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It's funny that we tell our children not to do things that will certainly have bad consequences for them, like putting their hand in fire. But still, there's mo

It's funny that we tell our children not to do things that will certainly have bad consequences for them, like putting their hand in fire. But still, there's mockery around after-life scenarios like we'd know something for certain. There's so much mystery around our existence, consciousness, suffering, that mocking precautions about after-life is incredibly foolish.

milesf 12y ago
The world is full of mockers and fools. I know, because that was me for the first 20 years of my life. Now that I'm 45, I hope I am less foolish, and that I mock less. ----- "Well I'm not sure I'm wiser but some things are clearer And it's getting clear that I'm not here for long. So what am I to do with my few minutes here in this place?" - Steven Curtis Chapman https://soundcloud.com/stevencurtischapman/a-little-more-time https://soundcloud.com/stevencurtischapman/a-little-more-tim...
- jemfinch 12y ago
  > The world is full of mockers and fools. And 84% of the population on this planet is religious... Quips aside, I regret nearly every thing I did that derived from the fanatical faith I held for my first quarter century, apart from finding my wife. I missed out on so much of life because of my devotion, and if I'm a mocker or a fool now, it's only because I have so few minutes in this place and regret having wasted so much of it on religion.
  - milesf 12y ago
    Sounds like you and I have had different faith experiences. I didn't grow up with it as a kid, so all of what I know I've had to discover as an adult. As far as mockers and fools, you only have to look as far as the comment section of YouTube to find a whole plethora of them. If the Internet had been around when I was growing up, I would have been right there among them.
    - bigpeopleareold 12y ago
      I grew up with it as a child but I went back and forth with it when I decided to stop caring too much over it and accept it as something that is good, in itself. The problems with people are always going to be more fundamental than what religion they attach themselves to. This has always been my experience, and it seems consistent all the time.
      - milesf 12y ago
        I've mostly observed that in technical circles (ie: Vim vs Emacs vs flavour of the month). I don't think it's a religion thing. I think it's a people thing.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    >And 84% of the population on this planet is religious... This doesn't mean they are fools. In fact, historically speaking religion served to form the basis of civilization. From arts to legal practices, most of our culture has its origin on religious practices and roots, and has evolved from there on (there is tons of anthropological research about it). Religion is not just about believing in some guy in the sky and his literal actions. Nor do all religions (and religious people) take such things literaly, the way some North Americans that believe in tele-evangelists and such do. It has been mainly used as a way to codify and pass on social ideas, thoughts about the meaning of life, about how we should treat each other, what is valuable etc. Sure there are fanatics and violence and all kind of bad things associated with religion. But there are such things associated with everything we do anyway: democracy, revolution, justice everything has been abused and turned to it's opposite at some point or another. Heck, even "humanitarian action" is often used as an excuse to exploit people.
- jqm 12y ago
  So is mockers and fools two separate categories?
  - milesf 12y ago
    Yeah, I think you can be a fool who doesn't mock others, or someone who mocks and isn't necessarily foolish. I'm just saying that I was both, and to some degree still am. Depends on who I'm being measured against.
superuser2 12y ago
There are at least two religions for which belief in one constitutes damnation in the other. At least one of them has to be wrong. Of course, to any person, his religion can't be wrong. (If it can, then it is at least in some sense not "his religion.") So to every strong believer, someone else's afterlife precautions are either superfluous or futile. Of course, that doesn't mean the question should be taken lightly, but it seems that as long as there are different religions, people have to believe that other people's afterlife precautions are not correct.
- krapp 12y ago
  When you think about it, once you accept that an afterlife is something worth worrying about, you're left with hundreds if not thousands of unfalsifiable, contradictory (and even antagonistic) folk tales and the task of choosing one and hoping you're right -- although for most people, this question is answered for them by the circumstances of their birth, and it seems normal, even obvious. So really, simply choosing to live the life you want to live is only marginally less risky than living in fear of the wrath of the god or gods which happen to coincide with the cultural norms in existence at the time. Either way it seems a bit like Russian Roulette.
  - milesf 12y ago
    Yeah, but how many folk tales do you know of have our calendar measured after the life of one man? 2014 AD or more fully "Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi". How many of those tales give you a single point of failure, that if you can explain away one point then internally the whole belief system collapses? (http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT with a modern explanation at http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus) Seems to me there might be more to the story than just a random dart throw at a wall of choices.
    - tspiteri 12y ago
      You are entitled to believe whatever you believe. But you cannot assert that your belief system is unique because of proof that depends on that same belief.
brazzy 12y ago
No. What is incredibly foolish is to contort your life because of that kind of elaborate lies.
lilsunnybee 12y ago
There's so much mystery around our existence, consciousness, suffering, that after we die what must happen is either we achieve eternal paradise, or eternal suffering and agony; also by the way i know for sure i'm going to paradise, and you're going to hell unless you believe the same things i do. Such a reasonable philosophy. /s

milesf 12y ago

The world is full of mockers and fools. I know, because that was me for the first 20 years of my life. Now that I'm 45, I hope I am less foolish, and that I mock less. ----- "Well I'm not sure I'm wiser but some things are clearer And it's getting clear that I'm not here for long. So what am I to do with my few minutes here in this place?" - Steven Curtis Chapman https://soundcloud.com/stevencurtischapman/a-little-more-time https://soundcloud.com/stevencurtischapman/a-little-more-tim...

jemfinch 12y ago
> The world is full of mockers and fools. And 84% of the population on this planet is religious... Quips aside, I regret nearly every thing I did that derived from the fanatical faith I held for my first quarter century, apart from finding my wife. I missed out on so much of life because of my devotion, and if I'm a mocker or a fool now, it's only because I have so few minutes in this place and regret having wasted so much of it on religion.
- milesf 12y ago
  Sounds like you and I have had different faith experiences. I didn't grow up with it as a kid, so all of what I know I've had to discover as an adult. As far as mockers and fools, you only have to look as far as the comment section of YouTube to find a whole plethora of them. If the Internet had been around when I was growing up, I would have been right there among them.
  - bigpeopleareold 12y ago
    I grew up with it as a child but I went back and forth with it when I decided to stop caring too much over it and accept it as something that is good, in itself. The problems with people are always going to be more fundamental than what religion they attach themselves to. This has always been my experience, and it seems consistent all the time.
    - milesf 12y ago
      I've mostly observed that in technical circles (ie: Vim vs Emacs vs flavour of the month). I don't think it's a religion thing. I think it's a people thing.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >And 84% of the population on this planet is religious... This doesn't mean they are fools. In fact, historically speaking religion served to form the basis of civilization. From arts to legal practices, most of our culture has its origin on religious practices and roots, and has evolved from there on (there is tons of anthropological research about it). Religion is not just about believing in some guy in the sky and his literal actions. Nor do all religions (and religious people) take such things literaly, the way some North Americans that believe in tele-evangelists and such do. It has been mainly used as a way to codify and pass on social ideas, thoughts about the meaning of life, about how we should treat each other, what is valuable etc. Sure there are fanatics and violence and all kind of bad things associated with religion. But there are such things associated with everything we do anyway: democracy, revolution, justice everything has been abused and turned to it's opposite at some point or another. Heck, even "humanitarian action" is often used as an excuse to exploit people.
jqm 12y ago
So is mockers and fools two separate categories?
- milesf 12y ago
  Yeah, I think you can be a fool who doesn't mock others, or someone who mocks and isn't necessarily foolish. I'm just saying that I was both, and to some degree still am. Depends on who I'm being measured against.

superuser2 12y ago

There are at least two religions for which belief in one constitutes damnation in the other. At least one of them has to be wrong. Of course, to any person, his religion can't be wrong. (If it can, then it is at least in some sense not "his religion.") So to every strong believer, someone else's afterlife precautions are either superfluous or futile. Of course, that doesn't mean the question should be taken lightly, but it seems that as long as there are different religions, people have to believe that other people's afterlife precautions are not correct.

krapp 12y ago
When you think about it, once you accept that an afterlife is something worth worrying about, you're left with hundreds if not thousands of unfalsifiable, contradictory (and even antagonistic) folk tales and the task of choosing one and hoping you're right -- although for most people, this question is answered for them by the circumstances of their birth, and it seems normal, even obvious. So really, simply choosing to live the life you want to live is only marginally less risky than living in fear of the wrath of the god or gods which happen to coincide with the cultural norms in existence at the time. Either way it seems a bit like Russian Roulette.
- milesf 12y ago
  Yeah, but how many folk tales do you know of have our calendar measured after the life of one man? 2014 AD or more fully "Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi". How many of those tales give you a single point of failure, that if you can explain away one point then internally the whole belief system collapses? (http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT with a modern explanation at http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus) Seems to me there might be more to the story than just a random dart throw at a wall of choices.
  - tspiteri 12y ago
    You are entitled to believe whatever you believe. But you cannot assert that your belief system is unique because of proof that depends on that same belief.

brazzy 12y ago

No. What is incredibly foolish is to contort your life because of that kind of elaborate lies.

lilsunnybee 12y ago

There's so much mystery around our existence, consciousness, suffering, that after we die what must happen is either we achieve eternal paradise, or eternal suffering and agony; also by the way i know for sure i'm going to paradise, and you're going to hell unless you believe the same things i do. Such a reasonable philosophy. /s