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Tools is so huge! It is one of those sort of "intangible" assets of a large company, what is the quality (and projected future quality) of their tools... Poor

Tools is so huge! It is one of those sort of "intangible" assets of a large company, what is the quality (and projected future quality) of their tools... Poor tools decisions or tool apathy (for example, not enough funding to the tools teams) can shackle entire divisions of the company.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Google is famous for a tooling strategy that has paid off in spades. Reading about their RCS, build, and testing infrastructure is like reading an overly optimistic science fiction novel; it can't be that great right?
- thrownaway2424 12y ago
  I take it you've only read about these tools, and not actually had to face them.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    Yes, but I've heard good things from those that actually use them. Preforce mated to GFS, lightning quick check outs and builds that work lazily, you can make a change to the code base even if you don't own it, and code review requests will be sent out automatically as well as tests run to ensure you didn't break...Google.
    - blake8086 12y ago
      The tools are world-class. But as soon as you use them, it is also obvious how far away they are from perfection. So I think you'll always here about how great they are from the outside, and grumbling from all the people who use them on the inside. They are really great, and they really do make a difference though.
  - marssaxman 12y ago
    I've had to face them; they are really damn good. I've never seen anything better.
    - thrownaway2424 12y ago
      Much like Churchill's characterization of democracy, Google's build and test tools are the worst, except for all the other ones.
keithnoizu 12y ago
I think the old review system ( i think they've changed it since I left ) killed the internal tooling story. No one gets 1s or excelleds for maintaining an existing tool. They get a boost for pushing out a good enough tool and then they move on to something else rather than focusing on incremental improvements. Because those don't play well into your annual review.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

Google is famous for a tooling strategy that has paid off in spades. Reading about their RCS, build, and testing infrastructure is like reading an overly optimistic science fiction novel; it can't be that great right?

thrownaway2424 12y ago
I take it you've only read about these tools, and not actually had to face them.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  Yes, but I've heard good things from those that actually use them. Preforce mated to GFS, lightning quick check outs and builds that work lazily, you can make a change to the code base even if you don't own it, and code review requests will be sent out automatically as well as tests run to ensure you didn't break...Google.
  - blake8086 12y ago
    The tools are world-class. But as soon as you use them, it is also obvious how far away they are from perfection. So I think you'll always here about how great they are from the outside, and grumbling from all the people who use them on the inside. They are really great, and they really do make a difference though.
- marssaxman 12y ago
  I've had to face them; they are really damn good. I've never seen anything better.
  - thrownaway2424 12y ago
    Much like Churchill's characterization of democracy, Google's build and test tools are the worst, except for all the other ones.

keithnoizu 12y ago

I think the old review system ( i think they've changed it since I left ) killed the internal tooling story. No one gets 1s or excelleds for maintaining an existing tool. They get a boost for pushing out a good enough tool and then they move on to something else rather than focusing on incremental improvements. Because those don't play well into your annual review.