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Piketty’s Capital: Wrong Theory/Destructive Program

5 points by duncan_bayne 12y ago

Zigurd 12y ago
This blog is a commentary on contemporary business, politics, economics, society, and culture, based on the values of Reason, Rational Self-Interest, and Laissez-Faire Capitalism. Its intellectual foundations are Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism... There are seriously that many Objectivists here?
- duncan_bayne 12y ago
  /me raises hand Of course, we all code in Objectivist C ( http://fdiv.net/2012/04/01/objectivist-c http://fdiv.net/2012/04/01/objectivist-c ) ;) But seriously ... I'm actually surprised that there aren't more Objectivists on HN. There's a strong anti-authoritarian streak here, with an emphasis on rationality, independence and capitalism. Take a look at the list of objectivist virtues ( http://wiki.objectivismonline.net/Virtues http://wiki.objectivismonline.net/Virtues ): Rationality, Honesty, Integrity, Productivity, Independence, Pride, and Justice That list describes a lot of people on HN.
  - Zigurd 12y ago
    Huh, I've got enough points, maybe I should do a poll of Objectivist, Libertarian, Anarcho-capitalist, anarchist, Republican, Democrat, Socialist, Communist, Green, etc. self-identification. Anyone I'm leaving out?
    - duncan_bayne 12y ago
      I like it :) That said I'm not convinced that all of the options there are actually in the same category; some are philosophies, others are political choices based on philosophy. E.g. I know of Objectivists who vote Republican, and Anarchists who vote Green. Perhaps two polls: one for philosophy, one for voting choice? Edited: I guess you could have one poll, & people could vote in two categories? I've never set up a poll myself so I'm not sure.
api 12y ago
> Over the course of several generations, the US government has taxed away trillions upon trillions of dollars that otherwise would have been saved and invested and thereby added to the capital of the American economy. I'm going to stop right there, because that's the problem. If capital saved by the wealthy were invested in value-creating, productive pursuits, there would be no problem. The problem is that investing in value creation is hard. You have to play angel or VC, more or less. You have to understand your domains, pick your investments, do due diligence, etc. There's also a limited number of good investments available at any given times. The best are either oversubscribed or very difficult to recognize and require contrarianism... and contrarianism is not a magic bullet either. Some contrarian investments are incredible, while others are contrarian because they're bad. It's so much easier to invest in rent-seeking and debt issuance. It takes far less time and far less domain expertise. It also generates -- at least in theory -- more predictable returns. (The 2008 crash occurred when multiple classes of rentier investments suddenly became unpredictable and did things that violated model assumptions... like millions of mortgages defaulting in unison.) It's easier to invest in schemes to ratchet up real estate and commodity prices to extract rents from the rest of the economy, or to simply lend money at interest. The former has created phenomena like real estate rising while wages are not. The latter has created a series of credit bubbles and a system of debt-based indentured servitude. At some point private savings seems to become a net social ill and lead us back to feudalism. Or at least that's what things look like today. Everything is going up except wages (across much of the economy) because money is flowing into rent extraction, not industrial expansion. Where is all this investment in new productivity? P. S. The most unrealistic thing about Ayn Rand is her depiction of businessmen. Characters reminiscent of her heroes are so extraordinarily rare I can name the ones I know of on one hand. The vast majority of "captains of industry" more closely resemble her villains: short-term pragmatic influence peddlers, boring bean counters who harbor a vague hatred for the genuinely creative, political wheeler-dealers, second handers, sociopathic exploiters, ...
- duncan_bayne 12y ago
  "I'm going to stop right there, because that's the problem." ... and in consequence you're going to repeat Piketty's assertions, which are pretty much demolished in the article you haven't bothered to read. Also, you're wrong in your description of Rand's portrayal of businessmen as unrealistic. The majority of businessmen in Atlas Shrugged (and, in fact, the Fountainhead) were as you describe: looters, second-handers, rent-seekers, statists and sociopaths. The exceptions were her heroes, who were as rare in her novels as they are in reality today.
mullingitover 12y ago
> Over the course of several generations, the US government has taxed away trillions upon trillions of dollars that otherwise would have been saved and invested and thereby added to the capital of the American economy. Yeah, maaan. I mean, aside from giving us clean water regulations, clean air regulations, safe air travel, excellent roads, safe streets, access to thoroughly tested medicine, plenty of food, safety from invading armies, construction of dams and other large-scale engineering projects, world-class education, GPS, the internet, and putting a man on the moon, what has the government even done with all that money?

5 points by duncan_bayne 12y ago

This blog is a commentary on contemporary business, politics, economics, society, and culture, based on the values of Reason, Rational Self-Interest, and Laissez-Faire Capitalism. Its intellectual foundations are Ayn Rand's philosophy of Objectivism... There are seriously that many Objectivists here?

duncan_bayne 12y ago
/me raises hand Of course, we all code in Objectivist C ( http://fdiv.net/2012/04/01/objectivist-c http://fdiv.net/2012/04/01/objectivist-c ) ;) But seriously ... I'm actually surprised that there aren't more Objectivists on HN. There's a strong anti-authoritarian streak here, with an emphasis on rationality, independence and capitalism. Take a look at the list of objectivist virtues ( http://wiki.objectivismonline.net/Virtues http://wiki.objectivismonline.net/Virtues ): Rationality, Honesty, Integrity, Productivity, Independence, Pride, and Justice That list describes a lot of people on HN.
- Zigurd 12y ago
  Huh, I've got enough points, maybe I should do a poll of Objectivist, Libertarian, Anarcho-capitalist, anarchist, Republican, Democrat, Socialist, Communist, Green, etc. self-identification. Anyone I'm leaving out?
  - duncan_bayne 12y ago
    I like it :) That said I'm not convinced that all of the options there are actually in the same category; some are philosophies, others are political choices based on philosophy. E.g. I know of Objectivists who vote Republican, and Anarchists who vote Green. Perhaps two polls: one for philosophy, one for voting choice? Edited: I guess you could have one poll, & people could vote in two categories? I've never set up a poll myself so I'm not sure.

api 12y ago

> Over the course of several generations, the US government has taxed away trillions upon trillions of dollars that otherwise would have been saved and invested and thereby added to the capital of the American economy. I'm going to stop right there, because that's the problem. If capital saved by the wealthy were invested in value-creating, productive pursuits, there would be no problem. The problem is that investing in value creation is hard. You have to play angel or VC, more or less. You have to understand your domains, pick your investments, do due diligence, etc. There's also a limited number of good investments available at any given times. The best are either oversubscribed or very difficult to recognize and require contrarianism... and contrarianism is not a magic bullet either. Some contrarian investments are incredible, while others are contrarian because they're bad. It's so much easier to invest in rent-seeking and debt issuance. It takes far less time and far less domain expertise. It also generates -- at least in theory -- more predictable returns. (The 2008 crash occurred when multiple classes of rentier investments suddenly became unpredictable and did things that violated model assumptions... like millions of mortgages defaulting in unison.) It's easier to invest in schemes to ratchet up real estate and commodity prices to extract rents from the rest of the economy, or to simply lend money at interest. The former has created phenomena like real estate rising while wages are not. The latter has created a series of credit bubbles and a system of debt-based indentured servitude. At some point private savings seems to become a net social ill and lead us back to feudalism. Or at least that's what things look like today. Everything is going up except wages (across much of the economy) because money is flowing into rent extraction, not industrial expansion. Where is all this investment in new productivity? P. S. The most unrealistic thing about Ayn Rand is her depiction of businessmen. Characters reminiscent of her heroes are so extraordinarily rare I can name the ones I know of on one hand. The vast majority of "captains of industry" more closely resemble her villains: short-term pragmatic influence peddlers, boring bean counters who harbor a vague hatred for the genuinely creative, political wheeler-dealers, second handers, sociopathic exploiters, ...

duncan_bayne 12y ago
"I'm going to stop right there, because that's the problem." ... and in consequence you're going to repeat Piketty's assertions, which are pretty much demolished in the article you haven't bothered to read. Also, you're wrong in your description of Rand's portrayal of businessmen as unrealistic. The majority of businessmen in Atlas Shrugged (and, in fact, the Fountainhead) were as you describe: looters, second-handers, rent-seekers, statists and sociopaths. The exceptions were her heroes, who were as rare in her novels as they are in reality today.

mullingitover 12y ago

> Over the course of several generations, the US government has taxed away trillions upon trillions of dollars that otherwise would have been saved and invested and thereby added to the capital of the American economy. Yeah, maaan. I mean, aside from giving us clean water regulations, clean air regulations, safe air travel, excellent roads, safe streets, access to thoroughly tested medicine, plenty of food, safety from invading armies, construction of dams and other large-scale engineering projects, world-class education, GPS, the internet, and putting a man on the moon, what has the government even done with all that money?