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Nintendo Open Source Software Source Code Distribution Page

164 points by pdknsk 12y ago

pdknsk 12y ago
There is nothing particularly interesting, most is just their customised WebKit. MK8 uses a bluetooth library, only modified to compile with MSVC. DS emulation uses Nanojit, but I couldn't figure out the snapshot they used to run a diff against.
StevenXC 12y ago
Does this page leak news about Nintendo DS emulation for the Wii U Virtual Console? Or is this a mistake/old news?
- Kronopath 12y ago
  It might be DS emulation for 3DS. I'm pretty sure that DS games run under software emulation on that platform, given that you can do things like hit the "home" button to return to the 3DS's menu.
  - ntkachov 12y ago
    Nope. I think its hardware emulation. The DS games run on one of the processors. I think its the processor that runs the system OS, which is why you can't just back out of a DS game into the main menu, you have to quit the game. Also the reason why you don't get street passes when you play DS games.
    - DSMan195276 12y ago
      IIRC, it can't run the System OS at the same time because the system switches in to 'DS Mode'. The DS actually had two processors inside, and AFAIK the 3DS under-clocks both processors to match what the DS had and runs the games that way (And thus, while it's in 'DS Mode' the only way back to 3DS mode is via the Home button).
      - Danieru 12y ago
        Its also interesting to note that this is how Nintendo has handled backwards compatability for every gameboy generator. In the DS the GBA's arm was used for sound processing. And the GBA has a GBC's z80. The GBC itself was just a GB z80 with a higher clock and special memory space for color palettes.
        MBCook 12y ago
        I believe that's also how the PS2 worked. I think it used the PS1 processor as the sound chip as well so they didn't need to emulate the processor.
        glhaynes 12y ago
        Likewise the Sega Master System used a Z80 as its CPU; later, Sega used it for the Genesis / Mega Drive's sound management processor (plus a Yamaha synthesizer). If you plugged in the Power Base Converter, the Z80 would become the CPU and let you play Master System games.
        DSMan195276 12y ago
        More interestingly, I read something not to long ago that the GBA games released for the 'Ambassador' program on the 3DS are also run right on the hardware (For better or worse). I feel like that means the GBA's processor is also inside of the 3DS, probably because for 'DS Mode' to work it'd have to have a compatible sound processor in there somewhere.
        duskwuff 12y ago
        > Its also interesting to note that this is how Nintendo has handled backwards compatability for every gameboy generator. Same pattern as how they handled Game Cube compatibility on the Wii, I believe. I wouldn't be surprised if Wii mode on the Wii U were similar, but I'm not familiar with that.
        Danieru 12y ago
        True, in the case of both the Wii and WiiU they are mostly higher clocked Gamecubes. This is why Dolphin started as a Gamecube emulator and added Wii support. About a year ago I talked with one of the Dolphin developers and he anticipate extending to the WiiU once we have the CPU headroom.
- pdknsk 12y ago
  It was rather quietly announced earlier this year, during a financial results briefing. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/02.html http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/02.htm...
- mattl 12y ago
  They released Brain Training DS in JP and EU about a month ago for the Wii U.
thekylemontag 12y ago
Hopefully there will be some classic nintendo backdoors in this code somewhere.
- erikj 12y ago
  There is a working exploit for the Wii U web browser: https://bitbucket.org/Marionumber1/wiiu-userspace https://bitbucket.org/Marionumber1/wiiu-userspace
  - smtddr 12y ago
    Indeed, and for those keeping an eye on the scene... an exploit for newest firmware 5.1.0 was just released a day ago or so. http://www.eurasia.nu/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3324 http://www.eurasia.nu/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid... Keep an eye on the work MrBean has been doing to MarioKart8 - http://www.youtube.com/user/MrBean35000vr http://www.youtube.com/user/MrBean35000vr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S4ZhmanOeM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S4ZhmanOeM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVbZXqxIV7I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVbZXqxIV7I
nullsoldier 12y ago
As someone who's still learning about licenses. Does this mean that since they waited so long to release their OSS that they've been violating the terms of the licenses they've used to ship products for years (potentially)?
- ig1 12y ago
  No, GPL only requires you to provide source-code to users on request. No general publication requirement.
  - fs111 12y ago
    Yes, and those users are free to publish that code in any way they desire.
  - joncrocks 12y ago
    I think you also have to provide details of the licence/licensed components alongside your distributed software, so that users know they can actually request the source-code. http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html - "And you must show them these terms so they know their rights"
    - caw 12y ago
      Most games have all of this info in the credits, and if you get a manual anymore, in there.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
        Nintendo games all have manuals, they're just not physical. For example, if you put a 3DS Game Cart into a 3DS, there's a Manual button to bring up a nice HTML-style manual.
- jordigh 12y ago
  https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhatDoesWrittenOfferValid https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhatDoesWrittenOff... If they were distributing the binaries without any indication that they were GPL'ed (i.e. no written offers), then yes, it would have been a violation. But it's not a violation any longer. They seem to be under compliance.
antanique 12y ago
Now, I'm not a lawyer but the Mario Kart 8 package contains code that is GPL (not LGPL) - look at the bluetooth audio codec stuff. Does this mean that Nintendo is legally bound to release the whole source code of Mario Kart 8 now? :) The package is here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/support/oss/data/MarioKart8_OSS1.0.zip http://www.nintendo.co.jp/support/oss/data/MarioKart8_OSS1.0...
- oddevan 12y ago
  IIRC, only if it's statically linked. If it's on the disc as two different binaries that only talk to each other through the OS at runtime, then no, MK8 isn't required to be GPL. (It's the same principle that allowed Apple to include GCC with Xcode before LLVM came along.)
  - lucb1e 12y ago
    Someone downvoted this, I assume they mean to say it's incorrect? Can they or someone else elaborate?
    - jnbiche 12y ago
      I didn't downvote, but it's incorrect. They're confusing the GPL (which requires release regardless of static or dynamic linking) vs LGPL (which allows no release if only dynamically linked).
  - zbowling 12y ago
    GPL code you CANNOT link in anyway without your code being infected by the GPL license terms, dynamically or statically. You CAN invoke tools written in GPL just not the code (unless that GPL license has something like a classpath exception). The are also exceptions for libraries provided by OS. (Which is why you can GPL code on Windows which links a proprietary libc from Microsoft). Apple gets away with calling GCC because it's a different application being invoked by it's natural interface in the same way that Xcode invokes git internally. (And also why people use the libgit2 project when they need to call git as a library which licensed under LGPL with the classpath exception). Now LGPL is an entirely different story. LGPLv2 was intended that you be able to replace dynamically linked libraries in an application. The changes you made the library must be open sourced and I should be able to replace that library as a user. In theory you satisfy the requirements of the LGPL license if you wanted to statically link though if provide the objects and archives of your code if you wanted to statically link with LGPL code, but doing this was not really well defined in the license as valid. In LGPLv3 they clarified this is totally valid and allowed. The interesting thing is that LGPL was a license best written for C libraries at dynamical library level and breaks down in a few cases for different languages. It also breaks down where you have inlining and code getting embedded from headers that would break the ability in some cases for you to be able to change the library and relink. Implementation details of vtables, etc can get embedded too that would make it impossible to change the library. This is why during the GNU Classplath project (to replace the Java Classpath before Java went GPL anyways), they added the "classpath exception" to GPL itself instead of using LGPL. See here for details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception

164 points by pdknsk 12y ago

There is nothing particularly interesting, most is just their customised WebKit. MK8 uses a bluetooth library, only modified to compile with MSVC. DS emulation uses Nanojit, but I couldn't figure out the snapshot they used to run a diff against.

StevenXC 12y ago

Does this page leak news about Nintendo DS emulation for the Wii U Virtual Console? Or is this a mistake/old news?

Kronopath 12y ago
It might be DS emulation for 3DS. I'm pretty sure that DS games run under software emulation on that platform, given that you can do things like hit the "home" button to return to the 3DS's menu.
- ntkachov 12y ago
  Nope. I think its hardware emulation. The DS games run on one of the processors. I think its the processor that runs the system OS, which is why you can't just back out of a DS game into the main menu, you have to quit the game. Also the reason why you don't get street passes when you play DS games.
  - DSMan195276 12y ago
    IIRC, it can't run the System OS at the same time because the system switches in to 'DS Mode'. The DS actually had two processors inside, and AFAIK the 3DS under-clocks both processors to match what the DS had and runs the games that way (And thus, while it's in 'DS Mode' the only way back to 3DS mode is via the Home button).
    - Danieru 12y ago
      Its also interesting to note that this is how Nintendo has handled backwards compatability for every gameboy generator. In the DS the GBA's arm was used for sound processing. And the GBA has a GBC's z80. The GBC itself was just a GB z80 with a higher clock and special memory space for color palettes.
      - MBCook 12y ago
        I believe that's also how the PS2 worked. I think it used the PS1 processor as the sound chip as well so they didn't need to emulate the processor.
        glhaynes 12y ago
        Likewise the Sega Master System used a Z80 as its CPU; later, Sega used it for the Genesis / Mega Drive's sound management processor (plus a Yamaha synthesizer). If you plugged in the Power Base Converter, the Z80 would become the CPU and let you play Master System games.
      - DSMan195276 12y ago
        More interestingly, I read something not to long ago that the GBA games released for the 'Ambassador' program on the 3DS are also run right on the hardware (For better or worse). I feel like that means the GBA's processor is also inside of the 3DS, probably because for 'DS Mode' to work it'd have to have a compatible sound processor in there somewhere.
      - duskwuff 12y ago
        > Its also interesting to note that this is how Nintendo has handled backwards compatability for every gameboy generator. Same pattern as how they handled Game Cube compatibility on the Wii, I believe. I wouldn't be surprised if Wii mode on the Wii U were similar, but I'm not familiar with that.
        Danieru 12y ago
        True, in the case of both the Wii and WiiU they are mostly higher clocked Gamecubes. This is why Dolphin started as a Gamecube emulator and added Wii support. About a year ago I talked with one of the Dolphin developers and he anticipate extending to the WiiU once we have the CPU headroom.
pdknsk 12y ago
It was rather quietly announced earlier this year, during a financial results briefing. http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/02.html http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130/02.htm...
mattl 12y ago
They released Brain Training DS in JP and EU about a month ago for the Wii U.

thekylemontag 12y ago

Hopefully there will be some classic nintendo backdoors in this code somewhere.

erikj 12y ago
There is a working exploit for the Wii U web browser: https://bitbucket.org/Marionumber1/wiiu-userspace https://bitbucket.org/Marionumber1/wiiu-userspace
- smtddr 12y ago
  Indeed, and for those keeping an eye on the scene... an exploit for newest firmware 5.1.0 was just released a day ago or so. http://www.eurasia.nu/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3324 http://www.eurasia.nu/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid... Keep an eye on the work MrBean has been doing to MarioKart8 - http://www.youtube.com/user/MrBean35000vr http://www.youtube.com/user/MrBean35000vr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S4ZhmanOeM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S4ZhmanOeM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVbZXqxIV7I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVbZXqxIV7I

nullsoldier 12y ago

As someone who's still learning about licenses. Does this mean that since they waited so long to release their OSS that they've been violating the terms of the licenses they've used to ship products for years (potentially)?

ig1 12y ago
No, GPL only requires you to provide source-code to users on request. No general publication requirement.
- fs111 12y ago
  Yes, and those users are free to publish that code in any way they desire.
- joncrocks 12y ago
  I think you also have to provide details of the licence/licensed components alongside your distributed software, so that users know they can actually request the source-code. http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html - "And you must show them these terms so they know their rights"
  - caw 12y ago
    Most games have all of this info in the credits, and if you get a manual anymore, in there.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
      Nintendo games all have manuals, they're just not physical. For example, if you put a 3DS Game Cart into a 3DS, there's a Manual button to bring up a nice HTML-style manual.
jordigh 12y ago
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhatDoesWrittenOfferValid https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhatDoesWrittenOff... If they were distributing the binaries without any indication that they were GPL'ed (i.e. no written offers), then yes, it would have been a violation. But it's not a violation any longer. They seem to be under compliance.

antanique 12y ago

Now, I'm not a lawyer but the Mario Kart 8 package contains code that is GPL (not LGPL) - look at the bluetooth audio codec stuff. Does this mean that Nintendo is legally bound to release the whole source code of Mario Kart 8 now? :) The package is here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/support/oss/data/MarioKart8_OSS1.0.zip http://www.nintendo.co.jp/support/oss/data/MarioKart8_OSS1.0...

oddevan 12y ago
IIRC, only if it's statically linked. If it's on the disc as two different binaries that only talk to each other through the OS at runtime, then no, MK8 isn't required to be GPL. (It's the same principle that allowed Apple to include GCC with Xcode before LLVM came along.)
- lucb1e 12y ago
  Someone downvoted this, I assume they mean to say it's incorrect? Can they or someone else elaborate?
  - jnbiche 12y ago
    I didn't downvote, but it's incorrect. They're confusing the GPL (which requires release regardless of static or dynamic linking) vs LGPL (which allows no release if only dynamically linked).
- zbowling 12y ago
  GPL code you CANNOT link in anyway without your code being infected by the GPL license terms, dynamically or statically. You CAN invoke tools written in GPL just not the code (unless that GPL license has something like a classpath exception). The are also exceptions for libraries provided by OS. (Which is why you can GPL code on Windows which links a proprietary libc from Microsoft). Apple gets away with calling GCC because it's a different application being invoked by it's natural interface in the same way that Xcode invokes git internally. (And also why people use the libgit2 project when they need to call git as a library which licensed under LGPL with the classpath exception). Now LGPL is an entirely different story. LGPLv2 was intended that you be able to replace dynamically linked libraries in an application. The changes you made the library must be open sourced and I should be able to replace that library as a user. In theory you satisfy the requirements of the LGPL license if you wanted to statically link though if provide the objects and archives of your code if you wanted to statically link with LGPL code, but doing this was not really well defined in the license as valid. In LGPLv3 they clarified this is totally valid and allowed. The interesting thing is that LGPL was a license best written for C libraries at dynamical library level and breaks down in a few cases for different languages. It also breaks down where you have inlining and code getting embedded from headers that would break the ability in some cases for you to be able to change the library and relink. Implementation details of vtables, etc can get embedded too that would make it impossible to change the library. This is why during the GNU Classplath project (to replace the Java Classpath before Java went GPL anyways), they added the "classpath exception" to GPL itself instead of using LGPL. See here for details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception