6 ms·

BMW Launches Its Answer to Tesla’s Supercharger Network

41 points by antr 12y ago

yread 12y ago
The standards war for car charging is going to be a big mess: there is the standard which i3 is using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 that in itself has (incompatible?) AC (2 levels) and DC (3 levels) variants then there is this with a completely different plug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO and another standard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDE-AR-E_2623-2-2#VDE-AR-E_2623-2-2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDE-AR-E_2623-2-2#VDE-AR-E_2623... China will use yet another one http://www.longtailpipe.com/2014/02/chinas-electric-car-fast-charging-gbt.html http://www.longtailpipe.com/2014/02/chinas-electric-car-fast... Oh and then there's Tesla's supercharger network
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  Let's hope someone will quickly start manufacturing adapters bridging different standards.
  - dm2 12y ago
    Tesla does it so it's definitely possible to manufacture the adapters fairly cheap. From what I've heard the Tesla plug doesn't require a licensing fee so that certainly helps keep the price down for adapters. http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-ada...
- yalooze 12y ago
  Even when everyone's compatible, will you be able to charge on another company's charger? Or will it be like the ATM issues of the past? "You can only withdraw money from your own bank's ATMs"...
  - beedogs 12y ago
    Maybe they'll add premiums for non-partnered manufacturers, or secretly charge them much more slowly, sort of like the Comcast and Verizon of the roads.
    - rlpb 12y ago
      Wouldn't charging more slowly risk creating a line behind the charger, causing issues for drivers of the manufacturer's cars waiting in line?
  - masklinn 12y ago
    I expect an EU smash as soon as EV charging networks become popular. That's the kind of stuff it's handled fairly well so far. If you're in the US, you're probably screwed (because liberty)
  - timthorn 12y ago
    In the UK, most of the charging networks allow roaming by customers of other networks. It isn't comprehensive but so far I've found it good enough.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- dm2 12y ago
  Aren't there ways to use adapters for increased compatibility? I don't see why companies wouldn't want to partner with Tesla, especially now that they have a significant number of charging stations and I don't think they charge a licensing fee for companies using their plug design.
  - sp332 12y ago
    Tesla already sells a SAE J1772 adapter, but it's $750 http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/j1772-connector http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/j1772-connector
    - dm2 12y ago
      That's for the Roadster, the Model S version is only $95: http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters/products/sae-j1772 http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-ada... The BMW vehicle would need the adapter to go the other way though, and apparently the cost can be reasonable. There's no reason why the j1772 to whatever the supercharger connection is should be greater than ~$100.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- kmfrk 12y ago
  It's only a matter of time before we all have to get our own stupid Belkin adapters for our electric cars. :)
  - gutnor 12y ago
    If you ever have had a LPG car, you are already used to that kind of things. I owned one in the past and crossed the border between 3 countries everyday (Europe ...) - so I had 2 different adapters in the car always.
- pwelch 12y ago
  I can't agree more. It seems like this is going to slow down the progress until they all give in and choose a standard. Or every car comes with 12 or more converters stored in the trunk...
- kkmickos 12y ago
  I have faith in EU to set some kind of standard for at least Europe.
sabret00the 12y ago
I guess they decided against doing a deal to license Tesla tech then: http://insideevs.com/behind-scenes-teslas-secret-meeting-bmw/ http://insideevs.com/behind-scenes-teslas-secret-meeting-bmw...
Shivetya 12y ago
I do appreciate the fact they do not intend to limit which cars can use the chargers, that is a great first step in adoption. Their choice of providing for on board range extenders is a probably a good bet as well. Myself, I could do fine with an i3 because when I need to take those few really long trips each year I won't have to adjust my route to do so.
basicallydan 12y ago
Does anybody have an account of how unleaded/diesel fuel cars came to have a standard nozzle for filling up? It might give us an insight into how this particular standards battle will go down.
- StavrosK 12y ago
  If I had to guess, it was done easily because car manufacturers didn't own gas stations.
- dubcanada 12y ago
  I mean it's a hole and a spout. I don't really see any other easy way to pour something into a container that has a small opening.
  - marcosdumay 12y ago
    There is quite a bit of variation possible in hole diameter, and spout length.
    - arethuza 12y ago
      Including the spout for diesel being larger than petrol to stop you putting diesel in a petrol car.
- cpwright 12y ago
  To be honest, the standard for a gasoline nozzle is pretty easy. The hole needs to be bigger than the hose, that's it. There are a lot more variables with an electric plug. The standard for the actual fuel composition must certainly be the harder part when considering a classic ICE.
- qbrass 12y ago
  In the early 70's cars were being built with catalytic converters, which necessitated the use of unleaded gasoline because leaded gas would coat the catalytic material in the converter and ruin it. Cars designed to use unleaded gas would have a fuel filler with a smaller hole in it, and unleaded pumps would have a nozzle that fit in the hole, while leaded and diesel nozzles wouldn't.
higherpurpose 12y ago
I think this is the wrong way to approach this. So every car manufacturer is going to have its own charging network? Do they even realize how expensive that's going to be? Not to mention something their customers will hate. They all need to get together and create a standardized network that is both solar powered and can charge the cars very fast.
- rlpb 12y ago
  Did you read the article? BMW is going to permit others to access its network.
  - vertex-four 12y ago
    Assuming that they license the tech from BMW to use it, and agree that BMW's system is the best system. It's not a consortium approach.
nextw33k 12y ago
Of course these charge points should be created by the same people that run car parks. Its an additional profit opportunity and a customer draw. If I owned a EV I would be parking in a car park that was 50% more per hour if I could also charge up. Or they just factor the cost of parking into the electricity cost.
- timthorn 12y ago
  Currently, the EV charging points in my area are all free to use, subject to a £10 annual registration fee. Having taken delivery of a PHEV last month, I'm very happy :) The biggest problem is that many of the charging spots in car parks are often taken by non-electric cars.
lelf 12y ago
> The 24 kilowatt BMW i DC Fast Charger, developed with Bosch Automotive, can charge the i3’s battery up to 80 percent in 30 minutes. It's more like ‘up to 60%’. i3’s battery is 18.8 kWh. And Superchangers are 120kW. So they are just joking about that “the answer to Tesla’s Supercharger Network” part I guess.
- chiph 12y ago
  They talked about how small and light their charger is. If I were an owner, I'd care less about that and more about getting more charge in less time.
  - nasmorn 12y ago
    It is probably meant for European cities where there is no endless supply of parking lots to install if hardware.
- gutnor 12y ago
  That's Wired editing. They wanted a BMW vs Tesla ( see "Range-Handicapped i3", "Epic Road Trip" ) while in reality, BMW just came up with a small charger to improve the current non-Tesla grid. The rest of the article is more factual. Except for Tesla, most electric car are meant for city use, small range. In Europe it is quite common to live in a flat with no charging facility at night, so there is needs for a proximity type network. ( For example, I spend 90% of my time in London with the car on the street, buying a Tesla is not possible first because it is a huge car, secondly because I would need to take a trip to the one station 20 min from home on a regular basis )
namlem 12y ago
Woo! Who doesn't love fragmented standards?!
- johnward 12y ago
  Imagine if you could only fill up your current vehicle at certain gas stations. If EVs don't come to a standard charger they will be severely hindering that market. There are a ton of obstacles why not put one more out there for arbitrary reasons.
- zo1 12y ago
  Obligatory xkcd: http://xkcd.com/927/ http://xkcd.com/927/
yutah 12y ago
Maybe Europe will pass a law like they did for cellphone charger plugs and that will help standardize it internationally...
- spacefight 12y ago
  Well they standardized but the final connector on Apple hardware is still different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#Reception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#Re...
  - sabret00the 12y ago
    I have struggled to (on my travels) find an Apple charger that features the micro USB adapter. This has often lead to a dead battery.
  - yutah 12y ago
    I believe that there is only one bad apple among cellphone manufacturers that didn't bring this change to the USA. But I guess that is to be expected with Apple and they might have made millions inconveniencing their customers.
reconbot 12y ago
I'm fine with this. Happy even. There is more than one way to build our charging infrastructure and we don't yet know how it's going to work best. Tesla's require a lot of power, BMW's doesn't. Our electric grid can support different amounts of power in different locations. Our driving behaviors haven't yet dictated what's going to work best. Etc etc. I think the cost of adapting charges to work with multiple models of car is low and the benefits of experimentation at this early stage is high.
phkahler 12y ago
"... the range-handicapped i3 ..." I approve of this phrase. We usually see the term "range anxiety" which would indicate some kind of emotional problem with the customer rather than a problem with the product.

41 points by antr 12y ago

yread 12y ago

The standards war for car charging is going to be a big mess: there is the standard which i3 is using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 that in itself has (incompatible?) AC (2 levels) and DC (3 levels) variants then there is this with a completely different plug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO and another standard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDE-AR-E_2623-2-2#VDE-AR-E_2623-2-2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDE-AR-E_2623-2-2#VDE-AR-E_2623... China will use yet another one http://www.longtailpipe.com/2014/02/chinas-electric-car-fast-charging-gbt.html http://www.longtailpipe.com/2014/02/chinas-electric-car-fast... Oh and then there's Tesla's supercharger network

TeMPOraL 12y ago
Let's hope someone will quickly start manufacturing adapters bridging different standards.
- dm2 12y ago
  Tesla does it so it's definitely possible to manufacture the adapters fairly cheap. From what I've heard the Tesla plug doesn't require a licensing fee so that certainly helps keep the price down for adapters. http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-ada...
yalooze 12y ago
Even when everyone's compatible, will you be able to charge on another company's charger? Or will it be like the ATM issues of the past? "You can only withdraw money from your own bank's ATMs"...
- beedogs 12y ago
  Maybe they'll add premiums for non-partnered manufacturers, or secretly charge them much more slowly, sort of like the Comcast and Verizon of the roads.
  - rlpb 12y ago
    Wouldn't charging more slowly risk creating a line behind the charger, causing issues for drivers of the manufacturer's cars waiting in line?
- masklinn 12y ago
  I expect an EU smash as soon as EV charging networks become popular. That's the kind of stuff it's handled fairly well so far. If you're in the US, you're probably screwed (because liberty)
- timthorn 12y ago
  In the UK, most of the charging networks allow roaming by customers of other networks. It isn't comprehensive but so far I've found it good enough.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
dm2 12y ago
Aren't there ways to use adapters for increased compatibility? I don't see why companies wouldn't want to partner with Tesla, especially now that they have a significant number of charging stations and I don't think they charge a licensing fee for companies using their plug design.
- sp332 12y ago
  Tesla already sells a SAE J1772 adapter, but it's $750 http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/j1772-connector http://shop.teslamotors.com/products/j1772-connector
  - dm2 12y ago
    That's for the Roadster, the Model S version is only $95: http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters/products/sae-j1772 http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-ada... The BMW vehicle would need the adapter to go the other way though, and apparently the cost can be reasonable. There's no reason why the j1772 to whatever the supercharger connection is should be greater than ~$100.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
kmfrk 12y ago
It's only a matter of time before we all have to get our own stupid Belkin adapters for our electric cars. :)
- gutnor 12y ago
  If you ever have had a LPG car, you are already used to that kind of things. I owned one in the past and crossed the border between 3 countries everyday (Europe ...) - so I had 2 different adapters in the car always.
pwelch 12y ago
I can't agree more. It seems like this is going to slow down the progress until they all give in and choose a standard. Or every car comes with 12 or more converters stored in the trunk...
kkmickos 12y ago
I have faith in EU to set some kind of standard for at least Europe.

sabret00the 12y ago

I guess they decided against doing a deal to license Tesla tech then: http://insideevs.com/behind-scenes-teslas-secret-meeting-bmw/ http://insideevs.com/behind-scenes-teslas-secret-meeting-bmw...

Shivetya 12y ago

I do appreciate the fact they do not intend to limit which cars can use the chargers, that is a great first step in adoption. Their choice of providing for on board range extenders is a probably a good bet as well. Myself, I could do fine with an i3 because when I need to take those few really long trips each year I won't have to adjust my route to do so.

basicallydan 12y ago

Does anybody have an account of how unleaded/diesel fuel cars came to have a standard nozzle for filling up? It might give us an insight into how this particular standards battle will go down.

StavrosK 12y ago
If I had to guess, it was done easily because car manufacturers didn't own gas stations.
dubcanada 12y ago
I mean it's a hole and a spout. I don't really see any other easy way to pour something into a container that has a small opening.
- marcosdumay 12y ago
  There is quite a bit of variation possible in hole diameter, and spout length.
  - arethuza 12y ago
    Including the spout for diesel being larger than petrol to stop you putting diesel in a petrol car.
cpwright 12y ago
To be honest, the standard for a gasoline nozzle is pretty easy. The hole needs to be bigger than the hose, that's it. There are a lot more variables with an electric plug. The standard for the actual fuel composition must certainly be the harder part when considering a classic ICE.
qbrass 12y ago
In the early 70's cars were being built with catalytic converters, which necessitated the use of unleaded gasoline because leaded gas would coat the catalytic material in the converter and ruin it. Cars designed to use unleaded gas would have a fuel filler with a smaller hole in it, and unleaded pumps would have a nozzle that fit in the hole, while leaded and diesel nozzles wouldn't.

higherpurpose 12y ago

I think this is the wrong way to approach this. So every car manufacturer is going to have its own charging network? Do they even realize how expensive that's going to be? Not to mention something their customers will hate. They all need to get together and create a standardized network that is both solar powered and can charge the cars very fast.

rlpb 12y ago
Did you read the article? BMW is going to permit others to access its network.
- vertex-four 12y ago
  Assuming that they license the tech from BMW to use it, and agree that BMW's system is the best system. It's not a consortium approach.

nextw33k 12y ago

Of course these charge points should be created by the same people that run car parks. Its an additional profit opportunity and a customer draw. If I owned a EV I would be parking in a car park that was 50% more per hour if I could also charge up. Or they just factor the cost of parking into the electricity cost.

timthorn 12y ago
Currently, the EV charging points in my area are all free to use, subject to a £10 annual registration fee. Having taken delivery of a PHEV last month, I'm very happy :) The biggest problem is that many of the charging spots in car parks are often taken by non-electric cars.

lelf 12y ago

> The 24 kilowatt BMW i DC Fast Charger, developed with Bosch Automotive, can charge the i3’s battery up to 80 percent in 30 minutes. It's more like ‘up to 60%’. i3’s battery is 18.8 kWh. And Superchangers are 120kW. So they are just joking about that “the answer to Tesla’s Supercharger Network” part I guess.

chiph 12y ago
They talked about how small and light their charger is. If I were an owner, I'd care less about that and more about getting more charge in less time.
- nasmorn 12y ago
  It is probably meant for European cities where there is no endless supply of parking lots to install if hardware.
gutnor 12y ago
That's Wired editing. They wanted a BMW vs Tesla ( see "Range-Handicapped i3", "Epic Road Trip" ) while in reality, BMW just came up with a small charger to improve the current non-Tesla grid. The rest of the article is more factual. Except for Tesla, most electric car are meant for city use, small range. In Europe it is quite common to live in a flat with no charging facility at night, so there is needs for a proximity type network. ( For example, I spend 90% of my time in London with the car on the street, buying a Tesla is not possible first because it is a huge car, secondly because I would need to take a trip to the one station 20 min from home on a regular basis )

namlem 12y ago

Woo! Who doesn't love fragmented standards?!

johnward 12y ago
Imagine if you could only fill up your current vehicle at certain gas stations. If EVs don't come to a standard charger they will be severely hindering that market. There are a ton of obstacles why not put one more out there for arbitrary reasons.
zo1 12y ago
Obligatory xkcd: http://xkcd.com/927/ http://xkcd.com/927/

yutah 12y ago

Maybe Europe will pass a law like they did for cellphone charger plugs and that will help standardize it internationally...

spacefight 12y ago
Well they standardized but the final connector on Apple hardware is still different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#Reception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply#Re...
- sabret00the 12y ago
  I have struggled to (on my travels) find an Apple charger that features the micro USB adapter. This has often lead to a dead battery.
- yutah 12y ago
  I believe that there is only one bad apple among cellphone manufacturers that didn't bring this change to the USA. But I guess that is to be expected with Apple and they might have made millions inconveniencing their customers.

reconbot 12y ago

I'm fine with this. Happy even. There is more than one way to build our charging infrastructure and we don't yet know how it's going to work best. Tesla's require a lot of power, BMW's doesn't. Our electric grid can support different amounts of power in different locations. Our driving behaviors haven't yet dictated what's going to work best. Etc etc. I think the cost of adapting charges to work with multiple models of car is low and the benefits of experimentation at this early stage is high.

phkahler 12y ago

"... the range-handicapped i3 ..." I approve of this phrase. We usually see the term "range anxiety" which would indicate some kind of emotional problem with the customer rather than a problem with the product.