12 ms·

For Coconut Waters, a Street Fight for Shelf Space

55 points by neilc 12y ago

Nux 12y ago
Wonder where the heck they're growing so many coconut trees to fill the supermarkets of the western world with.
- wldlyinaccurate 12y ago
  Coconuts are already being produced in vast quantities (60+ million tonnes[1]) for their meat and oil. I imagine the coconut water manufacturers are just using the water which would otherwise be thrown away, which is why the coconut water market has been able to grow so rapidly without increasing global coconut production. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut#Cultivation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut#Cultivation
  - galago 12y ago
    I think in a lot of environments, it was fed to animals. So, its kind of brilliant to repackage it for humans to eat directly.
  - JetSpiegel 12y ago
    Eheheh, coconut meat.
  - JustinJBM 12y ago
    Not necessarily true. The coconuts used for oil and meat are picked much later than the coconuts used for water. Of course that's only the case if you're talking about pure coconut water -- coconut brands who use concentrate are probably making the concentrate from the mature coconuts that are used for their meat and oil. gross stuff.
- bsilvereagle 12y ago
  > “Part of it was the idea that the developing world needs as many alternative exports as possible,” he said. “And 85 countries around the world were growing coconuts."
- mturmon 12y ago
  You were downvoted, but I think this is an excellent question, especially about faddish products, and especially when they are a staple of LDCs. It's easy for the spike in demand to have bad environmental consequences (e.g., biodiesel, Fiji water), or economic consequences for people who depend on the crop as a staple (e.g., quinoa). And this would certainly be a factor in whether I will buy the product. But this doesn't seem to be the case (yet) with coconut water: http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/07/coconut-water-sports-drinks http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/07/coconut-water... I visited Kerala several years ago, and I have to say the life of a coconut farmer there seemed to have its advantages. They spent their days tending their carefully cultivated trees just a couple hundred meters from a beautiful coastline.
- pkaye 12y ago
  In the costal areas of India there are considerable amounts of coconut trees. Its not uncommon for a family with a moderate lot to have dozens of coconut trees.
- sanoli 12y ago
  What?? Look, coconut water is a new trend in the US, but not everywhere else where it's been consumed for quite a long time. Here in Brazil I've been drinking it (me and everybody else) since I was a kid, and it was just like having a soda or some OJ (actually the two came after the coconut), and Brazil doesn't come close to how much the Philippines and Indonesia produce, and we're the fifth largest producer. There's plenty of coconut water to go to the US. P.S. We also drink a lot of sugar cane juice here, with ice and a bit of lime squeezed in it. I like it even better. Maybe it will be a fad in some 5 or 10 years, though it's sugar content is (obviously) quite high, and I don't think it keeps as well as coconut water. Give it a try if you're ever in Little Havana in FL.
  - louhike 12y ago
    I've spent some time in India and it is the same upthere. you can get a fresh coconut to drink its juice almost everywhere. It is less common to find cane juice as it requires a machine to crush the cane.
  - Nux 12y ago
    I know it's an old habit in some countries, but when something becomes a fad in the West it tends to get ugly, at least when it comes to waste. My fear is that this will contribute to deforestation even more and for what (except for making some people rich). Also supporting hundreds of millions of sales and preserving the same quality is a problem; as someone noted the stuff they sell here it's ridden with sugar and preservatives. I'm sure it's not as tasty and healthy as your grandma's backyard stuff.
- recalibrator 12y ago
  Who are these pathological downvoters on HN? I wish there was a way to out them. Many just need a hug and some emotional counselling.
wiseleo 12y ago
There are at least 5 brands of coconut water at my local Walgreens in San Francisco. One of them is half the price of all others, but it's overall a premium drink. Having tasted just about all of them, I prefer Zico. It seems they did sell too early.
- jrockway 12y ago
  Did they sell too early? It seems like the way to tell is to figure out what the founders and early-stage investors got out of the buyout. If they never have to work again, they sold at exactly the right time. If they do still have to work, then yeah, oops.
badman_ting 12y ago
The first time I went to Mexico, I was excited to get a fresh coconut, a hole cut in the top with a machete and a straw inserted. It was much less refreshing than I expected, so I don't understand this trend.
- pkaye 12y ago
  There is a large variability in the water for fresh coconut. You have to pick it at the right point.
- sanoli 12y ago
  Sometimes the coconut is not at the right point, so the water will no only not taste as sweet, but will also have an unusual taste, even bitter sometimes. Even though he shouldn't, the guy will still sell it to you, though.
- ryannevius 12y ago
  I lived in Vietnam for about a year. On many major street corners, you could usually find someone selling coconuts. The vendor would pick up a fresh one, chop the top off with a machete, and insert a straw + spoon. While the quality varied, more often than not they were good. That said, it's definitely not a taste everyone will enjoy. I've been back in the states since June. The coconut juice/drinks sold in the stores taste nothing like actual coconut juice. I'm not sure people would go as crazy over the real thing...but who knows.
- johnward 12y ago
  Same thing. I find coconut water, even directly from the coconut, to be absolutely disgusting and almost vomit inducing.
- tremendo 12y ago
  Did you by any chance try it while on port/coastal/tropical town? I know not everybody likes it, but having grown up eating and drinking coconuts I love the stuff. And yes, the packaged water found in grocery stores here (U.S.) is not quite the same, but I do buy one by 365 (Whole Foods brand?) which is cheaper and IMO better that the alternatives found here.
beloch 12y ago
My local supermarket sells young coconuts for about half the price of a can of coconut water and, I assure you, I'm about as far from where coconuts grow as you can get on this planet! The stuff is seriously overpriced at present. Also, most brands have sugar added, which makes the stuff sickly sweet. I can see how that's necessary to make inroads into the soft-drink market, but healthy it is not!
goldenkey 12y ago
I have no stake in coconut water but I've tried them all. Here's my breakdown: Goya and those other cheap canned brands usually have sugar added and are heavily pasteurized to preserve. Out of O.N.E, Vita, and Zico, O.N.E. is the best. Often times Vita has the sour potassium taste from overaging, and Zico is somewhat bland. Now, here's the deal breaker, all of the above coconut waters are total trash compared to RAW coconut water. When coconut water is heated, it destroys the delicious taste. Coconut water naturally should look glowing pink. There are two brands of raw coconut water. Copra and Harmless Harvest. I couldn't put my finger on it but Harmless Harvest had a slightly weird aftertaste. ( I bought a case so it wasn't just a mishap with a single carton.) Copra consistently delivered and I found myself drinking way too many because they're so tasty. Until you try Copra or indigenous fresh Thai coconut water you're missing out. And I know this sounds like an ad, but I seriously have tried every coconut water and I'm just spreading the information. Cheers
- mundizzle 12y ago
  thanks for the tips! i've also sampled all the coconut waters i can find. 2 things i've come to notice... - coconut water from thailand has a better (sweeter?) taste than from brazil. - drinking out of steel/aluminum vs plastic containers somehow makes a difference. that could just be in my head though. Amy & Brian's is the brand i get around here that satisfies my criteria. will have to checkout the raw stuff though :)
  - goldenkey 12y ago
    Perhaps that's also why the raw ones tasted sweeter and better, they were both from Thailand. I know glass is the most inert but it doesn't seem like any of the brands sell glass bottles - pretty sure plastic would be the next best. Yeah, definitely try the raw when you can, I can't believe how awful the non-raw stuff taste in comparison - it's eye opening
    - rdtsc 12y ago
      Some "ethnic" (ex. Asian) stores will sell small glass bottles of it (they look like miniature coca cola bottles), sometimes the come in with chunks of coconut. Not sure how fresh/healthy/pasteurized/sweetened they are but I seem to like those best out of the ones I tried. Can't even tell you the brand. There were two that had the same packaging and one tasted better. And yes, it was sweeter.
andrewfong 12y ago
"Today, he’s not just nostalgic for the old days of the coconut water wars. He wishes that Zico was still a serious threat. He wants a competitor, throwing elbows, playing Monster to his Red Bull, a melee that goosed energy-drink consumption to new highs." This. A lot of startup founders (myself included) freak out when we find someone else doing the exact same thing we are. But competition can also be great for kicking your butt into action and working to expand the market.
kimonos 12y ago
I love coconut water!
enupten 12y ago
I wish someone imported Coconut water from India; the Thai ones are just so awful (or is this because of all the poking that they do to it ?).
asah 12y ago
My startup is smack in the middle of this because we deliver snacks and beverages to silicon valley companies and buy direct from manufacturers (bbf.io/snacks) - indeed, there are crazy battles far beyond vita coco and zico, including easily a half dozen others, all offering deals. Copra and Harmless indeed are awesome, but they're also 2-3x the cost, which is prohibitive for most people. They also have very short shelf-life, which makes it hard to scale. Shelf-stable coconut waters last 6+ months. Coconut water isn't half as competitive as energy and protein bars. I have stories...
dheer01 12y ago
Or get fresh coconuts delivered to your place - 2 for a dollar - Bangalore.
contingencies 12y ago
On the same subject, earlier today as a pet project I decided to break out a new page on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superfoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superfoods Dandelion leaves, anyone?

55 points by neilc 12y ago

Nux 12y ago

Wonder where the heck they're growing so many coconut trees to fill the supermarkets of the western world with.

wldlyinaccurate 12y ago
Coconuts are already being produced in vast quantities (60+ million tonnes[1]) for their meat and oil. I imagine the coconut water manufacturers are just using the water which would otherwise be thrown away, which is why the coconut water market has been able to grow so rapidly without increasing global coconut production. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut#Cultivation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut#Cultivation
- galago 12y ago
  I think in a lot of environments, it was fed to animals. So, its kind of brilliant to repackage it for humans to eat directly.
- JetSpiegel 12y ago
  Eheheh, coconut meat.
- JustinJBM 12y ago
  Not necessarily true. The coconuts used for oil and meat are picked much later than the coconuts used for water. Of course that's only the case if you're talking about pure coconut water -- coconut brands who use concentrate are probably making the concentrate from the mature coconuts that are used for their meat and oil. gross stuff.
bsilvereagle 12y ago
> “Part of it was the idea that the developing world needs as many alternative exports as possible,” he said. “And 85 countries around the world were growing coconuts."
mturmon 12y ago
You were downvoted, but I think this is an excellent question, especially about faddish products, and especially when they are a staple of LDCs. It's easy for the spike in demand to have bad environmental consequences (e.g., biodiesel, Fiji water), or economic consequences for people who depend on the crop as a staple (e.g., quinoa). And this would certainly be a factor in whether I will buy the product. But this doesn't seem to be the case (yet) with coconut water: http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/07/coconut-water-sports-drinks http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/07/coconut-water... I visited Kerala several years ago, and I have to say the life of a coconut farmer there seemed to have its advantages. They spent their days tending their carefully cultivated trees just a couple hundred meters from a beautiful coastline.
pkaye 12y ago
In the costal areas of India there are considerable amounts of coconut trees. Its not uncommon for a family with a moderate lot to have dozens of coconut trees.
sanoli 12y ago
What?? Look, coconut water is a new trend in the US, but not everywhere else where it's been consumed for quite a long time. Here in Brazil I've been drinking it (me and everybody else) since I was a kid, and it was just like having a soda or some OJ (actually the two came after the coconut), and Brazil doesn't come close to how much the Philippines and Indonesia produce, and we're the fifth largest producer. There's plenty of coconut water to go to the US. P.S. We also drink a lot of sugar cane juice here, with ice and a bit of lime squeezed in it. I like it even better. Maybe it will be a fad in some 5 or 10 years, though it's sugar content is (obviously) quite high, and I don't think it keeps as well as coconut water. Give it a try if you're ever in Little Havana in FL.
- louhike 12y ago
  I've spent some time in India and it is the same upthere. you can get a fresh coconut to drink its juice almost everywhere. It is less common to find cane juice as it requires a machine to crush the cane.
- Nux 12y ago
  I know it's an old habit in some countries, but when something becomes a fad in the West it tends to get ugly, at least when it comes to waste. My fear is that this will contribute to deforestation even more and for what (except for making some people rich). Also supporting hundreds of millions of sales and preserving the same quality is a problem; as someone noted the stuff they sell here it's ridden with sugar and preservatives. I'm sure it's not as tasty and healthy as your grandma's backyard stuff.
recalibrator 12y ago
Who are these pathological downvoters on HN? I wish there was a way to out them. Many just need a hug and some emotional counselling.

wiseleo 12y ago

There are at least 5 brands of coconut water at my local Walgreens in San Francisco. One of them is half the price of all others, but it's overall a premium drink. Having tasted just about all of them, I prefer Zico. It seems they did sell too early.

jrockway 12y ago
Did they sell too early? It seems like the way to tell is to figure out what the founders and early-stage investors got out of the buyout. If they never have to work again, they sold at exactly the right time. If they do still have to work, then yeah, oops.

badman_ting 12y ago

The first time I went to Mexico, I was excited to get a fresh coconut, a hole cut in the top with a machete and a straw inserted. It was much less refreshing than I expected, so I don't understand this trend.

pkaye 12y ago
There is a large variability in the water for fresh coconut. You have to pick it at the right point.
sanoli 12y ago
Sometimes the coconut is not at the right point, so the water will no only not taste as sweet, but will also have an unusual taste, even bitter sometimes. Even though he shouldn't, the guy will still sell it to you, though.
ryannevius 12y ago
I lived in Vietnam for about a year. On many major street corners, you could usually find someone selling coconuts. The vendor would pick up a fresh one, chop the top off with a machete, and insert a straw + spoon. While the quality varied, more often than not they were good. That said, it's definitely not a taste everyone will enjoy. I've been back in the states since June. The coconut juice/drinks sold in the stores taste nothing like actual coconut juice. I'm not sure people would go as crazy over the real thing...but who knows.
johnward 12y ago
Same thing. I find coconut water, even directly from the coconut, to be absolutely disgusting and almost vomit inducing.
tremendo 12y ago
Did you by any chance try it while on port/coastal/tropical town? I know not everybody likes it, but having grown up eating and drinking coconuts I love the stuff. And yes, the packaged water found in grocery stores here (U.S.) is not quite the same, but I do buy one by 365 (Whole Foods brand?) which is cheaper and IMO better that the alternatives found here.

beloch 12y ago

My local supermarket sells young coconuts for about half the price of a can of coconut water and, I assure you, I'm about as far from where coconuts grow as you can get on this planet! The stuff is seriously overpriced at present. Also, most brands have sugar added, which makes the stuff sickly sweet. I can see how that's necessary to make inroads into the soft-drink market, but healthy it is not!

goldenkey 12y ago

I have no stake in coconut water but I've tried them all. Here's my breakdown: Goya and those other cheap canned brands usually have sugar added and are heavily pasteurized to preserve. Out of O.N.E, Vita, and Zico, O.N.E. is the best. Often times Vita has the sour potassium taste from overaging, and Zico is somewhat bland. Now, here's the deal breaker, all of the above coconut waters are total trash compared to RAW coconut water. When coconut water is heated, it destroys the delicious taste. Coconut water naturally should look glowing pink. There are two brands of raw coconut water. Copra and Harmless Harvest. I couldn't put my finger on it but Harmless Harvest had a slightly weird aftertaste. ( I bought a case so it wasn't just a mishap with a single carton.) Copra consistently delivered and I found myself drinking way too many because they're so tasty. Until you try Copra or indigenous fresh Thai coconut water you're missing out. And I know this sounds like an ad, but I seriously have tried every coconut water and I'm just spreading the information. Cheers

mundizzle 12y ago
thanks for the tips! i've also sampled all the coconut waters i can find. 2 things i've come to notice... - coconut water from thailand has a better (sweeter?) taste than from brazil. - drinking out of steel/aluminum vs plastic containers somehow makes a difference. that could just be in my head though. Amy & Brian's is the brand i get around here that satisfies my criteria. will have to checkout the raw stuff though :)
- goldenkey 12y ago
  Perhaps that's also why the raw ones tasted sweeter and better, they were both from Thailand. I know glass is the most inert but it doesn't seem like any of the brands sell glass bottles - pretty sure plastic would be the next best. Yeah, definitely try the raw when you can, I can't believe how awful the non-raw stuff taste in comparison - it's eye opening
  - rdtsc 12y ago
    Some "ethnic" (ex. Asian) stores will sell small glass bottles of it (they look like miniature coca cola bottles), sometimes the come in with chunks of coconut. Not sure how fresh/healthy/pasteurized/sweetened they are but I seem to like those best out of the ones I tried. Can't even tell you the brand. There were two that had the same packaging and one tasted better. And yes, it was sweeter.

andrewfong 12y ago

"Today, he’s not just nostalgic for the old days of the coconut water wars. He wishes that Zico was still a serious threat. He wants a competitor, throwing elbows, playing Monster to his Red Bull, a melee that goosed energy-drink consumption to new highs." This. A lot of startup founders (myself included) freak out when we find someone else doing the exact same thing we are. But competition can also be great for kicking your butt into action and working to expand the market.

kimonos 12y ago

I love coconut water!

enupten 12y ago

I wish someone imported Coconut water from India; the Thai ones are just so awful (or is this because of all the poking that they do to it ?).

asah 12y ago

My startup is smack in the middle of this because we deliver snacks and beverages to silicon valley companies and buy direct from manufacturers (bbf.io/snacks) - indeed, there are crazy battles far beyond vita coco and zico, including easily a half dozen others, all offering deals. Copra and Harmless indeed are awesome, but they're also 2-3x the cost, which is prohibitive for most people. They also have very short shelf-life, which makes it hard to scale. Shelf-stable coconut waters last 6+ months. Coconut water isn't half as competitive as energy and protein bars. I have stories...

dheer01 12y ago

Or get fresh coconuts delivered to your place - 2 for a dollar - Bangalore.

contingencies 12y ago

On the same subject, earlier today as a pet project I decided to break out a new page on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superfoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superfoods Dandelion leaves, anyone?