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What. How is this even remotely acceptable? If discovered it destroys your credibility. Among your employees it destroys your credibility. If I was an employee

What. How is this even remotely acceptable? If discovered it destroys your credibility. Among your employees it destroys your credibility. If I was an employee and found out that this was happening, I'd be extremely upset. I wouldn't trust a thing you say. If you'll lie to customers, you'll lie to me. Your optimism is endearing, but the vast majority of companies I've done business with do this. Often companies I've worked for have, too – sales people are very happy to overstate the available features and capabilities of any product. From their perspective, a shoddy, rushed implementation to an unhappy client is still better than having them walk away from the purchase entirely.

skriticos2 12y ago
From my experience, big enterprise product company representatives like to do this: Question: Does your application has x, y and z feature and can be integrated in our process easily? Answer: Sure, all there. Just have to tweak a few settings in the GUI. Truth: We have a bare-bone product and a semi-documented API. Feel free to implement all the features you want and adapt it to your process. We can provide you professional services (for a price, of course).
MadManE 12y ago
This cannot be overstated. If you give the sales team any room or freedom, they will make your life hell trying to keep up with "features" that outdo everyone else just so they can get their commission check. They don't have to deal with anything beyond signing of the purchase, so they don't care that it sinks everyone else to get that purchase.
- otterley 12y ago
  Salespeople who sell products by providing false information are committing fraud on behalf of the company and should be fired.
  - UVB-76 12y ago
    This is just how things work in a lot of industries. You promise the world to make a sale, then once you've signed, work frantically to make the vision you sold a reality. If you were open and honest, you wouldn't sell a thing. The only people who lose out are those who take salespeople on their word and don't get everything agreed in writing. Never take a salesperson on their word.
    - otterley 12y ago
      > If you were open and honest, you wouldn't sell a thing. Or you could, you know, make stuff worth buying.
  - MadManE 12y ago
    I agree. But just because something should happen, doesn't mean that it will. I don't work with a startup, or even in the tech industry, but this is an issue that takes up ~25% of my time. I have to keep pushing back on sales to make sure that they're not selling something that's physically impossible, or just plain stupid (but sounds good). This is something that cuts across business in America in general, I think.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    That would result in mass unemployment in some sectors of industry. The problem is that as long as your competitor says 'yes' and you say 'no' the competitor will get the customer. Customers should be firing companies that provide false information during the lead-up to a sale. Then the sales people can stay employed and everybody comes out ahead.
    - otterley 12y ago
      > That would result in mass unemployment in some sectors of industry. Are you making an implicit suggestion that we should tolerate fraud because it employs people?
      - Dylan16807 12y ago
- raverbashing 12y ago
  You're absolutely right in this specific case. The sales people will go crazy, so don't let them sell anything. Have the technical people evaluate that.
  - MadManE 12y ago
    Let them sell what you already have. Why do they need to invent fake products to close a sale?
RogerL 12y ago
Other people lie, so lying is okay? You (not you the person I'm replying to, 'you' the company/sales person) that are taking money from somebody based on an untruth. It's outrageous, regardless of how often it happens. I have the right to know what I'm getting for my money. Don't lie to me, ever.
danielweber 12y ago
Since you are competing against people who will tell you that the feature they want already exists, people who are too honest in this area will quickly get filtered out of the marketplace. It sucks, but there are lots of markets where the customer says "please lie to me" and gives their business to the person with the most reassuring lie.
- tspike 12y ago
  This philosophy seems to imply that trust and relationships are worthless in business. If you perpetually promise features that don't exist, you'll eventually promise something that either can't be implemented at all or has to be implemented sloppily to deliver. How can you possibly sustain a long-term business when you're so willing to damage business relationships?
  - chaqke 12y ago
    Many startups don't become long-term businesses. However, the startup that (wins a big contract with a big promise && delivers on its promise) certainly has a larger chance to become a long-term business than the ones that short circuit themselves out by not winning contracts.
- billmalarky 12y ago
  On the flip side I'm sure you've heard the phrase "nothing gets done until someone sells something." There's a lot of cases where you are certain you can build what the customer needs, but you can't spend resources on it until you have a sale in hand.
- nostrademons 12y ago
  I don't think that's true. In my experience, the very best companies all refuse to do this. If you leak an upcoming Google feature or promise something to a customer that doesn't exist, you get fired. Same at Facebook and Apple, or Blizzard. I do think it's much more common in highly competitive markets with no barriers to entry. Google/Facebook/Apple have pretty strong moats and large diverse markets, and can afford to release products "when they're done" and not talk about them until then. People in very competitive, low-margin markets often need the sale now. But then, people in the latter type of markets quickly get filtered out of the marketplace regardless of what they do.
simonebrunozzi 12y ago
Unfortunately, this is true.

skriticos2 12y ago

From my experience, big enterprise product company representatives like to do this: Question: Does your application has x, y and z feature and can be integrated in our process easily? Answer: Sure, all there. Just have to tweak a few settings in the GUI. Truth: We have a bare-bone product and a semi-documented API. Feel free to implement all the features you want and adapt it to your process. We can provide you professional services (for a price, of course).

MadManE 12y ago

This cannot be overstated. If you give the sales team any room or freedom, they will make your life hell trying to keep up with "features" that outdo everyone else just so they can get their commission check. They don't have to deal with anything beyond signing of the purchase, so they don't care that it sinks everyone else to get that purchase.

otterley 12y ago
Salespeople who sell products by providing false information are committing fraud on behalf of the company and should be fired.
- UVB-76 12y ago
  This is just how things work in a lot of industries. You promise the world to make a sale, then once you've signed, work frantically to make the vision you sold a reality. If you were open and honest, you wouldn't sell a thing. The only people who lose out are those who take salespeople on their word and don't get everything agreed in writing. Never take a salesperson on their word.
  - otterley 12y ago
    > If you were open and honest, you wouldn't sell a thing. Or you could, you know, make stuff worth buying.
- MadManE 12y ago
  I agree. But just because something should happen, doesn't mean that it will. I don't work with a startup, or even in the tech industry, but this is an issue that takes up ~25% of my time. I have to keep pushing back on sales to make sure that they're not selling something that's physically impossible, or just plain stupid (but sounds good). This is something that cuts across business in America in general, I think.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  That would result in mass unemployment in some sectors of industry. The problem is that as long as your competitor says 'yes' and you say 'no' the competitor will get the customer. Customers should be firing companies that provide false information during the lead-up to a sale. Then the sales people can stay employed and everybody comes out ahead.
  - otterley 12y ago
    > That would result in mass unemployment in some sectors of industry. Are you making an implicit suggestion that we should tolerate fraud because it employs people?
    - Dylan16807 12y ago
raverbashing 12y ago
You're absolutely right in this specific case. The sales people will go crazy, so don't let them sell anything. Have the technical people evaluate that.
- MadManE 12y ago
  Let them sell what you already have. Why do they need to invent fake products to close a sale?

RogerL 12y ago

Other people lie, so lying is okay? You (not you the person I'm replying to, 'you' the company/sales person) that are taking money from somebody based on an untruth. It's outrageous, regardless of how often it happens. I have the right to know what I'm getting for my money. Don't lie to me, ever.

danielweber 12y ago

Since you are competing against people who will tell you that the feature they want already exists, people who are too honest in this area will quickly get filtered out of the marketplace. It sucks, but there are lots of markets where the customer says "please lie to me" and gives their business to the person with the most reassuring lie.

tspike 12y ago
This philosophy seems to imply that trust and relationships are worthless in business. If you perpetually promise features that don't exist, you'll eventually promise something that either can't be implemented at all or has to be implemented sloppily to deliver. How can you possibly sustain a long-term business when you're so willing to damage business relationships?
- chaqke 12y ago
  Many startups don't become long-term businesses. However, the startup that (wins a big contract with a big promise && delivers on its promise) certainly has a larger chance to become a long-term business than the ones that short circuit themselves out by not winning contracts.
billmalarky 12y ago
On the flip side I'm sure you've heard the phrase "nothing gets done until someone sells something." There's a lot of cases where you are certain you can build what the customer needs, but you can't spend resources on it until you have a sale in hand.
nostrademons 12y ago
I don't think that's true. In my experience, the very best companies all refuse to do this. If you leak an upcoming Google feature or promise something to a customer that doesn't exist, you get fired. Same at Facebook and Apple, or Blizzard. I do think it's much more common in highly competitive markets with no barriers to entry. Google/Facebook/Apple have pretty strong moats and large diverse markets, and can afford to release products "when they're done" and not talk about them until then. People in very competitive, low-margin markets often need the sale now. But then, people in the latter type of markets quickly get filtered out of the marketplace regardless of what they do.

simonebrunozzi 12y ago

Unfortunately, this is true.