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It's good that Google learned from this problem, and built a solution into their naming when releasing Chrome; the open source project is named Chromium, and is

by lambda 12y ago

It's good that Google learned from this problem, and built a solution into their naming when releasing Chrome; the open source project is named Chromium, and is what distro versions can be named, and the official build from Google is named Chrome. It would be nice if Mozilla would follow suit, and come up with an official name for the open source project and community builds which is distinct from their official branded builds. Right now Debian uses "IceWeasel", GNU uses "IceCat", and other distros would have to come up with their own name if they made changes that were incompatible with Mozilla's trademark policy. On the other hand, in pretty much every repository, you find "Chromium", but if you instead download straight from Google you get "Chrome".

chimeracoder 12y ago
Chromium and Chrome differ in a number of ways beyond the name and trademark, though. Iceweasel is literally just Firefox packaged for Debian, except with a different name and icon. I don't think there is any functional difference (beyond the normal distro-specific packaging that every distro does). Chromium lacks a number of features that Chrome has, because Chrome comes bundled with a bunch of proprietary components that will never be distributed with Chromium. A basic example is that Chromium cannot (without a patch) display PDFs in-browser, the way Chrome can. Chromium also cannot support Chromecast, or any of the many other Chrome-specific features, of which there are many[0] [0] https://i.imgur.com/AIxYzl9.jpg https://i.imgur.com/AIxYzl9.jpg (screenshot is from Firefox, but it illustrates how much Google focuses on Chrome-specific functionality.)
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- BaryonBundle 12y ago
  Just to add to this, Google recently open sourced the PDF rendering engine in Chrome [1], so I imagine that it'll be included in Chromium soon. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7781878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7781878
- lftl 12y ago
  It's somewhat trivial, but I remember one change that precipitated Mozilla's complaint was a patch that stopped GIF animation when hitting the escape key. This was years ago though, so I don't know offhand what functionality Debian currently maintains that isn't in mainline Firefox.
- lambda 12y ago
  Iceweasel is literally just Firefox packaged for Debian, except with a different name and icon. If you read this bug report[1], it's really about more than just a "different name and icon." If they used the official name and icon, they would have needed to have every patch be reviewed by Mozilla, which has serious problems for urgent security patches. And in that discussion, Mozilla voiced concern about several of Debian's patches. It looks like there has been some effort to do what I've described, come up with a generic default name for Firefox builds that can be used as a default, unbranded version[2] rather than requiring every distro that doesn't want to or can't comply with Mozilla's trademark policy have to do it on their own, but the effort appears to have stalled. Chromium lacks a number of features that Chrome has, because Chrome comes bundled with a bunch of proprietary components that will never be distributed with Chromium. Sure, I'm not saying that the situations are exactly analogous, just that Chromium has managed to much better avoid the kind of trademark issues with distros that caused so much trouble for Firefox and Debian. On the other hand, as pointed out elsewhere in the thread, it appears that there is no official Chromium trademark policy (at least easily discoverable), but it seems that most distros have been able to use the name without complaint from Google. [1]: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622 [2]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682414 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682414
icebraining 12y ago
Yeah, but IceCat is not the same as IceWeasel (it has different patches), so it makes sense for them to have different names. Mozilla lets you use Firefox if you don't change the source; I believe Fedora and other distros release it with the original name. The difference is that, unlike Debian, they don't apply patches to the upstream source in their builds. And I find it hard to believe that Google allows you to use the Chromium mark if you release a patched build; they're probably no different than Mozilla in that regard.
- rockdoe 12y ago
  Chromium in debian is extensively patched. It disables third party cookies, for example. That said, I couldn't find a real trademark policy page for Chromium. If it's the generic Google one: http://www.google.com/permissions/trademark/our-trademarks.html http://www.google.com/permissions/trademark/our-trademarks.h... then Debian is clearly in violation of it.
- cbhl 12y ago
  Debian does apply patches -- just look at their packaging repository: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-chromium/pkg-chromium.git/tree/debian/patches http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-chromium/pkg-chromium.git... Google also documents that Chromium may have distro-specific patches applied and how it differs from the Google Chrome binaries provided by Google: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxChromiumPackages https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxChromiumPackage... https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoogleChrome https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoo...
rockdoe 12y ago
an official name for the open source project and community builds They already did, it's called "Firefox". The ones that chose another name did so because they're making a different browser. Google needed a different name because Chrome isn't open source at all.

by lambda 12y ago

chimeracoder 12y ago

Chromium and Chrome differ in a number of ways beyond the name and trademark, though. Iceweasel is literally just Firefox packaged for Debian, except with a different name and icon. I don't think there is any functional difference (beyond the normal distro-specific packaging that every distro does). Chromium lacks a number of features that Chrome has, because Chrome comes bundled with a bunch of proprietary components that will never be distributed with Chromium. A basic example is that Chromium cannot (without a patch) display PDFs in-browser, the way Chrome can. Chromium also cannot support Chromecast, or any of the many other Chrome-specific features, of which there are many[0] [0] https://i.imgur.com/AIxYzl9.jpg https://i.imgur.com/AIxYzl9.jpg (screenshot is from Firefox, but it illustrates how much Google focuses on Chrome-specific functionality.)

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
BaryonBundle 12y ago
Just to add to this, Google recently open sourced the PDF rendering engine in Chrome [1], so I imagine that it'll be included in Chromium soon. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7781878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7781878
lftl 12y ago
It's somewhat trivial, but I remember one change that precipitated Mozilla's complaint was a patch that stopped GIF animation when hitting the escape key. This was years ago though, so I don't know offhand what functionality Debian currently maintains that isn't in mainline Firefox.
lambda 12y ago
Iceweasel is literally just Firefox packaged for Debian, except with a different name and icon. If you read this bug report[1], it's really about more than just a "different name and icon." If they used the official name and icon, they would have needed to have every patch be reviewed by Mozilla, which has serious problems for urgent security patches. And in that discussion, Mozilla voiced concern about several of Debian's patches. It looks like there has been some effort to do what I've described, come up with a generic default name for Firefox builds that can be used as a default, unbranded version[2] rather than requiring every distro that doesn't want to or can't comply with Mozilla's trademark policy have to do it on their own, but the effort appears to have stalled. Chromium lacks a number of features that Chrome has, because Chrome comes bundled with a bunch of proprietary components that will never be distributed with Chromium. Sure, I'm not saying that the situations are exactly analogous, just that Chromium has managed to much better avoid the kind of trademark issues with distros that caused so much trouble for Firefox and Debian. On the other hand, as pointed out elsewhere in the thread, it appears that there is no official Chromium trademark policy (at least easily discoverable), but it seems that most distros have been able to use the name without complaint from Google. [1]: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622 [2]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682414 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682414

icebraining 12y ago

Yeah, but IceCat is not the same as IceWeasel (it has different patches), so it makes sense for them to have different names. Mozilla lets you use Firefox if you don't change the source; I believe Fedora and other distros release it with the original name. The difference is that, unlike Debian, they don't apply patches to the upstream source in their builds. And I find it hard to believe that Google allows you to use the Chromium mark if you release a patched build; they're probably no different than Mozilla in that regard.

rockdoe 12y ago
Chromium in debian is extensively patched. It disables third party cookies, for example. That said, I couldn't find a real trademark policy page for Chromium. If it's the generic Google one: http://www.google.com/permissions/trademark/our-trademarks.html http://www.google.com/permissions/trademark/our-trademarks.h... then Debian is clearly in violation of it.
cbhl 12y ago
Debian does apply patches -- just look at their packaging repository: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-chromium/pkg-chromium.git/tree/debian/patches http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-chromium/pkg-chromium.git... Google also documents that Chromium may have distro-specific patches applied and how it differs from the Google Chrome binaries provided by Google: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxChromiumPackages https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxChromiumPackage... https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoogleChrome https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoo...

rockdoe 12y ago

an official name for the open source project and community builds They already did, it's called "Firefox". The ones that chose another name did so because they're making a different browser. Google needed a different name because Chrome isn't open source at all.