8 ms·

That video explanation made no sense to me. Basically the "interface" presented to the drivers has not changed, so why would drivers deviate from how they curre

That video explanation made no sense to me. Basically the "interface" presented to the drivers has not changed, so why would drivers deviate from how they currently merge? Because the government said so? I don't see this working. However there are two solutions that could promote zipper merging: (1) Force both lanes to the center before moving that center lane to the side that is available ahead: ____________________________________________ \________/ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ________ ____________/ ______________________/_____________________ (2) Present a long-barrier between both lanes well before the merge that only permit late merging, so that those in the continuing lane feel morally obligated to let those queued up in. ____________________________________________ _ _ _ _____________ ____________________ / ______________________/_____________________

thirdstation 12y ago
Option 2 physically walls off the Late Mergers in addition to mentally (in the minds of the Free Laners), making them easier to ignore. I like option 1 because it forces everyone to move.
- joezydeco 12y ago
  Yeah, option 2 would lead to someone hestitating/stopping in that lower lane. Then that whole lane is stopped because the front driver is too afraid to merge into moving traffic, and the moving traffic is going too fast to stop and let a lower lane driver in.
Negitivefrags 12y ago
In New Zealand we just have signs like this all over the place: http://i.imgur.com/AtaDOGX.jpg http://i.imgur.com/AtaDOGX.jpg
- joelcollinsdc 12y ago
  Its pedantic, but I think this is sublty different than what is being dicussed here. All over the US, there are situations where 2 lanes converge to 1 and drivers "take turns" merging. But I think the scenario that is being discussed is a little different, where there is 1 "working" lane and one "closed" lane, the thought process of drivers in the lane that they know is 'closed' up ahead is to merge early. I wonder if cultures where queueing (like, in the grocery store) is not as common as in the US have this problem? I suspect not.
  - Negitivefrags 12y ago
    We have temporary merge like a zip signs as well for road works, I just didn't see one on Google Image Search. They only tend to put those out for fairly large multi-week road works I've noticed though.
  - JeanMertz 12y ago
    I live in the Netherlands, but drive through Belgium when driving home from work. There is one area where a permanent two-lane road merges into a single lane. The funny thing is that (mostly) Belgians never use the second (left) lane that eventually merges into the single right lane. This always seems stupid to me, because it increases the length of the traffic jam so much, that the traffic jam goes all the way over a roundabout, causing stops for all drivers, even the ones not going in the same direction as us. The worst thing is, whenever I use the left lane - which I do all the time (and in return, pass 60 cars waiting in line), people sometimes get so angry that I've had two trucks in the past few months hitting the gas and blocking the left lane so no one can pass anymore. Crazy people... Last month a new sign was installed along the road "Please use both lanes, drive all the way to the front and THEN start merging". Even now, people still choose to wait in line at the right lane. It is as if people feel guilty when they see a whole lane being empty and available to drive on.
    - vrikis 12y ago
      This is what it's like in Scotland!! People here get SO angry, thinking that you have "skipped" all the other patiently waiting people... And then they don't let you merge! And it makes absolutely no sense to me, because they cause one reallllyyyy long traffic jam then...
- coryking 12y ago
  The two lanes in the picture merge into one "center" lane. I've never seen that here in the states. Typically it is one lane merging into another lane. I'd wager the "merge into the shared center lane" makes the zipper protocol more obvious.
  - mkl 12y ago
    I think you misinterpreted the picture - the left lane ends and merges with the right, as when joining a motorway (we drive on the left). You can see the real thing in the photo above the closest two cars. The zip system is used ubiquitously here - I didn't even know there were other systems, so I was curious to see what new thing the article was about. From what I understood, the alternative is not really a "system"?
peeters 12y ago
I like the idea of #1. But it seems from my experience in the U.S. and Canada, that there is a tendency towards unambiguous right-of-way. That tends to rule out collaborative scenarios where there's no clear "winner" when two cars are competing for the same resource. Which is a shame, because making this collaborative is exactly what will change the mentality (i.e. you can't ignore the drivers trying to merge, because you're trying to merge too). Even with zipper merging the right-of-way is going to be on the person who is staying in their own lane. I'm not sure if my experience is regional, or even imagined, nor do I know the reason...I'd imagine it makes assigning blame in an accident much easier, but that's a really crappy basis for traffic rules.
nardi 12y ago
Option 1 leads to "no, after you" behavior, steers two cars directly at each other, and probably would be a disaster.
- peeters 12y ago
  Speaking about educating drivers, I wish we could just kill that mentality once and for all. It drives me crazy when someone obviously beats me to a stop sign, then waves me through as though they're doing me a favor. No my friend, you're just making it slower for both of us by not following the established rules of the road. Thankfully my city is replacing as many stop signs as possible with traffic circles, where you'd have to be a complete idiot to yield to someone who got there after you.
  - dubfan 12y ago
    > Thankfully my city is replacing as many stop signs as possible with traffic circles, where you'd have to be a complete idiot to yield to someone who got there after you. In Seattle, we have traffic circles in many of our residential neighborhoods. People still do this here. Another common thing is people taking lefts by just driving on the left side of the circle (I've had people honk at me for taking lefts the correct way)
    - ericcumbee 12y ago
      we have a couple around here near campus. The problem is shockingly few people know how to behave in a traffic circle.
      - chrisseaton 12y ago
        "few people know how to behave in a traffic circle" Tell them this: imagine a big circular road. Then imagine other roads joining it with T junctions. Then imagine the road is one-way. Finally just shrink the road in your head. That's all it is!
        12y ago
neeleshs 12y ago
#1 is what happens in Fremont,CA when cops are running a DUI check, works fairly well.
neeleshs 12y ago
#1 is what happens in Fremont,CA when cops are running a DUI check, works fairly well.
awj 12y ago
> so that those in the continuing lane feel morally obligated to let those queued up in. I'm pretty well convinced that we'd never hit critical mass of drivers that feel morally obligated to even moderately inconvenience themselves to benefit the merging of others. That merge pattern is a recipe for stalled traffic in the right hand lane. First one seems workable, though.
bbarn 12y ago
Option 1 sounds great in theory, but given that most merges are the result of temporary lane closures, completely impractical (since road work usually goes one lane at a time)
- mbrameld 12y ago
  How is it any more impractical than how temporary lane closures are currently done? It can still be done with cones or barrels and the end result is exactly the same.
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    The point is, suppose they are repaving the road one lane at a time. (Or, repaving half of a 2-lane road)
    - mpyne 12y ago
      You simply move up the half-merge of each lane to suit. It's rather clearly explained in the diagram, where you can see it does end in one and only one lane actively in use. You'd do the "merge half of each lane" part while the road still supports two lanes, just as you already have to account for with current temporary traffic control devices.
      - sliverstorm 12y ago
        Ah. I see; I am not a very good ASCII art interpreter, is the problem.
morsch 12y ago
Good thinking. Apparently your option 2 was implemented (and considered an innovation) around where I live. Here's a picture from 2007: http://www.strassen.nrw.de/_down/pi-070322-03.jpg http://www.strassen.nrw.de/_down/pi-070322-03.jpg I don't know if they're still doing it. (Late merging has long been the default in Europe and is taught in driver's ed. However people seem to do it more reliably when reminded of the practice.)
- wfjackson 12y ago
  I wonder if there's an option 3, install a mobile traffic light that allows one lane only at one time, in sequences of one minute or so each, i.e Alternating red and green lights, so that there is no need for merging. This way there's no slowdown caused by the merging, I feel that this method may actually make it faster overall. ____________________________________________ Green _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____________________ Red / ______________________/_____________________ ____________________________________________ Red _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____________________ Green / ______________________/_____________________
  - malandrew 12y ago
    Temporary traffic lights is definitely an interesting idea. It would however require a long barrier, otherwise, what is to stop people at the end of the stopped lane from trying to merge into the moving lane. Another idea is a temporary speed bump in the lane that is not ending.
  - blahedo 12y ago
    Except that red means "stop", so presumably that whole "you don't have to stop" thing wouldn't work.
  - S_A_P 12y ago
    I was driving in Atlanta a few weeks ago and was in a situation where two two lane roads converged to a single two lane road. Each side had this exact thing and it actually worked really well. Not the same as a construction zone but I think would be a helpful tool.
greenyouse 12y ago
Hey, I'm from Minnesota. Here is a merge spot that I take pretty often: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.008271,-93.203054,3a,75y,63.17h,70.4t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szEeM_f0WDzr9WEdRJasxCA!2e0?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@45.008271,-93.203054,3a,75y,63.... Unfortunately, this spot still has lots of early merging. Some high traffic areas have special lanes for zipper merging, but I think the emphasis is on changing drivers' habits through public service announcements rather than redoing the lane structure.
TheSoftwareGuy 12y ago
I like option one, but I don't think it works if there are more than two lanes
laacz 12y ago
To my understanding in intensive traffic it's more about uniform and predictable behaviour. First option will not improve since (at least in Europe) it just changes lane priority. In linked article's merge case priority traffic is in left lane, since right one merges. In your center merge case priority traffic is on the right (when doing simultaneous merges to center lane, one on the right has priority over the one on the left). So it probably won't change anything. Barrier option is much better, but it has challanges and restrictions of their own. Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention that over here in Latvia I see people starting to respect zip merging. It's all in our head. Not because government said, but because everybody follows simple rule and everybody gets home faster and with less stress :)
allworknoplay 12y ago
Yes! #1 is what I was thinking too. Remove the dominance/subordination from the merging and it's obvious what one is supposed to do -- zipper right in one at a time.

thirdstation 12y ago

Option 2 physically walls off the Late Mergers in addition to mentally (in the minds of the Free Laners), making them easier to ignore. I like option 1 because it forces everyone to move.

joezydeco 12y ago
Yeah, option 2 would lead to someone hestitating/stopping in that lower lane. Then that whole lane is stopped because the front driver is too afraid to merge into moving traffic, and the moving traffic is going too fast to stop and let a lower lane driver in.

Negitivefrags 12y ago

In New Zealand we just have signs like this all over the place: http://i.imgur.com/AtaDOGX.jpg http://i.imgur.com/AtaDOGX.jpg

joelcollinsdc 12y ago
Its pedantic, but I think this is sublty different than what is being dicussed here. All over the US, there are situations where 2 lanes converge to 1 and drivers "take turns" merging. But I think the scenario that is being discussed is a little different, where there is 1 "working" lane and one "closed" lane, the thought process of drivers in the lane that they know is 'closed' up ahead is to merge early. I wonder if cultures where queueing (like, in the grocery store) is not as common as in the US have this problem? I suspect not.
- Negitivefrags 12y ago
  We have temporary merge like a zip signs as well for road works, I just didn't see one on Google Image Search. They only tend to put those out for fairly large multi-week road works I've noticed though.
- JeanMertz 12y ago
  I live in the Netherlands, but drive through Belgium when driving home from work. There is one area where a permanent two-lane road merges into a single lane. The funny thing is that (mostly) Belgians never use the second (left) lane that eventually merges into the single right lane. This always seems stupid to me, because it increases the length of the traffic jam so much, that the traffic jam goes all the way over a roundabout, causing stops for all drivers, even the ones not going in the same direction as us. The worst thing is, whenever I use the left lane - which I do all the time (and in return, pass 60 cars waiting in line), people sometimes get so angry that I've had two trucks in the past few months hitting the gas and blocking the left lane so no one can pass anymore. Crazy people... Last month a new sign was installed along the road "Please use both lanes, drive all the way to the front and THEN start merging". Even now, people still choose to wait in line at the right lane. It is as if people feel guilty when they see a whole lane being empty and available to drive on.
  - vrikis 12y ago
    This is what it's like in Scotland!! People here get SO angry, thinking that you have "skipped" all the other patiently waiting people... And then they don't let you merge! And it makes absolutely no sense to me, because they cause one reallllyyyy long traffic jam then...
coryking 12y ago
The two lanes in the picture merge into one "center" lane. I've never seen that here in the states. Typically it is one lane merging into another lane. I'd wager the "merge into the shared center lane" makes the zipper protocol more obvious.
- mkl 12y ago
  I think you misinterpreted the picture - the left lane ends and merges with the right, as when joining a motorway (we drive on the left). You can see the real thing in the photo above the closest two cars. The zip system is used ubiquitously here - I didn't even know there were other systems, so I was curious to see what new thing the article was about. From what I understood, the alternative is not really a "system"?

peeters 12y ago

I like the idea of #1. But it seems from my experience in the U.S. and Canada, that there is a tendency towards unambiguous right-of-way. That tends to rule out collaborative scenarios where there's no clear "winner" when two cars are competing for the same resource. Which is a shame, because making this collaborative is exactly what will change the mentality (i.e. you can't ignore the drivers trying to merge, because you're trying to merge too). Even with zipper merging the right-of-way is going to be on the person who is staying in their own lane. I'm not sure if my experience is regional, or even imagined, nor do I know the reason...I'd imagine it makes assigning blame in an accident much easier, but that's a really crappy basis for traffic rules.

nardi 12y ago

Option 1 leads to "no, after you" behavior, steers two cars directly at each other, and probably would be a disaster.

peeters 12y ago
Speaking about educating drivers, I wish we could just kill that mentality once and for all. It drives me crazy when someone obviously beats me to a stop sign, then waves me through as though they're doing me a favor. No my friend, you're just making it slower for both of us by not following the established rules of the road. Thankfully my city is replacing as many stop signs as possible with traffic circles, where you'd have to be a complete idiot to yield to someone who got there after you.
- dubfan 12y ago
  > Thankfully my city is replacing as many stop signs as possible with traffic circles, where you'd have to be a complete idiot to yield to someone who got there after you. In Seattle, we have traffic circles in many of our residential neighborhoods. People still do this here. Another common thing is people taking lefts by just driving on the left side of the circle (I've had people honk at me for taking lefts the correct way)
  - ericcumbee 12y ago
    we have a couple around here near campus. The problem is shockingly few people know how to behave in a traffic circle.
    - chrisseaton 12y ago
      "few people know how to behave in a traffic circle" Tell them this: imagine a big circular road. Then imagine other roads joining it with T junctions. Then imagine the road is one-way. Finally just shrink the road in your head. That's all it is!
      - 12y ago

neeleshs 12y ago

#1 is what happens in Fremont,CA when cops are running a DUI check, works fairly well.

neeleshs 12y ago

#1 is what happens in Fremont,CA when cops are running a DUI check, works fairly well.

awj 12y ago

> so that those in the continuing lane feel morally obligated to let those queued up in. I'm pretty well convinced that we'd never hit critical mass of drivers that feel morally obligated to even moderately inconvenience themselves to benefit the merging of others. That merge pattern is a recipe for stalled traffic in the right hand lane. First one seems workable, though.

bbarn 12y ago

Option 1 sounds great in theory, but given that most merges are the result of temporary lane closures, completely impractical (since road work usually goes one lane at a time)

mbrameld 12y ago
How is it any more impractical than how temporary lane closures are currently done? It can still be done with cones or barrels and the end result is exactly the same.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  The point is, suppose they are repaving the road one lane at a time. (Or, repaving half of a 2-lane road)
  - mpyne 12y ago
    You simply move up the half-merge of each lane to suit. It's rather clearly explained in the diagram, where you can see it does end in one and only one lane actively in use. You'd do the "merge half of each lane" part while the road still supports two lanes, just as you already have to account for with current temporary traffic control devices.
    - sliverstorm 12y ago
      Ah. I see; I am not a very good ASCII art interpreter, is the problem.

morsch 12y ago

Good thinking. Apparently your option 2 was implemented (and considered an innovation) around where I live. Here's a picture from 2007: http://www.strassen.nrw.de/_down/pi-070322-03.jpg http://www.strassen.nrw.de/_down/pi-070322-03.jpg I don't know if they're still doing it. (Late merging has long been the default in Europe and is taught in driver's ed. However people seem to do it more reliably when reminded of the practice.)

wfjackson 12y ago
I wonder if there's an option 3, install a mobile traffic light that allows one lane only at one time, in sequences of one minute or so each, i.e Alternating red and green lights, so that there is no need for merging. This way there's no slowdown caused by the merging, I feel that this method may actually make it faster overall. ____________________________________________ Green _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____________________ Red / ______________________/_____________________ ____________________________________________ Red _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____________________ Green / ______________________/_____________________
- malandrew 12y ago
  Temporary traffic lights is definitely an interesting idea. It would however require a long barrier, otherwise, what is to stop people at the end of the stopped lane from trying to merge into the moving lane. Another idea is a temporary speed bump in the lane that is not ending.
- blahedo 12y ago
  Except that red means "stop", so presumably that whole "you don't have to stop" thing wouldn't work.
- S_A_P 12y ago
  I was driving in Atlanta a few weeks ago and was in a situation where two two lane roads converged to a single two lane road. Each side had this exact thing and it actually worked really well. Not the same as a construction zone but I think would be a helpful tool.

greenyouse 12y ago

Hey, I'm from Minnesota. Here is a merge spot that I take pretty often: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.008271,-93.203054,3a,75y,63.17h,70.4t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szEeM_f0WDzr9WEdRJasxCA!2e0?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@45.008271,-93.203054,3a,75y,63.... Unfortunately, this spot still has lots of early merging. Some high traffic areas have special lanes for zipper merging, but I think the emphasis is on changing drivers' habits through public service announcements rather than redoing the lane structure.

TheSoftwareGuy 12y ago

I like option one, but I don't think it works if there are more than two lanes

laacz 12y ago

To my understanding in intensive traffic it's more about uniform and predictable behaviour. First option will not improve since (at least in Europe) it just changes lane priority. In linked article's merge case priority traffic is in left lane, since right one merges. In your center merge case priority traffic is on the right (when doing simultaneous merges to center lane, one on the right has priority over the one on the left). So it probably won't change anything. Barrier option is much better, but it has challanges and restrictions of their own. Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention that over here in Latvia I see people starting to respect zip merging. It's all in our head. Not because government said, but because everybody follows simple rule and everybody gets home faster and with less stress :)

allworknoplay 12y ago

Yes! #1 is what I was thinking too. Remove the dominance/subordination from the merging and it's obvious what one is supposed to do -- zipper right in one at a time.