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If you or I penetrated the Senate's computers I would expect we would spend quite a long time in jail. Is it naive for me to expect that someone at the CIA will

If you or I penetrated the Senate's computers I would expect we would spend quite a long time in jail. Is it naive for me to expect that someone at the CIA will spend a long time in jail?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
josephlord 12y ago
Well to be fair it is quite likely that the CIA was doing this legally which just goes to show the uselessness of the laws and the oversight provided by this particular committee. I think the CIA used to be prevented from operating domestically but that this has changed at least for terrorism. And this was clearly a case of terrorism because that report makes the US look bad and it could be used within terrorist propaganda.[0] [0] I wish I was being sarcastic but I think this is actually reality now [1] [1] See David Miranda detention at Heathrow.
- georgeecollins 12y ago
  I think the whole point is that it isn't legal and more importantly to the senate, it isn't constitutional. No one wants to prosecute anyone in the CIA. It's terrible politics. But this isn't legal.
  - Zelphyr 12y ago
    I personally don't care about how good or bad the politics are. The CIA clearly broke the law and anyone directly involved needs to be held accountable to the fullest extent possible. At the very least Director Brennan needs to be brought up on charges of perjury. Between him and Director Clapper the precedent is being set that its OK to lie to congress especially if you're a member of the Intelligence community. We simply can NOT have bodies with the power of the CIA and NSA spying on our own government or people. There's no way that ends well for us as a nation.
    - hadoukenio 12y ago
      Sadly, nothing will ever happen to Brennan or Clapper. And if there was even a wiff of charges, Obama will pardon them at the end of his presidency. But even more sadder is that by stating the above, you're possibly now on a list, used by the people above to keep tabs on you.
      - Zelphyr 12y ago
        I have a MacBook Pro and I visited BoingBoing once. I'm already on the list apparently.
    - fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
      Is there some sort of incompetence charge? That way later when he claims not to have direct knowledge he must be dismissed immediately on the basis that anyone who is the executive of the CIA and doesn't know that the CIA spied on the Senate Intel cmte, isn't fit to run the CIA.
      - 001sky 12y ago
        This is worth parsing. Is it really incompetence? Or is it actually a very high level of foresight? As a general rule, the only thing people are evered fired for is breaking the law. While there are exceptions to this, in an organization like the CIA, such would be aking to admitting terminal liability at the next level within the organization. (This seems to be why companies like GM never admit to an engineering flaw; or why wall street firms are never prosecuted criminally to the full extent of the law.)
        fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
        I believe that if a CIA director were actually oblivious to such a flagrant violation of law/ethics/trust/separation of powers, whatever you want to call it; then that would be incompetence. If after faced with the facts, he refused to immediately produce the perpetrators, that makes it malevolent, he is now a co-conspirator. Of course, I don't really believe it is incompetence, but rather, as you say the result of careful planning, or very competent crisis handling. If we can't prevent guys like Brennan from playing the "I didn't know... honest!" gambit, then at least that could trigger the "incompetence response" which would be immediate dismissal, and hopefully change the rules of the game a bit, even if it allowed the criminal a comparably graceful exit.
InclinedPlane 12y ago
If you or I participated in money laundering for drug smuggling we would spend forever in jail. That's true if the amount of money involved was thousands or millions of dollars. But once you get into billions of money laundered and once a big multi-national bank is involved then suddenly everything becomes less serious and only fines and admonishments are handed out.
baldfat 12y ago
Also will this even be news 48 hours from now? This is incredible and I don't see how heads don't fall. This is the scariest news yet and I bet most people are not even bothered by the lack of self-control certain points of our government has.
- cryoshon 12y ago
  It won't be news. The media has a lot of ties with the CIA that run decades deep. [0] [0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
  - hadoukenio 12y ago
    It's nothing to do with Operation Mockingbird. It's simply pure Kleptocracy. Anyone with an objective eye can see that this is the inevitable path the US has paved for itself.

If you or I penetrated the Senate's computers I would expect we would spend quite a long time in jail. Is it naive for me to expect that someone at the CIA will spend a long time in jail?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

josephlord 12y ago

Well to be fair it is quite likely that the CIA was doing this legally which just goes to show the uselessness of the laws and the oversight provided by this particular committee. I think the CIA used to be prevented from operating domestically but that this has changed at least for terrorism. And this was clearly a case of terrorism because that report makes the US look bad and it could be used within terrorist propaganda.[0] [0] I wish I was being sarcastic but I think this is actually reality now [1] [1] See David Miranda detention at Heathrow.

georgeecollins 12y ago
I think the whole point is that it isn't legal and more importantly to the senate, it isn't constitutional. No one wants to prosecute anyone in the CIA. It's terrible politics. But this isn't legal.
- Zelphyr 12y ago
  I personally don't care about how good or bad the politics are. The CIA clearly broke the law and anyone directly involved needs to be held accountable to the fullest extent possible. At the very least Director Brennan needs to be brought up on charges of perjury. Between him and Director Clapper the precedent is being set that its OK to lie to congress especially if you're a member of the Intelligence community. We simply can NOT have bodies with the power of the CIA and NSA spying on our own government or people. There's no way that ends well for us as a nation.
  - hadoukenio 12y ago
    Sadly, nothing will ever happen to Brennan or Clapper. And if there was even a wiff of charges, Obama will pardon them at the end of his presidency. But even more sadder is that by stating the above, you're possibly now on a list, used by the people above to keep tabs on you.
    - Zelphyr 12y ago
      I have a MacBook Pro and I visited BoingBoing once. I'm already on the list apparently.
  - fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
    Is there some sort of incompetence charge? That way later when he claims not to have direct knowledge he must be dismissed immediately on the basis that anyone who is the executive of the CIA and doesn't know that the CIA spied on the Senate Intel cmte, isn't fit to run the CIA.
    - 001sky 12y ago
      This is worth parsing. Is it really incompetence? Or is it actually a very high level of foresight? As a general rule, the only thing people are evered fired for is breaking the law. While there are exceptions to this, in an organization like the CIA, such would be aking to admitting terminal liability at the next level within the organization. (This seems to be why companies like GM never admit to an engineering flaw; or why wall street firms are never prosecuted criminally to the full extent of the law.)
      - fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
        I believe that if a CIA director were actually oblivious to such a flagrant violation of law/ethics/trust/separation of powers, whatever you want to call it; then that would be incompetence. If after faced with the facts, he refused to immediately produce the perpetrators, that makes it malevolent, he is now a co-conspirator. Of course, I don't really believe it is incompetence, but rather, as you say the result of careful planning, or very competent crisis handling. If we can't prevent guys like Brennan from playing the "I didn't know... honest!" gambit, then at least that could trigger the "incompetence response" which would be immediate dismissal, and hopefully change the rules of the game a bit, even if it allowed the criminal a comparably graceful exit.

InclinedPlane 12y ago

If you or I participated in money laundering for drug smuggling we would spend forever in jail. That's true if the amount of money involved was thousands or millions of dollars. But once you get into billions of money laundered and once a big multi-national bank is involved then suddenly everything becomes less serious and only fines and admonishments are handed out.

baldfat 12y ago

Also will this even be news 48 hours from now? This is incredible and I don't see how heads don't fall. This is the scariest news yet and I bet most people are not even bothered by the lack of self-control certain points of our government has.

cryoshon 12y ago
It won't be news. The media has a lot of ties with the CIA that run decades deep. [0] [0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
- hadoukenio 12y ago
  It's nothing to do with Operation Mockingbird. It's simply pure Kleptocracy. Anyone with an objective eye can see that this is the inevitable path the US has paved for itself.