4 ms·

It's incredible how such a simple idea could become so big. I'm sat here trying to think up some grand scheme that's going to make me my millions. Its a great

by weavie 12y ago

It's incredible how such a simple idea could become so big. I'm sat here trying to think up some grand scheme that's going to make me my millions. Its a great lesson that really all I need is a simple idea. The key is in the execution. Take that simple idea and develop (and market) it to perfection.

andr3a 12y ago
it's not a simple idea, it's a deep idea refined over decades and implemented simply. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban
- doorhammer 12y ago
  I think it's simple in the "simple made easy" kind of way that Rich Hickey has spoken about [1]. I think something can be deep, refined, and simple. I'd also say that those are my favorite concepts. I guess it's what I think of when I use the word 'elegant'. It's really clean and straight-forward to use, but the simple components provide a lot of flexibility and power, while being easy to teach someone. I use trello for just about everything, and I would have dropped it a long time ago if it took more than five minutes to show someone how to use the fundamental concepts. I can get them up and running in no time, and the users (even non technical users) tend to find all the interesting bits on their own as they go. [1] http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy
  - jimbokun 12y ago
    "Trello at its core is just a list of lists. Very simple concept." So it's a Lisp!
- weavie 12y ago
  Trello at its core is just a list of lists. Very simple concept. It can be used to implement more deep ideas such as Kanban, but these aren't forced on you. I remember before Trello came out I needed an app that provided a list of lists (who doesn't). I designed it all out but never implemented it. I saw how much competition there was in the space. There are hundreds of tasks list and to-do apps out there. So when Trello was announced I secretly scoffed at them thinking they were doomed from the start for choosing such an obvious and already implemented idea. Still I signed up and started using it. It has been fascinating to see the app evolve and become a huge success. I only feel a little bit miffed that it was something I almost did myself since I know I would not have implemented it anywhere near as well.
- hamidpalo 12y ago
  I work at Trello. We actually don't think of Trello as Kanban. Trello at its core is a collaborative list of lists. You can use Trello to implement a Kanban workflow but Trello is not an implementation of Kanban. A lot of people use Trello for things like to organizing their soccer teams where there isn't a hint of Kanban -- each list could be a game and people add themselves to indicate that they want to play.
  - NickPollard 12y ago
    I think the great thing about Trello is simplifying down to a pure visual metaphor. Trello is about putting lists of cards on boards. That's it. You can use it to do all kinds of things, but it's a medium rather than a framework. When I've tried other to-do list apps, or project management tools, etc. they all end up becoming too restrictive. They try to teach you to do the right thing in the right way, not realizing that it is different for different people. Joel himself once talked about Excel, and how for most people, Excel isn't about spreadsheets, or formulas, or calculations - it's about laying things out in a grid. That's it. People just want to be able to write things in columns and rows, and colour them. And that simple behaviour is incredibly powerful.
    - doorhammer 12y ago
      > "Trello is about putting lists of cards on boards. That's it." 100% this, for me. That's how I'm able to get people to use it. They ask a lot of questions about what means what and assume it's more complicated than it is. As soon as they realize that the top level metaphor is seriously just a board with cards, they're like "Oh! that's really cool. I can use this" and they're off.
  - bane 12y ago
    Yeah, I and several people I know are regular Trello users and none of use it for Kanban. For us it's just a simple pipelined workflow tracking tool: todo, doing, paused, done Some people use it for completely non-tech things, a couple I know use it to track their sales pipeline. It's pretty amazing that there really wasn't something quite as simple made before it, it seems so obvious in retrospect. The implementation is spot on.
quaffapint 12y ago
It's also already having the right connections and spotlight in the industry. You can come up with ideas, but unless you're able to bring in the people, it's not going anywhere.
kayoone 12y ago
simple idea for a free product with excellent execution and a big brand with lots of reach behind it. Quite good formula for success.
ionforce 12y ago
I think the best ideas start with dog fooding, if at all possible. Notice a trend in the software that FogCreek makes? All easily dog foodable.
- krallja 12y ago
  Dog fooding our own software is one of our greatest strengths: We use FogBugz and Trello to build Kiln, Trello is built from Kiln and Trello. Fogbugz is built from Kiln and FogBugz. (And Joel On Software is built with CityDesk, may it rest in peace.)
rgovind 12y ago
Once in a while in HN you see the question, "what side projects are making you passive money?". From my understanding, most of them are simple SAAS ideas fetching 200-300k. Eg, patio's appointment remainder app. Instead of saying "I need a simple idea"...I think you should phrase it as "what is a simple pain point that I can solve"

by weavie 12y ago

andr3a 12y ago

it's not a simple idea, it's a deep idea refined over decades and implemented simply. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban

doorhammer 12y ago
I think it's simple in the "simple made easy" kind of way that Rich Hickey has spoken about [1]. I think something can be deep, refined, and simple. I'd also say that those are my favorite concepts. I guess it's what I think of when I use the word 'elegant'. It's really clean and straight-forward to use, but the simple components provide a lot of flexibility and power, while being easy to teach someone. I use trello for just about everything, and I would have dropped it a long time ago if it took more than five minutes to show someone how to use the fundamental concepts. I can get them up and running in no time, and the users (even non technical users) tend to find all the interesting bits on their own as they go. [1] http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy
- jimbokun 12y ago
  "Trello at its core is just a list of lists. Very simple concept." So it's a Lisp!
weavie 12y ago
Trello at its core is just a list of lists. Very simple concept. It can be used to implement more deep ideas such as Kanban, but these aren't forced on you. I remember before Trello came out I needed an app that provided a list of lists (who doesn't). I designed it all out but never implemented it. I saw how much competition there was in the space. There are hundreds of tasks list and to-do apps out there. So when Trello was announced I secretly scoffed at them thinking they were doomed from the start for choosing such an obvious and already implemented idea. Still I signed up and started using it. It has been fascinating to see the app evolve and become a huge success. I only feel a little bit miffed that it was something I almost did myself since I know I would not have implemented it anywhere near as well.
hamidpalo 12y ago
I work at Trello. We actually don't think of Trello as Kanban. Trello at its core is a collaborative list of lists. You can use Trello to implement a Kanban workflow but Trello is not an implementation of Kanban. A lot of people use Trello for things like to organizing their soccer teams where there isn't a hint of Kanban -- each list could be a game and people add themselves to indicate that they want to play.
- NickPollard 12y ago
  I think the great thing about Trello is simplifying down to a pure visual metaphor. Trello is about putting lists of cards on boards. That's it. You can use it to do all kinds of things, but it's a medium rather than a framework. When I've tried other to-do list apps, or project management tools, etc. they all end up becoming too restrictive. They try to teach you to do the right thing in the right way, not realizing that it is different for different people. Joel himself once talked about Excel, and how for most people, Excel isn't about spreadsheets, or formulas, or calculations - it's about laying things out in a grid. That's it. People just want to be able to write things in columns and rows, and colour them. And that simple behaviour is incredibly powerful.
  - doorhammer 12y ago
    > "Trello is about putting lists of cards on boards. That's it." 100% this, for me. That's how I'm able to get people to use it. They ask a lot of questions about what means what and assume it's more complicated than it is. As soon as they realize that the top level metaphor is seriously just a board with cards, they're like "Oh! that's really cool. I can use this" and they're off.
- bane 12y ago
  Yeah, I and several people I know are regular Trello users and none of use it for Kanban. For us it's just a simple pipelined workflow tracking tool: todo, doing, paused, done Some people use it for completely non-tech things, a couple I know use it to track their sales pipeline. It's pretty amazing that there really wasn't something quite as simple made before it, it seems so obvious in retrospect. The implementation is spot on.

quaffapint 12y ago

It's also already having the right connections and spotlight in the industry. You can come up with ideas, but unless you're able to bring in the people, it's not going anywhere.

kayoone 12y ago

simple idea for a free product with excellent execution and a big brand with lots of reach behind it. Quite good formula for success.

ionforce 12y ago

I think the best ideas start with dog fooding, if at all possible. Notice a trend in the software that FogCreek makes? All easily dog foodable.

krallja 12y ago
Dog fooding our own software is one of our greatest strengths: We use FogBugz and Trello to build Kiln, Trello is built from Kiln and Trello. Fogbugz is built from Kiln and FogBugz. (And Joel On Software is built with CityDesk, may it rest in peace.)

rgovind 12y ago

Once in a while in HN you see the question, "what side projects are making you passive money?". From my understanding, most of them are simple SAAS ideas fetching 200-300k. Eg, patio's appointment remainder app. Instead of saying "I need a simple idea"...I think you should phrase it as "what is a simple pain point that I can solve"