4 ms·

Everett, The cat was out of the bag before you even tried. The only difference is others showed restraint and didn't break Stellar's mechanism intentionally.

Everett, The cat was out of the bag before you even tried. The only difference is others showed restraint and didn't break Stellar's mechanism intentionally. When I pointed out you could buy access to FB accounts, you weren't actually supposed to go out and do it, y'know? Just because we can break dumb mechanisms like these just means we have to show restraint. :/ > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8115497 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8115497 > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8115430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8115430

gdb 12y ago
Note that Everett was paying Mechanical Turks to auth their legitimate/existing Facebook accounts — not to go and fill out a bunch of captchas to farm new ones.
- opendais 12y ago
  Yes. That is farming Facebook accounts. :/ If I had meant "creating Facebook accounts", I'd have stated that. This is a technique that has been used before on various blackhat forums. Generally farming is getting people in countries with cheap labor to go out and perform the action for you. Mechanical Turk is one way to do that. e.g. Term in a different way: http://www.blackhat-seo.com/2009/captcha-farms/ http://www.blackhat-seo.com/2009/captcha-farms/ Captcha Farms do the same thing but with a private pool of cheap labor. Gdb, I was trying to be circumspect and not spelling it out so some script kiddie didn't go and immediately use the technique.
kibibu 12y ago
I know there are clever people working on this, but I can't see how any system based on handing out free money can really work. "Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt leaves as legal tender, we have, of course all become immensely rich."
- opendais 12y ago
  Honestly, I'm mainly just angry someone went out and basically ignored the fact multiple people told Stellar this would happen. Then went and did it.
- Furzel 12y ago
  Perfect H2G2 quote for the situation
SkyMarshal 12y ago
> Just because we can break dumb mechanisms like these just means we have to show restraint. :/ Dumb mechanisms inherent in a cryptocurrency should be broken early and often. This is just one inherent in Ripple/Stellar. Everett is a hacker hero.
- opendais 12y ago
  Why is it always necessary to demonstrate the obvious in a selfish way for gain? And how is that 'heroic'?
  - jdmichal 12y ago
    If your assertion is correct that Everett truly "broke" Stellar, than they will be worthless and he will have gained nothing. Your logic is contradictory.
    - opendais 12y ago
      You make 0 sense. I'm not sure if you just have trouble following what I wrote or what the issue is. > If your assertion is correct that Everett truly "broke" Stellar 1) That is not what I said. Much like the person who doesn't understand what "farming" means in context, I'm just going to assume poor comprehension on your part. 2) Even if that is what I said, he gained internet points and attention. That is still technically speaking "gain", at which point...you are still wrong. So, I think the issue here is: 1) You can't understand what I wrote either due to me or your poor reading comprehension. 2) You don't realize what you said is inherently false, regardless. --- At this point, I'm mainly just amused by how everyone leaps up to defend a guy who basically stole Stellars and then waited until he was called out to say anything. I wonder how well that would work at a bank. Care to try it for me?
      - jdmichal 12y ago
        He didn't steal them. He bought them from others. Meaning that he valued them more than the others. Welcome to economics. Also, you very clearly used the words "break the system".
adventured 12y ago
Systems of great value based on requiring voluntary restraint will always fail. If there's a particularly dumb mechanism that can easily break a system, then the entire system should fail, the sooner the better.
- opendais 12y ago
  Credit cards work out just fine.
wyager 12y ago
>Just because we can break dumb mechanisms like these just means we have to show restraint. Why the flying fuck would I show restraint towards a system that claims to be designed for the safe storage and transport of money? You bet your ass I, along with ten thousand others, tried to find ways to game/break Bitcoin. And guess what? We can't, because it's well designed. If Ripple/Stellar are gameable, they deserve to be gamed.
- opendais 12y ago
  > You bet your ass I, along with ten thousand others, tried to find ways to game/break Bitcoin. And guess what? We can't, because it's well designed. 51% attacks? http://www.coindesk.com/ghash-io-never-launch-51-attack/ http://www.coindesk.com/ghash-io-never-launch-51-attack/ ? Etc. Please don't tell me you can't game/break Bitcoin. With enough capital, you can. Just no one has bothered. Please don't make obviously false statements in defense of your position. > Why the flying fuck would I show restraint towards a system that claims to be designed for the safe storage and transport of money? I could steal people's credit card information and use it without triggering the fraud alert until after I get the goods. I could flee the country to a place that wouldn't extradite me for such behavior before anyone was the wiser. I don't because I have no desire to abuse breakable systems just because I can. I guess I just have more restraint than most people.
  - wyager 12y ago
    >51% attacks? People have tried and failed to pull them off. Preventing 51% attacks doesn't rely on goodwill. It just relies on people being either semi-rational or not sufficiently rich and motivated (one must be very rich and very motivated). >Please don't tell me you can't game/break Bitcoin. With enough capital, you can. I am telling you right now: I cannot game or break Bitcoin. With enough capital, anyone can do just about anything. The important thing is that no one who wants to has enough capital. >I don't because I have no desire to abuse breakable systems just because I can. You're conflating stealing money with breaking shitty systems. You can (and should) break shitty systems without stealing money from people.

gdb 12y ago

Note that Everett was paying Mechanical Turks to auth their legitimate/existing Facebook accounts — not to go and fill out a bunch of captchas to farm new ones.

opendais 12y ago
Yes. That is farming Facebook accounts. :/ If I had meant "creating Facebook accounts", I'd have stated that. This is a technique that has been used before on various blackhat forums. Generally farming is getting people in countries with cheap labor to go out and perform the action for you. Mechanical Turk is one way to do that. e.g. Term in a different way: http://www.blackhat-seo.com/2009/captcha-farms/ http://www.blackhat-seo.com/2009/captcha-farms/ Captcha Farms do the same thing but with a private pool of cheap labor. Gdb, I was trying to be circumspect and not spelling it out so some script kiddie didn't go and immediately use the technique.

kibibu 12y ago

I know there are clever people working on this, but I can't see how any system based on handing out free money can really work. "Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt leaves as legal tender, we have, of course all become immensely rich."

opendais 12y ago
Honestly, I'm mainly just angry someone went out and basically ignored the fact multiple people told Stellar this would happen. Then went and did it.
Furzel 12y ago
Perfect H2G2 quote for the situation

SkyMarshal 12y ago

> Just because we can break dumb mechanisms like these just means we have to show restraint. :/ Dumb mechanisms inherent in a cryptocurrency should be broken early and often. This is just one inherent in Ripple/Stellar. Everett is a hacker hero.

opendais 12y ago
Why is it always necessary to demonstrate the obvious in a selfish way for gain? And how is that 'heroic'?
- jdmichal 12y ago
  If your assertion is correct that Everett truly "broke" Stellar, than they will be worthless and he will have gained nothing. Your logic is contradictory.
  - opendais 12y ago
    You make 0 sense. I'm not sure if you just have trouble following what I wrote or what the issue is. > If your assertion is correct that Everett truly "broke" Stellar 1) That is not what I said. Much like the person who doesn't understand what "farming" means in context, I'm just going to assume poor comprehension on your part. 2) Even if that is what I said, he gained internet points and attention. That is still technically speaking "gain", at which point...you are still wrong. So, I think the issue here is: 1) You can't understand what I wrote either due to me or your poor reading comprehension. 2) You don't realize what you said is inherently false, regardless. --- At this point, I'm mainly just amused by how everyone leaps up to defend a guy who basically stole Stellars and then waited until he was called out to say anything. I wonder how well that would work at a bank. Care to try it for me?
    - jdmichal 12y ago
      He didn't steal them. He bought them from others. Meaning that he valued them more than the others. Welcome to economics. Also, you very clearly used the words "break the system".

adventured 12y ago

Systems of great value based on requiring voluntary restraint will always fail. If there's a particularly dumb mechanism that can easily break a system, then the entire system should fail, the sooner the better.

opendais 12y ago
Credit cards work out just fine.

wyager 12y ago

>Just because we can break dumb mechanisms like these just means we have to show restraint. Why the flying fuck would I show restraint towards a system that claims to be designed for the safe storage and transport of money? You bet your ass I, along with ten thousand others, tried to find ways to game/break Bitcoin. And guess what? We can't, because it's well designed. If Ripple/Stellar are gameable, they deserve to be gamed.

opendais 12y ago
> You bet your ass I, along with ten thousand others, tried to find ways to game/break Bitcoin. And guess what? We can't, because it's well designed. 51% attacks? http://www.coindesk.com/ghash-io-never-launch-51-attack/ http://www.coindesk.com/ghash-io-never-launch-51-attack/ ? Etc. Please don't tell me you can't game/break Bitcoin. With enough capital, you can. Just no one has bothered. Please don't make obviously false statements in defense of your position. > Why the flying fuck would I show restraint towards a system that claims to be designed for the safe storage and transport of money? I could steal people's credit card information and use it without triggering the fraud alert until after I get the goods. I could flee the country to a place that wouldn't extradite me for such behavior before anyone was the wiser. I don't because I have no desire to abuse breakable systems just because I can. I guess I just have more restraint than most people.
- wyager 12y ago
  >51% attacks? People have tried and failed to pull them off. Preventing 51% attacks doesn't rely on goodwill. It just relies on people being either semi-rational or not sufficiently rich and motivated (one must be very rich and very motivated). >Please don't tell me you can't game/break Bitcoin. With enough capital, you can. I am telling you right now: I cannot game or break Bitcoin. With enough capital, anyone can do just about anything. The important thing is that no one who wants to has enough capital. >I don't because I have no desire to abuse breakable systems just because I can. You're conflating stealing money with breaking shitty systems. You can (and should) break shitty systems without stealing money from people.