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State Incentives Bringing SpaceX Commercial Launch Facility to Texas
- spamizbad 12y agoSurprised Musk did this after Texas kind of fucked him over by banning direct sales of Tesla motors. Good to know he doesn't hold grudges at least.
- SlipperySlope 12y agoTexas will probably lose the big battery plant to another state closer to California.
- ktsmith 12y agoit's looking more and more like Reno is the location of the battery plant. The governor and Musk have both made statements recently about it and Tesla had something like 300 people working on something here. Work is currently stopped though so maybe the site isn't suitable or the state has done something stupid again.
- bhhaskin 12y agoI don't believe work has stopped, and it is infact the battery plant. From what I have heard there are still a few states in the running.
- ktsmith 12y agoIn the last five days while I happened to catch the news on tv (I rarely watch it) they were reporting the workers had been laid off and work had been stopped. toomuchtodo above states that they are behind and trying to get caught back up so perhaps it was just temporary.
- pkaye 12y agoI've been seeing 3 large manufacturing buildings being constructed on highway 580 a mile away from the Tesla plant. I wonder if Musk is considering those as a possibility.
- toomuchtodo 12y agoI have seen more than a handful of stories that the Reno project was shutdown and a majority of construction workers laid off there due to how behind the project is (they were working 24/7 to get back on schedule).
- ktsmith 12y agoI wasn't aware that work had resumed. It was just a few days ago that kolo reported the layoffs and shut down and I don't catch that very often. It'll be interesting to see if it's the plant or something else.
- unethical_ban 12y agoIf he takes after Lockheed and the rest of the industry, he'll wrap his tentacles around at least a few states in order for them to shout when he says.
- kar2014 12y agoTexas is right-to-work state. Musk is a smart guy.
- scarmig 12y ago...the likelihood that right-to-work played even the smallest role in Musk's decision making here is small enough that it appears in the occasional real analysis text.
- MaysonL 12y agogood old ϵ...
- dba7dba 12y agoYou should pay a visit to SpaceX company. Union/non-union is a non-issue. Edit: Come to think of it, Elon would be very very happy if rocket manufacturers really had to deal with union the way car/plane makers do. That would mean rocketing across space is really like getting on a jet liner. But we all know that's many years away. So yeah, union/non-union is a non-issue for SpaceX.
- dalke 12y agoCould you elaborate on what "the way" means? After all, there are such unions now, like the International Association of Machinist and Aerospace Workers. IAM represents employees at, among others, KSC. Eg, they voted to strike at KSC back in 2007. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/02/AR2007060201434.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06... Ariane also has to deal with unions. You can see direct evidence at http://www.space.com/13037-ariane-5-launch-postponed-labor-strike.html http://www.space.com/13037-ariane-5-launch-postponed-labor-s... . (I mention these because strikes are easily reported in the news. Behind the scenes of course many of the engineers who built Ariane and the Shuttle are union labor, but that fact doesn't have the conflict that brings in readers.) Since I don't see how union labor implies what you think it does, could you clarify?
- FiatLuxDave 12y ago
- shliachtx 12y agoTexas actually had the ban on direct sales for quite a while now. It had nothing to do with Tesla. As a matter of fact, Perry has said that he would like to have it repealed. http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/03/26/Gov-Perry-Time-to-Revisit-Current-Texas-Laws-Restricting-Tesla-Motors http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/03/26/Gov-Perr...
- skaevola 12y agoTexas didn't ban direct sales of Tesla motors. Dealership directly owned by automakers are prohibited by an antiquated law. There was a law in the last legislative session which would have allowed Tesla to set up dealerships, but it never came up for debate. Texas' legislature only meets for 140 days each odd numbered year, but it's likely that in the next legislative session the bill will be passed. And, you can still buy Tesla's in Texas (trust me, you see plenty in Austin and Houston). Tesla just can't open dealerships. They still have showrooms (I've been to one in Austin and one in Houston), they just can't sell the car there.
- seanflyon 12y agoTexas didn't ban direct sales of Tesla motors, they just have a law banning direct sales of cars, such as those sold by Tesla motors.
- sosuke 12y agoYay! I sure hope this brings back a space themed license plate in the years to come.
- njharman 12y agoRecharging a SpaceX licence plated Tesla with Solar City PV installation. Only thing missing is a Blow-up Musk doll for the passenger side?
- taspeotis 12y ago> offering $2.3 million ... also offering $13 million $15.3 million seems like a paltry incentive compared to what I perceive the cost of a launch facility to be. Can someone in the know clarify how generous these grants are, especially relative to the cost of a launch facility?
- tedsanders 12y agoThe article says "this facility will create 300 jobs and pump $85 million in capital investment into the local economy." I suspect that means the launch site will cost $85 million to build.
- taspeotis 12y agoYes I read that, but I imagine that means that the total cost is at least $85 million. R&D and components done/made elsewhere aren't going to be figured in to that $85 million.
- cbsmith 12y agoDon't fool yourself, it will cost a LOT more than $85 million to build. $85 million is just how much gets spent directly and indirectly in Texas.
- SilasX 12y agoYou're right. But it will still be seized as an example of "lol SpaceX depends on enormous government subsidies to simply exist".
- psherman 12y agoI seem to recall reading that it is advantageous to launch a rocket closer to the equator, and Cameron County is at the southern tip of Texas. Wouldn't it seem more likely that location played a bigger role in SpaceX choosing Texas than the incentives?
- tedsanders 12y agoFlorida and Puerto Rico, alternatives considered by SpaceX, have locations even closer to the equator than Texas. And non-US locations have options far closer to the equator. Being southern is good, but other factors are important too.
- vonmoltke 12y agoFlorida is closer, but the possible launch sites are not. Still, both those sites and the Texas site are far enough south that, as you say, going further south doesn't buy much.
- loteck 12y agoNot being a rocket scientist, I am unfamiliar with some details. Aren't there only a very small number of launch sites even viable for consideration in the US for this kind of activity? Something about being close to the equator, and not landing your rocket on a major city. So, South Texas and... ummm...
- tedsanders 12y agoYes. To save fuel, many rockets are launched west to east (they get a headstart from the Earth's rotation). Launching close to the equator helps the most, because rockets get the biggest headstart. To minimize risk to people, launch sites are in locations that have low-population corridors for long distances to their east. Texas and Florida are both southern, with ocean to their east, so they make ideal launch sites for the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_launch_sites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_launch_sites For polar orbits, there is a spaceport in Southern California that launches north to south (so that its flights also go over ocean). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_Air_Force_Base https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_Air_Force_Base Interestingly, you might think that launching from high elevation helps (starting at Mr Everest would give you a headstart), but the benefit is small, a fraction of a percent.
- InclinedPlane 12y agoThe velocity boost for launching from nearer the equator is only part of the advantage. Another major factor is that many of the most expensive commercial payloads (such as major geosynchronous comsats) need to end up in equatorial orbits. The latitude of the launch site is also the minimum inclination of the initial orbit the launch vehicle can provide. At the equator you can launch into any orbital inclination. At the North Pole you can only launch into polar orbits. At 45 deg. latitude you can only launch into orbital inclinations of 45 to 90 deg. The higher the initial orbital inclination the more work you'll have to do (the more delta V you'll have to apply) in a plane change burn in order to get into an equatorial orbit.
- simonh 12y ago
- lutorm 12y agoSpeaking of SpaceX, T-15min to Asiasat-8 launch now: http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
- 69_years_and 12y agoWow - thanks person, just about missed it.
- lutorm 12y agoT-2min now.
- baddox 12y agoUnbelievable timing. I saw this comment and loaded the video at T-0:36. Thanks.
- adityasankar 12y agoLooks like the launch was aborted at T-0:12.
- dlgeek 12y agoThey actually called it at T-0:46, just didn't update the counter.
- mrtimo 12y agoI lived in Cameron County 11 years ago. One of the poorest counties in the USA. The joke down there is, "I love living here because it is so close to the United States!" Most people in the USA don't realize how far south texas goes. This place is 6 hours south of Houston and 4 hours south of San Antonio. Nice to see this investment made! Excited to go back and visit.
- enraged_camel 12y agoI like taking virtual tours of remote locales using Google Street View. Here is a lovely neighborhood in Edinburg, TX, at the southern tip of the state: http://bit.ly/1y09dGC http://bit.ly/1y09dGC
- cbsmith 12y ago$15.3 million for 300 jobs. That's $51,100 per job. Not counting what no doubt are significant tax incentives as well. Free markets are awesome eh? ;-)
- dagw 12y agoI recently read about a study of these sorts of programs in the US and it concluded that the average price to get jobs to your State is $100,000 pr job.
- cbsmith 12y agoGovernments are so hard on employers... ;-)
- Dwolb 12y agoDid the study conclude these deals are a cost to the states that provide them? I guess what I mean is are these tax incentives a net negative over 20 years?
- cbsmith 12y agoYes, over 20 years they probably are a net positive for the states (though perhaps not always in direct revenue for the employers). However, that's looking at the deal in isolation, rather than the the impact this has on the market as a whole. It becomes a huge competitive advantage for larger, national & international companies, not to mention a huge distortion on the market and in the end substantially cuts down state revenues (the company was going to set up shop somewhere even if they weren't offered a cent).
- Dwolb 12y agoI guess I'm not so sure it's a negative for the market as a whole. It allows for some sort of company-buying-market where a non-attractive-location-state can really pull in valuable employers which they otherwise they would not have.
- marktangotango 12y agoI've always thought the goal was to launch from south Texas and to land the 1st stage in Florida. I don't know if that's too far, or not far enough. Maybe second stage? Although the second stage is a lot higher and faster at the end of it's burn.
- simonh 12y agoThe actual goal stated by SpaceX has always been to land the first stage at the facility it launched from. Bear in mind the first stage doesn't actually travel all that far down range comparatively speaking. It's primary job is to get the second stage up out of as much atmosphere as possible.