5 ms·

I was suicidal for an extended period of time many years ago. Doctors weren't sure what was wrong. The hospital emergency ward gave me clonazepam and ativan, bu

by milesf 12y ago

I was suicidal for an extended period of time many years ago. Doctors weren't sure what was wrong. The hospital emergency ward gave me clonazepam and ativan, but that was only a band-aid, and didn't help long term. Although I wanted to die, my fear of death and an eternity in the Lake of Fire was a far greater fear (Revelation 21:8). I'm not asking you to believe what I do. I'm just relaying what I went through, and the mindset I had at the time. As terrible as it was, that fear I had kept me alive. Finally found a doctor who was able to diagnose what I had. Got treatment, suicidal thoughts went away, and am doing much better now. I don't like to think back on that ordeal, but when I do meet people who are contemplating suicide, I absolutely can relate and empathize with the anguish they are experiencing.

cristianpascu 12y ago
It's funny that we tell our children not to do things that will certainly have bad consequences for them, like putting their hand in fire. But still, there's mockery around after-life scenarios like we'd know something for certain. There's so much mystery around our existence, consciousness, suffering, that mocking precautions about after-life is incredibly foolish.
- milesf 12y ago
  The world is full of mockers and fools. I know, because that was me for the first 20 years of my life. Now that I'm 45, I hope I am less foolish, and that I mock less. ----- "Well I'm not sure I'm wiser but some things are clearer And it's getting clear that I'm not here for long. So what am I to do with my few minutes here in this place?" - Steven Curtis Chapman https://soundcloud.com/stevencurtischapman/a-little-more-time https://soundcloud.com/stevencurtischapman/a-little-more-tim...
  - jemfinch 12y ago
    > The world is full of mockers and fools. And 84% of the population on this planet is religious... Quips aside, I regret nearly every thing I did that derived from the fanatical faith I held for my first quarter century, apart from finding my wife. I missed out on so much of life because of my devotion, and if I'm a mocker or a fool now, it's only because I have so few minutes in this place and regret having wasted so much of it on religion.
    - milesf 12y ago
      Sounds like you and I have had different faith experiences. I didn't grow up with it as a kid, so all of what I know I've had to discover as an adult. As far as mockers and fools, you only have to look as far as the comment section of YouTube to find a whole plethora of them. If the Internet had been around when I was growing up, I would have been right there among them.
      - bigpeopleareold 12y ago
        I grew up with it as a child but I went back and forth with it when I decided to stop caring too much over it and accept it as something that is good, in itself. The problems with people are always going to be more fundamental than what religion they attach themselves to. This has always been my experience, and it seems consistent all the time.
        milesf 12y ago
        I've mostly observed that in technical circles (ie: Vim vs Emacs vs flavour of the month). I don't think it's a religion thing. I think it's a people thing.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      >And 84% of the population on this planet is religious... This doesn't mean they are fools. In fact, historically speaking religion served to form the basis of civilization. From arts to legal practices, most of our culture has its origin on religious practices and roots, and has evolved from there on (there is tons of anthropological research about it). Religion is not just about believing in some guy in the sky and his literal actions. Nor do all religions (and religious people) take such things literaly, the way some North Americans that believe in tele-evangelists and such do. It has been mainly used as a way to codify and pass on social ideas, thoughts about the meaning of life, about how we should treat each other, what is valuable etc. Sure there are fanatics and violence and all kind of bad things associated with religion. But there are such things associated with everything we do anyway: democracy, revolution, justice everything has been abused and turned to it's opposite at some point or another. Heck, even "humanitarian action" is often used as an excuse to exploit people.
  - jqm 12y ago
    So is mockers and fools two separate categories?
    - milesf 12y ago
      Yeah, I think you can be a fool who doesn't mock others, or someone who mocks and isn't necessarily foolish. I'm just saying that I was both, and to some degree still am. Depends on who I'm being measured against.
- superuser2 12y ago
  There are at least two religions for which belief in one constitutes damnation in the other. At least one of them has to be wrong. Of course, to any person, his religion can't be wrong. (If it can, then it is at least in some sense not "his religion.") So to every strong believer, someone else's afterlife precautions are either superfluous or futile. Of course, that doesn't mean the question should be taken lightly, but it seems that as long as there are different religions, people have to believe that other people's afterlife precautions are not correct.
  - krapp 12y ago
    When you think about it, once you accept that an afterlife is something worth worrying about, you're left with hundreds if not thousands of unfalsifiable, contradictory (and even antagonistic) folk tales and the task of choosing one and hoping you're right -- although for most people, this question is answered for them by the circumstances of their birth, and it seems normal, even obvious. So really, simply choosing to live the life you want to live is only marginally less risky than living in fear of the wrath of the god or gods which happen to coincide with the cultural norms in existence at the time. Either way it seems a bit like Russian Roulette.
    - milesf 12y ago
      Yeah, but how many folk tales do you know of have our calendar measured after the life of one man? 2014 AD or more fully "Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi". How many of those tales give you a single point of failure, that if you can explain away one point then internally the whole belief system collapses? (http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT with a modern explanation at http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus) Seems to me there might be more to the story than just a random dart throw at a wall of choices.
      - tspiteri 12y ago
        You are entitled to believe whatever you believe. But you cannot assert that your belief system is unique because of proof that depends on that same belief.
- brazzy 12y ago
  No. What is incredibly foolish is to contort your life because of that kind of elaborate lies.
- lilsunnybee 12y ago
  There's so much mystery around our existence, consciousness, suffering, that after we die what must happen is either we achieve eternal paradise, or eternal suffering and agony; also by the way i know for sure i'm going to paradise, and you're going to hell unless you believe the same things i do. Such a reasonable philosophy. /s
Tyrant505 12y ago
There is a difference between not wanting to live and wanting to kill yourself.
- milesf 12y ago
  I wanted to kill myself, and I didn't want to live, so having lived both sides of that coin, I can categorically say it doesn't really matter what the difference is. It's not a place anyone ought to be. My advice: get help. If that fails, get help from someone else, and keep searching until you find it. Avoid things that only exacerbate the problem. If you find it hard to go on, focus on getting through just today. When it's really bad, focus on getting though the next hour. There is really, really good help out there. You just need to find it.
- lilsunnybee 12y ago
  It is simply a matter of degree rather than a fundamental difference however.
lilsunnybee 12y ago
Don't want to double-reply, but i really feel a reply i made to a post stemming from this one also applies here quite strongly. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8120459 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8120459 You can be afraid of the unknown and an uncertain fate without being sure of your damnation. Being sure of your own salvation is almost just as bad, especially when it's to the exclusion of anyone elses, when your good works and virtue might pale in comparison to others supposedly going to hell. It's also very arrogant, prideful and foolhardy, and a wellspring of hatred, condemnation, violence, war throughout history.
NAFV_P 12y ago
Revelations 21:8 (King James Version)> But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. It mentions sorcerers, other versions of the bible mention practitioners of magic. So basically most people who read HN are condemned to the Lake of Fire.
- milesf 12y ago
  Uh... yeah. Jesus Christ has been mischaracterized as someone who talks exclusively about peace and love, yet the most terrifying words (I think) ever written are in the seventh chapter of the Book of Matthew. Here's a snippet: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A13-14&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A13-...

by milesf 12y ago

cristianpascu 12y ago

It's funny that we tell our children not to do things that will certainly have bad consequences for them, like putting their hand in fire. But still, there's mockery around after-life scenarios like we'd know something for certain. There's so much mystery around our existence, consciousness, suffering, that mocking precautions about after-life is incredibly foolish.

milesf 12y ago
The world is full of mockers and fools. I know, because that was me for the first 20 years of my life. Now that I'm 45, I hope I am less foolish, and that I mock less. ----- "Well I'm not sure I'm wiser but some things are clearer And it's getting clear that I'm not here for long. So what am I to do with my few minutes here in this place?" - Steven Curtis Chapman https://soundcloud.com/stevencurtischapman/a-little-more-time https://soundcloud.com/stevencurtischapman/a-little-more-tim...
- jemfinch 12y ago
  > The world is full of mockers and fools. And 84% of the population on this planet is religious... Quips aside, I regret nearly every thing I did that derived from the fanatical faith I held for my first quarter century, apart from finding my wife. I missed out on so much of life because of my devotion, and if I'm a mocker or a fool now, it's only because I have so few minutes in this place and regret having wasted so much of it on religion.
  - milesf 12y ago
    Sounds like you and I have had different faith experiences. I didn't grow up with it as a kid, so all of what I know I've had to discover as an adult. As far as mockers and fools, you only have to look as far as the comment section of YouTube to find a whole plethora of them. If the Internet had been around when I was growing up, I would have been right there among them.
    - bigpeopleareold 12y ago
      I grew up with it as a child but I went back and forth with it when I decided to stop caring too much over it and accept it as something that is good, in itself. The problems with people are always going to be more fundamental than what religion they attach themselves to. This has always been my experience, and it seems consistent all the time.
      - milesf 12y ago
        I've mostly observed that in technical circles (ie: Vim vs Emacs vs flavour of the month). I don't think it's a religion thing. I think it's a people thing.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    >And 84% of the population on this planet is religious... This doesn't mean they are fools. In fact, historically speaking religion served to form the basis of civilization. From arts to legal practices, most of our culture has its origin on religious practices and roots, and has evolved from there on (there is tons of anthropological research about it). Religion is not just about believing in some guy in the sky and his literal actions. Nor do all religions (and religious people) take such things literaly, the way some North Americans that believe in tele-evangelists and such do. It has been mainly used as a way to codify and pass on social ideas, thoughts about the meaning of life, about how we should treat each other, what is valuable etc. Sure there are fanatics and violence and all kind of bad things associated with religion. But there are such things associated with everything we do anyway: democracy, revolution, justice everything has been abused and turned to it's opposite at some point or another. Heck, even "humanitarian action" is often used as an excuse to exploit people.
- jqm 12y ago
  So is mockers and fools two separate categories?
  - milesf 12y ago
    Yeah, I think you can be a fool who doesn't mock others, or someone who mocks and isn't necessarily foolish. I'm just saying that I was both, and to some degree still am. Depends on who I'm being measured against.
superuser2 12y ago
There are at least two religions for which belief in one constitutes damnation in the other. At least one of them has to be wrong. Of course, to any person, his religion can't be wrong. (If it can, then it is at least in some sense not "his religion.") So to every strong believer, someone else's afterlife precautions are either superfluous or futile. Of course, that doesn't mean the question should be taken lightly, but it seems that as long as there are different religions, people have to believe that other people's afterlife precautions are not correct.
- krapp 12y ago
  When you think about it, once you accept that an afterlife is something worth worrying about, you're left with hundreds if not thousands of unfalsifiable, contradictory (and even antagonistic) folk tales and the task of choosing one and hoping you're right -- although for most people, this question is answered for them by the circumstances of their birth, and it seems normal, even obvious. So really, simply choosing to live the life you want to live is only marginally less risky than living in fear of the wrath of the god or gods which happen to coincide with the cultural norms in existence at the time. Either way it seems a bit like Russian Roulette.
  - milesf 12y ago
    Yeah, but how many folk tales do you know of have our calendar measured after the life of one man? 2014 AD or more fully "Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi". How many of those tales give you a single point of failure, that if you can explain away one point then internally the whole belief system collapses? (http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT with a modern explanation at http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus) Seems to me there might be more to the story than just a random dart throw at a wall of choices.
    - tspiteri 12y ago
      You are entitled to believe whatever you believe. But you cannot assert that your belief system is unique because of proof that depends on that same belief.
brazzy 12y ago
No. What is incredibly foolish is to contort your life because of that kind of elaborate lies.
lilsunnybee 12y ago
There's so much mystery around our existence, consciousness, suffering, that after we die what must happen is either we achieve eternal paradise, or eternal suffering and agony; also by the way i know for sure i'm going to paradise, and you're going to hell unless you believe the same things i do. Such a reasonable philosophy. /s

Tyrant505 12y ago

There is a difference between not wanting to live and wanting to kill yourself.

milesf 12y ago
I wanted to kill myself, and I didn't want to live, so having lived both sides of that coin, I can categorically say it doesn't really matter what the difference is. It's not a place anyone ought to be. My advice: get help. If that fails, get help from someone else, and keep searching until you find it. Avoid things that only exacerbate the problem. If you find it hard to go on, focus on getting through just today. When it's really bad, focus on getting though the next hour. There is really, really good help out there. You just need to find it.
lilsunnybee 12y ago
It is simply a matter of degree rather than a fundamental difference however.

lilsunnybee 12y ago

Don't want to double-reply, but i really feel a reply i made to a post stemming from this one also applies here quite strongly. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8120459 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8120459 You can be afraid of the unknown and an uncertain fate without being sure of your damnation. Being sure of your own salvation is almost just as bad, especially when it's to the exclusion of anyone elses, when your good works and virtue might pale in comparison to others supposedly going to hell. It's also very arrogant, prideful and foolhardy, and a wellspring of hatred, condemnation, violence, war throughout history.

NAFV_P 12y ago

Revelations 21:8 (King James Version)> But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. It mentions sorcerers, other versions of the bible mention practitioners of magic. So basically most people who read HN are condemned to the Lake of Fire.

milesf 12y ago
Uh... yeah. Jesus Christ has been mischaracterized as someone who talks exclusively about peace and love, yet the most terrifying words (I think) ever written are in the seventh chapter of the Book of Matthew. Here's a snippet: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A13-14&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A13-...