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I don't know much about the actual conditions in North India. But this article contains some markers that are at best suggestive of exaggeration, at worst maybe

I don't know much about the actual conditions in North India. But this article contains some markers that are at best suggestive of exaggeration, at worst maybe falsification. Eg, high levels of descriptive details that don't seem to be relevant and also don't mesh together: 1. Sunita’s family in the north Indian village of Mukimpur 2. When nature calls, the 26-year-old single mother and her four children head toward the jungle next to their farm of red and pink roses, to a field of tall grass, flecked with petals, where the 7,000 people of her village go to defecate and exchange gossip. 7000 people is a lot of people. Especially for a village. A quick check shows Mukimpur in the 2011 census only has a population of either 42 or 151. http://ourhero.in/population/villages/mukimpur-111460 http://ourhero.in/population/villages/mukimpur-111460 http://www.populationofindia.co.in/uttar-pradesh/muzaffarnagar/jansath/.mukimpur http://www.populationofindia.co.in/uttar-pradesh/muzaffarnag... Taking a look in Maps: https://maps.google.com.my/maps?q=Mukimpur,+Uttar+Pradesh,+India&hl=en&ll=28.361038,77.918419&spn=0.004522,0.008256&sll=3.232214,101.380968&sspn=2.626814,4.22699&oq=mukimpur&hnear=Mukimpur,+Bulandshahar,+Uttar+Pradesh,+India&t=h&z=18&lci=com.panoramio.all https://maps.google.com.my/maps?q=Mukimpur,+Uttar+Pradesh,+I... Seems like there's maybe 100 structures there max, even if all were houses, how do you get 7000 people? There definitely maybe a toilet problem, but I doubt this article is shedding light on the cause.

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- kaptain 12y ago
  Just western media? I myself am quite ignorant of media from other places in the world. In your experience is there a type of media that is more truthful in the way it describes situations? From my perspective, the emphasis isn't on the details of the description. Rather, the core of the article is really an account of the problem of sanitation. India has so many people that I just glossed over the number of people in the village. Thus this possible discrepancy didn't bother me.
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bignaj 12y ago
This article points to multiple causes: 1) cultural/social issues about where the proper place to defecate is 2) lack of education about germ theory and various fecal pathogens etc. 3) problems with bureaucracy converting money into action 4) lack of emphasis on the issue versus other issues 5) difficulty impacting the huge # of people living in India (problems of scale). These all seem pretty valid to me. I'm sure there are other causes as well and I'd like to learn more... what would you add?
- ilaksh 12y ago
  Those aren't the real problems. The article is distracting from the real problem and now you are contributing to that. The problem is that there is no plumbing and sewage in many areas and no resources to build it. There is no running water. The budget that the local government has is say 100 units. Installing a sewage system costs 1000 units. Installing running water for the whole village costs 3000 units. Its just not going to happen. The problem is that resources are not being allocated fairly. One of the main things that sustains that lack of equality is racism. Racism is a huge problem, even here in this thread. It is often disguised as a disparagement for "lack of education" or "cultural issues" or "population". These are not toilets like we think of toilets. These are porcelain Port-a-Potties. A very small septic tank directly underneath the toilet which has no water to clean it and must have the feces scraped out by hand. Would you really consider that to be sanitary? To have a Port-A-Potty installed in your studio apartment? There is no running water in the house or neighborhood. There is no truck to come pick up the Port-A-Potty. Actually its buried in the ground. Someone is going to have to lean in and scrape the feces out. Or, since there is 4 acre open field about 1/8 of a mile away which is often downwind, people who can walk should go take their shit over there, rather than leaving it in the house, where we will have to smell it all the time.
  - bignaj 12y ago
    >The problem is that resources are not being allocated fairly. One of the main things that sustains that lack of equality is racism. I see how lack of plumbing/sewage/running water is a major issue (thank you for adding that) but I was put off by you pulling the race card without substantiating it at all. Unless you can provide some evidence, racism does not seem to be the issue here -- lack of plumbing is the issue.
parennoob 12y ago
Your argument is correct, but you seem to place quite a lot of trust in Census numbers. As someone who has seen some of the actual Census surveys out in the country, that is rather amusing. Making population numbers up, or roughly estimating them is quite common. Now your structures argument makes sense, so I'm guessing this is more like 600-700 people (most Indian families live in large joint households, so 6 people a house is not uncommon).

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kaptain 12y ago
Just western media? I myself am quite ignorant of media from other places in the world. In your experience is there a type of media that is more truthful in the way it describes situations? From my perspective, the emphasis isn't on the details of the description. Rather, the core of the article is really an account of the problem of sanitation. India has so many people that I just glossed over the number of people in the village. Thus this possible discrepancy didn't bother me.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

bignaj 12y ago

This article points to multiple causes: 1) cultural/social issues about where the proper place to defecate is 2) lack of education about germ theory and various fecal pathogens etc. 3) problems with bureaucracy converting money into action 4) lack of emphasis on the issue versus other issues 5) difficulty impacting the huge # of people living in India (problems of scale). These all seem pretty valid to me. I'm sure there are other causes as well and I'd like to learn more... what would you add?

ilaksh 12y ago
Those aren't the real problems. The article is distracting from the real problem and now you are contributing to that. The problem is that there is no plumbing and sewage in many areas and no resources to build it. There is no running water. The budget that the local government has is say 100 units. Installing a sewage system costs 1000 units. Installing running water for the whole village costs 3000 units. Its just not going to happen. The problem is that resources are not being allocated fairly. One of the main things that sustains that lack of equality is racism. Racism is a huge problem, even here in this thread. It is often disguised as a disparagement for "lack of education" or "cultural issues" or "population". These are not toilets like we think of toilets. These are porcelain Port-a-Potties. A very small septic tank directly underneath the toilet which has no water to clean it and must have the feces scraped out by hand. Would you really consider that to be sanitary? To have a Port-A-Potty installed in your studio apartment? There is no running water in the house or neighborhood. There is no truck to come pick up the Port-A-Potty. Actually its buried in the ground. Someone is going to have to lean in and scrape the feces out. Or, since there is 4 acre open field about 1/8 of a mile away which is often downwind, people who can walk should go take their shit over there, rather than leaving it in the house, where we will have to smell it all the time.
- bignaj 12y ago
  >The problem is that resources are not being allocated fairly. One of the main things that sustains that lack of equality is racism. I see how lack of plumbing/sewage/running water is a major issue (thank you for adding that) but I was put off by you pulling the race card without substantiating it at all. Unless you can provide some evidence, racism does not seem to be the issue here -- lack of plumbing is the issue.

parennoob 12y ago

Your argument is correct, but you seem to place quite a lot of trust in Census numbers. As someone who has seen some of the actual Census surveys out in the country, that is rather amusing. Making population numbers up, or roughly estimating them is quite common. Now your structures argument makes sense, so I'm guessing this is more like 600-700 people (most Indian families live in large joint households, so 6 people a house is not uncommon).