and enabling release only in some narrow circumstances.

JshWright 12y ago
How optimistic are you that it would actually be implemented well?