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Plenty of tech workers left everything behind and moved thousands of km across borders and oceans to work in SF in precarious visa situations and make a decent

by aianus 12y ago

Plenty of tech workers left everything behind and moved thousands of km across borders and oceans to work in SF in precarious visa situations and make a decent living. If they lose their jobs they don't get to go to OKC, they're deported back to India or China in 10 days. It's harder to empathize with US citizens who've managed to squander their enormous advantages and have to suffer the relatively mild indignity of moving to a different US city.

fred_durst 12y ago
"Squander"... many US citizens see the actions of Silicon Valley and the entire tech VC culture as grossly immoral and unethical. Maybe you have yet to realize that all your actions in the US will only make rich families richer and hurt and damage the lives of those beneath you, but many Americans decide to do work that helps individuals directly as opposed to help investors become even richer. It's fun to think poor Americans are lazy, but when you realize that helping people in America is one of the lowest paid(often volunteer) positions, how warped the reality of the US dollar is. To many "dignity" as you described it, is not working like a slave to enrich the evil that is destroying our country. And if you are moving here to contribute to that you are not much more than a paid mercenary. EDIT: Look, I get it that you are possibly coming from a fucked situation wherever you might come from. And I can't blame you for it. But realize that few people in the US actually will benefit from it, and it will actually make their lives worse. It's what you have to do, but it really isn't something that many Americans would think is good. We already learned about imperialism in High School and prefer not to repeat it.
- aianus 12y ago
  Money is obviously an imperfect proxy for how much someone contributes to society but it's the only fair way to ration housing or any other limited resource. "My parents lived in this city and I grew up here" does not and should not trump "I moved here to work and be productive".
  - McDoku 12y ago
    Are you seriously arguing that "to work and be productive" overrides the rights of native inhabitants of a region?
    - aianus 12y ago
      It's better for society as a whole to distribute limited resources based on some kind of merit rather than "I was here first".
      - McDoku 12y ago
        Loyalty is merit. Would you rather a civilization that simply discarded you when you have lost utility? This is poor long term planning that undermines the nation for short term intrest. Unless you have pledged your allegiance, your contributions and loyalty is short term. So obviously we are going to prioratize someone who has our back. If you have the education it is likely because you come from a privileged family. There is also strong corrupting ingrained into the system. Unless my last red envelope was given to me in error. There are men and women in your country of greater merit who are not given the opportunity. If we were truely acting on merit they would be hear, and not you. They would have been given the scholarship and the resources in childhood to succeed. I have met way too many entitled princelings lacking any of the virtues of a gentleman.
    - adventured 12y ago
      What rights are you talking about that "native inhabitants of a region" possess exactly?
      - McDoku 12y ago
        They deserve the loyalty of their representatives. Policy should be made in thier best intrest.
- ml_da 12y ago
  What're you talking about here? How is software development going to 'contribute to the evil that is destroying our country'? Snapchat and Instagram are stupid apps, sure, but they're far from destroying america. And a lot of new technology which is built: smartphones, medical devices, robotics, all those things are going to save lives and be a tremendous boost to the economy.
McDoku 12y ago
A VISA is a privilege not a right. That is apples and oranges.
vijayr 12y ago
Not saying you are wrong, but you have to consider this - people who left everything behind to come to the US to work in tech field (even with all the visa problems etc) are typically more educated, have marketable skills than the people pointed out by your parent comment. While their lives aren't easy - it is better compared to those working for minimum wage (or slightly above minimum wage). If the engineers are sent back to India/China, their chances of getting a job is higher (because of their marketable skills) than people with no valuable skills moving from one US city to another. Also "mild indignity of moving to a different US city" - how would you feel if you lived in a city for 40 years, and suddenly find yourself priced out of your home? This is a more complex problem.
- aianus 12y ago
  > If the engineers are sent back to India/China, their chances of getting a job is higher (because of their marketable skills) than people with no valuable skills moving from one US city to another. Maybe so but the engineers there make less than the baristas in the US. Hell, an engineer in Canada makes less than a bartender in SF. I grew up in Toronto and lived there for 17 years but the tech jobs are so bad I can't really afford to stay. Not without living with my parents or spending 65% of my net income on rent and transportation. I don't feel entitled to stay, nobody owes me anything. I can either move or figure out a way to earn more money.

by aianus 12y ago

fred_durst 12y ago

"Squander"... many US citizens see the actions of Silicon Valley and the entire tech VC culture as grossly immoral and unethical. Maybe you have yet to realize that all your actions in the US will only make rich families richer and hurt and damage the lives of those beneath you, but many Americans decide to do work that helps individuals directly as opposed to help investors become even richer. It's fun to think poor Americans are lazy, but when you realize that helping people in America is one of the lowest paid(often volunteer) positions, how warped the reality of the US dollar is. To many "dignity" as you described it, is not working like a slave to enrich the evil that is destroying our country. And if you are moving here to contribute to that you are not much more than a paid mercenary. EDIT: Look, I get it that you are possibly coming from a fucked situation wherever you might come from. And I can't blame you for it. But realize that few people in the US actually will benefit from it, and it will actually make their lives worse. It's what you have to do, but it really isn't something that many Americans would think is good. We already learned about imperialism in High School and prefer not to repeat it.

aianus 12y ago
Money is obviously an imperfect proxy for how much someone contributes to society but it's the only fair way to ration housing or any other limited resource. "My parents lived in this city and I grew up here" does not and should not trump "I moved here to work and be productive".
- McDoku 12y ago
  Are you seriously arguing that "to work and be productive" overrides the rights of native inhabitants of a region?
  - aianus 12y ago
    It's better for society as a whole to distribute limited resources based on some kind of merit rather than "I was here first".
    - McDoku 12y ago
      Loyalty is merit. Would you rather a civilization that simply discarded you when you have lost utility? This is poor long term planning that undermines the nation for short term intrest. Unless you have pledged your allegiance, your contributions and loyalty is short term. So obviously we are going to prioratize someone who has our back. If you have the education it is likely because you come from a privileged family. There is also strong corrupting ingrained into the system. Unless my last red envelope was given to me in error. There are men and women in your country of greater merit who are not given the opportunity. If we were truely acting on merit they would be hear, and not you. They would have been given the scholarship and the resources in childhood to succeed. I have met way too many entitled princelings lacking any of the virtues of a gentleman.
  - adventured 12y ago
    What rights are you talking about that "native inhabitants of a region" possess exactly?
    - McDoku 12y ago
      They deserve the loyalty of their representatives. Policy should be made in thier best intrest.
ml_da 12y ago
What're you talking about here? How is software development going to 'contribute to the evil that is destroying our country'? Snapchat and Instagram are stupid apps, sure, but they're far from destroying america. And a lot of new technology which is built: smartphones, medical devices, robotics, all those things are going to save lives and be a tremendous boost to the economy.

McDoku 12y ago

A VISA is a privilege not a right. That is apples and oranges.

vijayr 12y ago

Not saying you are wrong, but you have to consider this - people who left everything behind to come to the US to work in tech field (even with all the visa problems etc) are typically more educated, have marketable skills than the people pointed out by your parent comment. While their lives aren't easy - it is better compared to those working for minimum wage (or slightly above minimum wage). If the engineers are sent back to India/China, their chances of getting a job is higher (because of their marketable skills) than people with no valuable skills moving from one US city to another. Also "mild indignity of moving to a different US city" - how would you feel if you lived in a city for 40 years, and suddenly find yourself priced out of your home? This is a more complex problem.

aianus 12y ago
> If the engineers are sent back to India/China, their chances of getting a job is higher (because of their marketable skills) than people with no valuable skills moving from one US city to another. Maybe so but the engineers there make less than the baristas in the US. Hell, an engineer in Canada makes less than a bartender in SF. I grew up in Toronto and lived there for 17 years but the tech jobs are so bad I can't really afford to stay. Not without living with my parents or spending 65% of my net income on rent and transportation. I don't feel entitled to stay, nobody owes me anything. I can either move or figure out a way to earn more money.