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This isn't just limited to finance. Language creates barriers in all fields, finance and science are the ones most familiar to me. Programming as well -- someo

This isn't just limited to finance. Language creates barriers in all fields, finance and science are the ones most familiar to me. Programming as well -- someone recently looked alarmed when I told them to "kill" an app on their phone.

snoldak924 12y ago
This is incredibly true. In programming, just as in construction, "jargon" is required to keep things concise and to the point. Many times this "obfuscation" is really just necessity.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  'halt' would work just as well as 'kill' but the latter sounds cooler. It's OK to use jargon within a professional context, but using it without regard to one's audience is generally obfuscatory.
  - Mandelbug 12y ago
    The latter isn't used because it sounds cooler, it is literally rooted in the "kill" command on UNIX systems of old. The kill command is still used today, but can be used to send signals to running applications aside from "please exit immediately". If you want to get really nitpicky, halt isn't as absolute and precise as kill. Halt can mean that the app's activity is simply paused, but its resources are still held and it can in the future be resumed from its original position. Kill very much and in no uncertain terms means to immediately terminate the execution of an application without further processing of the current task. They really aren't interchangeable terms. If you are talking about interchangeability to an end-user who doesn't have such knowledge, I would argue even then some users may understand the different between not using an app and actually terminating it. Such as halting a video vs closing the window. If you are looking for analogies of proof of understanding, people say to "kill the engine" or other mechanical devices. So again, the term "kill" used in reference to terminating things isn't that weird. The individual who was surprised to hear of killing an app could have been surprised for a variety of reasons, but not in such a way that I think "halt" should be used over kill.
  - Terr_ 12y ago
    "Halt" isn't strong enough. You aren't just making it pause wherever it happens to be, you are getting rid of it.
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      Halt used to mean absolute termination rather than a pause, as in The Halting Problem. This was still used as the canonical term in UK computer terminology when I was growing up, but it may be different elsewhere.
      - arethuza 12y ago
        Isn't "absolute termination" the Unix meaning of "halt" as well?
        anigbrowl 12y ago
        I thought so but others seem to disagree.
        Terr_ 12y ago
        I don't disagree about its technical meaning, but this entire debate is about what it OUGHT to be so that NON-technical people have an easier time. In that respect, "kill" is probably better, since it accurately conveys common ideas like "irreversible" and "messy".
lostcolony 12y ago
This is kind of the key to communication; knowing your audience, and tailoring your communication to them. Too often we attempt to explain jargon once, which the audience still doesn't follow, and then we blithely continue using it. Or worse, acronyms; we think it's sufficient to expand them once and we're done (rather than explain it, and then use something the reader will actually remember in every case). It's a skill to recognize what level of understanding your audience has, and to be able to explain yourself to their level. We forget either that our audience isn't (whatever), or we forget that the point isn't to turn our audience into (whatever), in fact, that our audience may care nothing about (whatever) -except for the particular bit we're trying to communicate-; we need to use our position as (whatever) to explain a concept in a way that is understandable from the audience's perspective as it is. That's why analogy is often used, for better or ill.
cmollis 12y ago
Every time u implement someone else's API you fall Into the same trap.
sn41 12y ago
It is even worse when you cross cultural barriers. I was recently in a discussion where a guy from an unnamed company in India has decided to change "Sign Up" in one of their services to "Join" just because in India the first does not immediately suggest a user what to do. There's also the perennial complaint that sporting analogies and slang make no sense across countries - G. H. Hardy's cricketing analogies and an American professor's baseball or NFL insights are gibberish on the other side of the Atlantic.

snoldak924 12y ago

This is incredibly true. In programming, just as in construction, "jargon" is required to keep things concise and to the point. Many times this "obfuscation" is really just necessity.

anigbrowl 12y ago
'halt' would work just as well as 'kill' but the latter sounds cooler. It's OK to use jargon within a professional context, but using it without regard to one's audience is generally obfuscatory.
- Mandelbug 12y ago
  The latter isn't used because it sounds cooler, it is literally rooted in the "kill" command on UNIX systems of old. The kill command is still used today, but can be used to send signals to running applications aside from "please exit immediately". If you want to get really nitpicky, halt isn't as absolute and precise as kill. Halt can mean that the app's activity is simply paused, but its resources are still held and it can in the future be resumed from its original position. Kill very much and in no uncertain terms means to immediately terminate the execution of an application without further processing of the current task. They really aren't interchangeable terms. If you are talking about interchangeability to an end-user who doesn't have such knowledge, I would argue even then some users may understand the different between not using an app and actually terminating it. Such as halting a video vs closing the window. If you are looking for analogies of proof of understanding, people say to "kill the engine" or other mechanical devices. So again, the term "kill" used in reference to terminating things isn't that weird. The individual who was surprised to hear of killing an app could have been surprised for a variety of reasons, but not in such a way that I think "halt" should be used over kill.
- Terr_ 12y ago
  "Halt" isn't strong enough. You aren't just making it pause wherever it happens to be, you are getting rid of it.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    Halt used to mean absolute termination rather than a pause, as in The Halting Problem. This was still used as the canonical term in UK computer terminology when I was growing up, but it may be different elsewhere.
    - arethuza 12y ago
      Isn't "absolute termination" the Unix meaning of "halt" as well?
      - anigbrowl 12y ago
        I thought so but others seem to disagree.
        Terr_ 12y ago
        I don't disagree about its technical meaning, but this entire debate is about what it OUGHT to be so that NON-technical people have an easier time. In that respect, "kill" is probably better, since it accurately conveys common ideas like "irreversible" and "messy".

lostcolony 12y ago

This is kind of the key to communication; knowing your audience, and tailoring your communication to them. Too often we attempt to explain jargon once, which the audience still doesn't follow, and then we blithely continue using it. Or worse, acronyms; we think it's sufficient to expand them once and we're done (rather than explain it, and then use something the reader will actually remember in every case). It's a skill to recognize what level of understanding your audience has, and to be able to explain yourself to their level. We forget either that our audience isn't (whatever), or we forget that the point isn't to turn our audience into (whatever), in fact, that our audience may care nothing about (whatever) -except for the particular bit we're trying to communicate-; we need to use our position as (whatever) to explain a concept in a way that is understandable from the audience's perspective as it is. That's why analogy is often used, for better or ill.

cmollis 12y ago

Every time u implement someone else's API you fall Into the same trap.

sn41 12y ago

It is even worse when you cross cultural barriers. I was recently in a discussion where a guy from an unnamed company in India has decided to change "Sign Up" in one of their services to "Join" just because in India the first does not immediately suggest a user what to do. There's also the perennial complaint that sporting analogies and slang make no sense across countries - G. H. Hardy's cricketing analogies and an American professor's baseball or NFL insights are gibberish on the other side of the Atlantic.