5 ms·

Well, not heating your house enough can also cost you your house as mold and ice can grow in very cold zone of your house. But I do like the ingenuity of the so

by debrice 12y ago

Well, not heating your house enough can also cost you your house as mold and ice can grow in very cold zone of your house. But I do like the ingenuity of the solution. Shit Norwegians Say: “There’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes”

schiffern 12y ago
This is addressed in the article. >FAQ: It might work in Montana, but in Seattle, our windows would get moldy >There are a variety of ways to mitigate the mold problems that occur in cold, humid climates. I did some experimenting when I lived in the Seattle area and have compared notes with people that are still living there. This is a really large issues even if you don't try this. While there are many things to be done, I think the first two would be: 1) learn how to properly clean mold problems (borax, not bleach) and 2) a dehumidifier nearly eliminates all mold problems and gives off heat.
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  Vinegar is also excellent at combating mold (before it gets established), and is gentle on pretty much any surface. A 50-50 vinegar-water solution can simply be sprayed onto walls, floors, carpets, and other surfaces. Another is fully airing out a bathroom. I'll set a fan to move air until the walls and other surfaces are dry. Especially useful if you've got an interior bathroom. Otherwise, an openable window is highly useful.
  - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
    >I'll set a fan to move air until the walls and other surfaces are dry. // Aren't you just ensuring the whole house is damp then, unless your humidity is low enough in the first place I suppose.
    - dredmorbius 12y ago
      No, though generally I'm not in environments where thermal control is a major concern, so the interior tends to be well-ventilated. They key is to understand that a shower is essentially a big humidity generator. So you want to shower with internal doors closed, but external windows open, if they're available. Otherwise you're simply pumping moisture into the residence. Once you've completed your shower, you're no longer introducing more moisture into the environment, so removing / diluting what you've got is the key. An exhaust fan is also useful, though most are relatively low-flow -- this is one element where if I am designing my own structure I'd have a high-capacity, high-flow, and if at all possible, quiet, fixture. A typical 100 CFM fan will require over 5 minutes to achieve a 100% exchange of air within even a modest-sized bathroom, say 6' x 12' x 7.5'. They'll rarely keep up with the generation of humidity during a shower. The real key is that a high-mounted fan removes the moist air that pools above your door jamb. The situation also depends on whether you're in a warm or cold, heating, cooling, or ambient, and humid or dry environment. In cold-weather winter climates, your usual problem is that interiors are too dry, so your bathroom humidity is useful for interior comfort. In a temperate/warm and humid environment, your main concern is venting the bathroom (first) followed by reducing standing moisture. And if it's humid enough that interior humidity is an issue I've likely got a dehumidifier for high-humidity periods. My usual strategy (yes, I've got a bathroom venting strategy) is: For an exterior bath or one with an openable skylight: shower with interior doors closed and the window open. Humidity is generated by tends to escape, keeping total build-up limited. I may or may not shower with the exhaust fan on, but always turn it on afterward, if only to evacuate high-rising moisture. Following shower, spray down shower doors/curtain and walls with vinegar or other (preferably organic) anti-microbial. If the area has higher humidity, a 14" floor fan is good to help evaporate standing water on floors or walls. Mildew tends to form most aggressively in areas in which water pools, and by removing that water and treating it to be inhospitable, you'll virtually eliminate any build-up. For an interior bath, shower with the interior door closed. Exhaust fan is either on or turned on following the shower (much more out of concern for noise than energy -- most fans I've encountered are annoyingly loud as well as relatively ineffective). I'll crack the interior door to allow fresh air in for a minute or so, then swing it wide open. Swirling a towel can help achieve a good vertical air mix (moist, warm air tends to rise), which levels out total humidity and eliminates high-humidity spots. Spray walls and floors with vinegar mix, finish my grooming, then turn on a floor fan to remove additional standing moisture on walls / floor. Airing out bath mats also helps markedly. Note that a bathroom is rarely more than 10% of your total interior area as well (and often less). So even dumping a 100% humid bath's air into your residence will tend to provide less than a ~10% boost in interior humidity. My experience is that air tends not to feel overly humid until it gets above 60-70% humidity, and that humidity tends to normalize fairly quickly over a larger area. The real threat is _standing_ water. End result is that I very, very rarely have bathroom mildew issues, rarely use a chlorine-based mildew treatment (though I've got a spray bottle of bleach too that may get used 1-4x monthly), and spend only a few seconds a day dealing with the matter.
- roel_v 12y ago
  " 1) learn how to properly clean mold problems" That was one of the parts that made me go %O most - when you live in a house where the internal climate is such that it will let mold grow, it's downright unhealthy to live there. It's like saying 'yeah driving while drunk is dangerous, you'd better have a box of band aid laying around in your car for when you get into an accident'. Uh no, don't drive while drunk, eh?
  - thaumasiotes 12y ago
    > when you live in a house where the internal climate is such that it will let mold grow, it's downright unhealthy to live there Why do you believe this?
    - DanBC 12y ago
      http://www.cdc.gov/mold/dampness_facts.htm http://www.cdc.gov/mold/dampness_facts.htm > In addition, in 2004 the IOM found sufficient evidence to link exposure to damp indoor environments in general to upper respiratory tract symptoms, cough, and wheeze in otherwise healthy people and with asthma symptoms in people with asthma. The IOM also found limited or suggestive evidence linking exposure to damp indoor environments in general to shortness of breath, to respiratory illness in otherwise healthy children and to potential development of asthma in susceptible individuals. In 2009, the World Health Organization issued additional guidance, the WHO Guidelines for Indoor Air Quality: Dampness and Mould. Other recent studies have suggested a potential link of early mold exposure to development of asthma in some children, particularly among children who may be genetically susceptible to asthma development, and that selected interventions that improve housing conditions can reduce morbidity from asthma and respiratory allergies, but more research is needed in this regard. Whether that counts as "downright unhealthy" is up to you. http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/78636/Damp_Mould_Brochure.pdf http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/78636/Da...
      - thaumasiotes 12y ago
        It seems worth pointing out that the last 75% of the text you quote amounts to saying "we couldn't document these risks, but we'd like to warn you about them anyway". The first part links mold to (1) symptoms you'll recognize if you have them, in healthy people, and (2) asthma, in people with asthma. This is not a strong case for environmental mold being dangerous.
chaostheory 12y ago
Yes mold is very annoying, but maybe he can experiment with dehumidifiers in key areas to mitigate it. Of course it would probably kill a lot of his energy savings.
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  Dehumidifiers are reasonably efficient, and in a cold-weather climate, the waste heat is actually a bonus as it contributes to interior heating.
  - JetSetWilly 12y ago
    They are only very efficient in warm temperatures. The colder it gets the harder the dehumidifier has to work and the less efficient it gets - as it operates based on a temperature differential. So I suppose, if you are running a dehumidifier in a cold room, you need to particularly consider how well it operates in cold, some dehumidifiers are particularly bad in that environment.
    - dredmorbius 12y ago
      There are few cold-weather climates in which humidity is a significant concern, and heating tends to reduce absolute humidity. What's the transition point below which efficiency is markedly reduced?

by debrice 12y ago

schiffern 12y ago

This is addressed in the article. >FAQ: It might work in Montana, but in Seattle, our windows would get moldy >There are a variety of ways to mitigate the mold problems that occur in cold, humid climates. I did some experimenting when I lived in the Seattle area and have compared notes with people that are still living there. This is a really large issues even if you don't try this. While there are many things to be done, I think the first two would be: 1) learn how to properly clean mold problems (borax, not bleach) and 2) a dehumidifier nearly eliminates all mold problems and gives off heat.

dredmorbius 12y ago
Vinegar is also excellent at combating mold (before it gets established), and is gentle on pretty much any surface. A 50-50 vinegar-water solution can simply be sprayed onto walls, floors, carpets, and other surfaces. Another is fully airing out a bathroom. I'll set a fan to move air until the walls and other surfaces are dry. Especially useful if you've got an interior bathroom. Otherwise, an openable window is highly useful.
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  >I'll set a fan to move air until the walls and other surfaces are dry. // Aren't you just ensuring the whole house is damp then, unless your humidity is low enough in the first place I suppose.
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    No, though generally I'm not in environments where thermal control is a major concern, so the interior tends to be well-ventilated. They key is to understand that a shower is essentially a big humidity generator. So you want to shower with internal doors closed, but external windows open, if they're available. Otherwise you're simply pumping moisture into the residence. Once you've completed your shower, you're no longer introducing more moisture into the environment, so removing / diluting what you've got is the key. An exhaust fan is also useful, though most are relatively low-flow -- this is one element where if I am designing my own structure I'd have a high-capacity, high-flow, and if at all possible, quiet, fixture. A typical 100 CFM fan will require over 5 minutes to achieve a 100% exchange of air within even a modest-sized bathroom, say 6' x 12' x 7.5'. They'll rarely keep up with the generation of humidity during a shower. The real key is that a high-mounted fan removes the moist air that pools above your door jamb. The situation also depends on whether you're in a warm or cold, heating, cooling, or ambient, and humid or dry environment. In cold-weather winter climates, your usual problem is that interiors are too dry, so your bathroom humidity is useful for interior comfort. In a temperate/warm and humid environment, your main concern is venting the bathroom (first) followed by reducing standing moisture. And if it's humid enough that interior humidity is an issue I've likely got a dehumidifier for high-humidity periods. My usual strategy (yes, I've got a bathroom venting strategy) is: For an exterior bath or one with an openable skylight: shower with interior doors closed and the window open. Humidity is generated by tends to escape, keeping total build-up limited. I may or may not shower with the exhaust fan on, but always turn it on afterward, if only to evacuate high-rising moisture. Following shower, spray down shower doors/curtain and walls with vinegar or other (preferably organic) anti-microbial. If the area has higher humidity, a 14" floor fan is good to help evaporate standing water on floors or walls. Mildew tends to form most aggressively in areas in which water pools, and by removing that water and treating it to be inhospitable, you'll virtually eliminate any build-up. For an interior bath, shower with the interior door closed. Exhaust fan is either on or turned on following the shower (much more out of concern for noise than energy -- most fans I've encountered are annoyingly loud as well as relatively ineffective). I'll crack the interior door to allow fresh air in for a minute or so, then swing it wide open. Swirling a towel can help achieve a good vertical air mix (moist, warm air tends to rise), which levels out total humidity and eliminates high-humidity spots. Spray walls and floors with vinegar mix, finish my grooming, then turn on a floor fan to remove additional standing moisture on walls / floor. Airing out bath mats also helps markedly. Note that a bathroom is rarely more than 10% of your total interior area as well (and often less). So even dumping a 100% humid bath's air into your residence will tend to provide less than a ~10% boost in interior humidity. My experience is that air tends not to feel overly humid until it gets above 60-70% humidity, and that humidity tends to normalize fairly quickly over a larger area. The real threat is _standing_ water. End result is that I very, very rarely have bathroom mildew issues, rarely use a chlorine-based mildew treatment (though I've got a spray bottle of bleach too that may get used 1-4x monthly), and spend only a few seconds a day dealing with the matter.
roel_v 12y ago
" 1) learn how to properly clean mold problems" That was one of the parts that made me go %O most - when you live in a house where the internal climate is such that it will let mold grow, it's downright unhealthy to live there. It's like saying 'yeah driving while drunk is dangerous, you'd better have a box of band aid laying around in your car for when you get into an accident'. Uh no, don't drive while drunk, eh?
- thaumasiotes 12y ago
  > when you live in a house where the internal climate is such that it will let mold grow, it's downright unhealthy to live there Why do you believe this?
  - DanBC 12y ago
    http://www.cdc.gov/mold/dampness_facts.htm http://www.cdc.gov/mold/dampness_facts.htm > In addition, in 2004 the IOM found sufficient evidence to link exposure to damp indoor environments in general to upper respiratory tract symptoms, cough, and wheeze in otherwise healthy people and with asthma symptoms in people with asthma. The IOM also found limited or suggestive evidence linking exposure to damp indoor environments in general to shortness of breath, to respiratory illness in otherwise healthy children and to potential development of asthma in susceptible individuals. In 2009, the World Health Organization issued additional guidance, the WHO Guidelines for Indoor Air Quality: Dampness and Mould. Other recent studies have suggested a potential link of early mold exposure to development of asthma in some children, particularly among children who may be genetically susceptible to asthma development, and that selected interventions that improve housing conditions can reduce morbidity from asthma and respiratory allergies, but more research is needed in this regard. Whether that counts as "downright unhealthy" is up to you. http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/78636/Damp_Mould_Brochure.pdf http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/78636/Da...
    - thaumasiotes 12y ago
      It seems worth pointing out that the last 75% of the text you quote amounts to saying "we couldn't document these risks, but we'd like to warn you about them anyway". The first part links mold to (1) symptoms you'll recognize if you have them, in healthy people, and (2) asthma, in people with asthma. This is not a strong case for environmental mold being dangerous.

chaostheory 12y ago

Yes mold is very annoying, but maybe he can experiment with dehumidifiers in key areas to mitigate it. Of course it would probably kill a lot of his energy savings.

dredmorbius 12y ago
Dehumidifiers are reasonably efficient, and in a cold-weather climate, the waste heat is actually a bonus as it contributes to interior heating.
- JetSetWilly 12y ago
  They are only very efficient in warm temperatures. The colder it gets the harder the dehumidifier has to work and the less efficient it gets - as it operates based on a temperature differential. So I suppose, if you are running a dehumidifier in a cold room, you need to particularly consider how well it operates in cold, some dehumidifiers are particularly bad in that environment.
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    There are few cold-weather climates in which humidity is a significant concern, and heating tends to reduce absolute humidity. What's the transition point below which efficiency is markedly reduced?