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Suggesting that autism can be healed or that there are children "who no longer have autism" is very misleading. Individuals can learn how to deal with the sympt

by 6581 12y ago

Suggesting that autism can be healed or that there are children "who no longer have autism" is very misleading. Individuals can learn how to deal with the symptoms of autism and how to appear "normal" to others, but that doesn't make it a cure. It's merely a way to try to fit into society that sometimes works out and sometimes doesn't. Edit: It would be helpful to know why I'm being downvoted in this thread. What I stated about the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria isn't wrong; that doesn't mean I agree with it.

thisjepisje 12y ago
Seeing as how autism is only diagnosed with tests, technically, if you pass the tests, you don't have autism.
- scott_karana 12y ago
  Tests can be gamed, can't they? There are plenty of "programmers" out of college who can't write a FizzBuzz in any language, despite passing their tests.
  - thisjepisje 12y ago
    Yes you're right, but until we have a better understanding of the neurophysiology of autism, there's simply no telling if treatments like these actually remove the autism from the brain, or simply make someone function despite their autism. Could be, and I'd be very glad if it were the case, I just don't know.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    What do you mean by gaming the tests? A cure that removes the apparent symptoms but doesn't cure the actual disease: is that gaming the system? And if so, well, so what?
- 6581 12y ago
  Autism is diagnosed by whether the DSM-5 or ICD-10 criteria apply to you or not. This can be determined via tests, but that doesn't make tests the only way to diagnose it. DSM-5 explicitly states that the criteria may apply "currently or by history", which rules out a cure for autism by definition.
astrange 12y ago
> Individuals can learn how to deal with the symptoms of autism and how to appear "normal" to others, but that doesn't make it a cure. How can you know that? I mean, you seem to be just restating the status quo against this article, but they've provided evidence against it, and you're not providing any evidence for it. It doesn't seem like the kids have to do anything consciously such that they'd "become autistic" again if they stopped. What's most interesting to me is that they can't tell what's going on inside young kids just by observing them.
- 6581 12y ago
  DSM-5 explicitly states that diagnostic criteria may apply "currently or by history". This makes a cure for autism impossible by definition.
  - cma 12y ago
    Newer history can exclude a diagnosis based on older history.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - voxic11 12y ago
    And yet it seems to be wrong.
    - ashleyp 12y ago
      There is NO evidence of a cure for Autism. Not even this article is evidence.
  - gohrt 12y ago
    http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/27-appeal-to-definition http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallaci... Even ignoring the fact that DSM has major changes in every revision... That's totally unhelpful. Use words to communicate, not confuse. If I say "two plus two is five", and then explain it by counting "one, two, three, five", it's clear that I am using a different word, but I have the same idea as the common "two plus two is four". When you seek to compate with a definition to empirical data, if the definition doesn't match, that means that the words we are using need to be clarified, not that the empirical data is wrong. (The data might be wrong, but "appeal to dictionary" is not a persuasive argument.
ChrisClark 12y ago
Yeah, my son is Autistic. I believe his brain is inherently different. He learns things differently, forced to learn things himself because he lacks an instinct, like speaking. Therapy is a way to teach him to interact and communicate with the world that doesn't quite fit his thought structure. I'd say it's more than just teaching him how to fit in and appear normal, that's a side effect of teaching him how understand the 'alien' society he is in.
- lotharbot 12y ago
  > "his brain is inherently different" I like to describe it as though the part of my brain that would normally be processing one type of signal seems like it's been repurposed to process something different [0]. Social signals are incredibly difficult, but I can navigate complex structures in 3D space (think: levels in Descent or similar video games) easily. My son doesn't make eye contact, but he's 4 years old and can do fraction calculations in his head that my 10 year old students struggled with. [0] note that I'm not claiming a specific physical mechanism, just describing how it feels -- things other people find easy I find incredibly challenging and vice versa, as if they have a dedicated brain-area for task X and I have one for task Y.
sliverstorm 12y ago
Honestly, you are who you pretend to be. We are all a little different on the inside than we appear. See a popular HN topic, Imposter Syndrome.

by 6581 12y ago

thisjepisje 12y ago

Seeing as how autism is only diagnosed with tests, technically, if you pass the tests, you don't have autism.

scott_karana 12y ago
Tests can be gamed, can't they? There are plenty of "programmers" out of college who can't write a FizzBuzz in any language, despite passing their tests.
- thisjepisje 12y ago
  Yes you're right, but until we have a better understanding of the neurophysiology of autism, there's simply no telling if treatments like these actually remove the autism from the brain, or simply make someone function despite their autism. Could be, and I'd be very glad if it were the case, I just don't know.
- DanBC 12y ago
  What do you mean by gaming the tests? A cure that removes the apparent symptoms but doesn't cure the actual disease: is that gaming the system? And if so, well, so what?
6581 12y ago
Autism is diagnosed by whether the DSM-5 or ICD-10 criteria apply to you or not. This can be determined via tests, but that doesn't make tests the only way to diagnose it. DSM-5 explicitly states that the criteria may apply "currently or by history", which rules out a cure for autism by definition.

astrange 12y ago

> Individuals can learn how to deal with the symptoms of autism and how to appear "normal" to others, but that doesn't make it a cure. How can you know that? I mean, you seem to be just restating the status quo against this article, but they've provided evidence against it, and you're not providing any evidence for it. It doesn't seem like the kids have to do anything consciously such that they'd "become autistic" again if they stopped. What's most interesting to me is that they can't tell what's going on inside young kids just by observing them.

6581 12y ago
DSM-5 explicitly states that diagnostic criteria may apply "currently or by history". This makes a cure for autism impossible by definition.
- cma 12y ago
  Newer history can exclude a diagnosis based on older history.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- voxic11 12y ago
  And yet it seems to be wrong.
  - ashleyp 12y ago
    There is NO evidence of a cure for Autism. Not even this article is evidence.
- gohrt 12y ago
  http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/27-appeal-to-definition http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallaci... Even ignoring the fact that DSM has major changes in every revision... That's totally unhelpful. Use words to communicate, not confuse. If I say "two plus two is five", and then explain it by counting "one, two, three, five", it's clear that I am using a different word, but I have the same idea as the common "two plus two is four". When you seek to compate with a definition to empirical data, if the definition doesn't match, that means that the words we are using need to be clarified, not that the empirical data is wrong. (The data might be wrong, but "appeal to dictionary" is not a persuasive argument.

ChrisClark 12y ago

Yeah, my son is Autistic. I believe his brain is inherently different. He learns things differently, forced to learn things himself because he lacks an instinct, like speaking. Therapy is a way to teach him to interact and communicate with the world that doesn't quite fit his thought structure. I'd say it's more than just teaching him how to fit in and appear normal, that's a side effect of teaching him how understand the 'alien' society he is in.

lotharbot 12y ago
> "his brain is inherently different" I like to describe it as though the part of my brain that would normally be processing one type of signal seems like it's been repurposed to process something different [0]. Social signals are incredibly difficult, but I can navigate complex structures in 3D space (think: levels in Descent or similar video games) easily. My son doesn't make eye contact, but he's 4 years old and can do fraction calculations in his head that my 10 year old students struggled with. [0] note that I'm not claiming a specific physical mechanism, just describing how it feels -- things other people find easy I find incredibly challenging and vice versa, as if they have a dedicated brain-area for task X and I have one for task Y.

sliverstorm 12y ago

Honestly, you are who you pretend to be. We are all a little different on the inside than we appear. See a popular HN topic, Imposter Syndrome.