6 ms·

Orchard and Fig are joining Docker

144 points by eloycoto 12y ago

Good and bad news: - Orchard close - First Docker office in Europe. - Fig continue up&running - New Developer Experience group

eloycoto 12y ago
Good and bad news: - Orchard close - First Docker office in Europe. - Fig continue up&running - New Developer Experience group
quarterto 12y ago
This is great news for the Docker community, and for Ben and Aanand. I knew Ben at university, great guy. With them looking after Developer Experience, I'm excited to see what's next for Docker.
kingrolo 12y ago
This is brilliant news. fig is really handy, and I'm hoping this means we now have an officially blessed way to manage multi container setups.
mr_tomhuda 12y ago
This is amazing, should bring Docker closer to victory!
skrebbel 12y ago
As an Orchard customer, I'm really happy about this. Orchard is a cool service, but their customer service is pretty amateuristic. I think they have all the potential of upping their game given sufficient resources (which I assume they are now getting). If Orchard becomes the go-to "just dump them containers in our cloud" solution for Docker, then great times are ahead! EDIT: oh fuck, they're shutting down? damn, that's shitty. Also the link from the docker.com blog post to https://www.orchardup.com/blog/orchard-is-joining-docker https://www.orchardup.com/blog/orchard-is-joining-docker is broken, and no info at all on https://www.orchardup.com/blog https://www.orchardup.com/blog. Typical.
- aanand 12y ago
  Very sorry you had to hear it from HN - we had our email, blog post etc. ready to go out but there was a scheduling mishap. We also emailed our active customers from last month in advance yesterday. The space has matured a lot, so there are some great alternatives out there. Happy to help you migrate - give me a shout at aanand@orchardup.com
  - webmaven 12y ago
    Release Orchard backend as open source? Note: Consider why fig took off and Orchard didn't... No one wants to be stuck on a provider that might not succeed and have to migrate to a different one unless the new provider is drop-in compatible. It is nice that you are providing migration instructions and help, but the very idea of being at the mercy of an acquired platform's team is what stops me from trying such services in the first place (after being burned by ep.io, 30loops, etc.).
    - skrebbel 12y ago
      Not sure that was the reason. By using Orchard, we allowed ourselves to avoid doing any server management at all. Even without a drop-in replacement, the alternative would have been to set up our own Linux servers somewhere and learn to secure them and to securely send Docker images over and all that. Assuming Orchard wouldn't break overnight, the only real risk we took was that maybe no more decent competitors would pop up in the space and we'd be forced to put our own Docker on an EC2 anyway. If your biggest risk is to be forced to choose your only alternative, but later, then that's not a very grave risk is it?
      - webmaven 12y ago
        Only if you've eliminated various PaaS offerings from consideration as an alternative for avoiding administration costs.
    - bfirsh 12y ago
      The nice thing about using Docker is that everything is drop-in compatible. You can push your images to a provider such as Tutum or Google Cloud and they'll be able to run. If you've written any software that used the Docker remote API on Orchard, you can just point that are your own Docker daemon and it'll keep on working.
terhechte 12y ago
I really love fig, it is a great tool to easily deploy multiple containers without a hassle and without having to know the intricacies of the docker command line. I nowadays use it for all my projects. Great to see it joining Docker. Very cool.
jonty 12y ago
SO pleased for Ben & Aanand, this is the best possible outcome for Orchard/Fig. Brilliant news.
justincormack 12y ago
Great news that Orchard are staying in London and there is now a European Docker office.
skrebbel 12y ago
Is fig going to stick around and be improved, or are Ben and Aanand going to drop it and make something slightly similar right into Docker? We're currently not using it, but maybe we should.
- aanand 12y ago
  A bit of both. Fig is going to stick around, but over time parts of it will find their way into Docker. It won't be deprecated unless there's a better official solution.
  - skrebbel 12y ago
    Thanks, I appreciate the honest and direct answer. If we're looking to replace a bash hack now (which works but isn't the prettiest), would you recommend diving into Fig or waiting until Docker becomes Figgier?
    - aanand 12y ago
      Oh, I'd absolutely recommend diving into Fig. We'll have a lot of Fig users to transition over once it happens, and want to make sure it's a smooth (i.e. documented) process.
patja 12y ago
I always thought this was Orchard: http://www.orchardproject.net/ http://www.orchardproject.net/
- zo1 12y ago
  I was also very confused, and the first google search for Orchard was the one you came across. My first thought was, "this is an .Net CMS, I thought docker was unix-based?" Then I was like, Okay, let's go see what "Fig" is. None of the links on the first search page were for Fig. I got everything from food websites, stock codes, to random content-spam URLs with Fig in it. I'm sorry, but these guys really picked bad names for their products. It's really ridiculous because those names have well-established meanings. Sure, if they get famous enough, their rankings will make their alternate-meaning of those words bubble up. But until then, they're invisible to most of the web. Heck, the linked article doesn't even have a link to Orchard, but rather to a blog post on their domain. If anyone really struggles, here are their links: http://www.fig.sh/ http://www.fig.sh/ https://www.orchardup.com/ https://www.orchardup.com/ *Edit: Searching for "Fig Software" led me to software companies with "Fig" in it, and some Facebook pages. Again, not the actual Fig I was looking for.
  - sashahart 12y ago
    Naming projects without any collisions is really hard to do, unless you like names like 'e31239'.
  - mplewis 12y ago
    http://blog.docker.com/2014/07/welcoming-the-orchard-and-fig-team/ http://blog.docker.com/2014/07/welcoming-the-orchard-and-fig... features links to Orchard and Fig in the first sentence.
    - zo1 12y ago
      I'm pretty sure the Orchard link wasn't there when I first read the article. I distinctly remember searching through the page for Fig and Orchard. The way I actually found Orchard was through the linked blog post near the bottom of the article, then cut out the blog part of the URL to go to their main domain.
sandGorgon 12y ago
Is fig the authoritative way to deploy a bunch of Docker instances for a fairly basic stack - web server, DB, elasticsearch ? I started off thinking about Ansible, but it seems most people on #docker were using Fig. But I dont know what people are doing in production
- aanand 12y ago
  Fig works in production, but it's not our focus. We wrote a blog post on it a while back - it's Orchard-specific, but covers what you need to think about, especially in the "Configuring for deployment" section: https://www.orchardup.com/blog/develop-and-deploy-an-app-with-fig-and-orchard https://www.orchardup.com/blog/develop-and-deploy-an-app-wit...
  - sandGorgon 12y ago
    Are you planning on retaining fig in its current form or probably merging it into Chef/Ansible? In the long term, do you believe that having a very specific CM tools is going to be better than supporting something having a lit of mind share?
- superuser2 12y ago
  The APIs are pretty simple. You could most likely write the orchestration you wanted in a shell script full of calls to curl, or do the same in a nicer scripting language with a decent JSON and http library. I'm working on a very simple orchestrator along the lines for my own needs, as well as a Sinatra application that serves nginx configs to load-balance all the containers running a particular image on a set of hosts. There are many tools in this space, but it's also not hard to write your own - you're just wiring together some REST APIs.
- superuser2 12y ago
  The APIs are pretty simple. You could most likely write the orchestration you wanted in a shell script full of calls to curl, or do the same in a nicer scripting language with a decent JSON and http library. I'm working on a very simple orchestrator along those lines for my own needs (which I will open-source), as well as a Sinatra application that serves nginx configs to load-balance all the containers running a particular image on a set of hosts. There are many tools in this space, but it's also not hard to write your own - you're just wiring together some REST APIs.
tlrobinson 12y ago
I hope Fig or something like it makes it's way into official Docker tools. After wrestling with "Makefile orchestration" for Docker containers then discovering Fig, it's clearly a useful tool.
outside1234 12y ago
Question - has anyone gone whole hog on deploying containers? If so, are you using something like CoreOS or something else to deploy them?

144 points by eloycoto 12y ago

Good and bad news: - Orchard close - First Docker office in Europe. - Fig continue up&running - New Developer Experience group

eloycoto 12y ago

Good and bad news: - Orchard close - First Docker office in Europe. - Fig continue up&running - New Developer Experience group

quarterto 12y ago

This is great news for the Docker community, and for Ben and Aanand. I knew Ben at university, great guy. With them looking after Developer Experience, I'm excited to see what's next for Docker.

kingrolo 12y ago

This is brilliant news. fig is really handy, and I'm hoping this means we now have an officially blessed way to manage multi container setups.

mr_tomhuda 12y ago

This is amazing, should bring Docker closer to victory!

skrebbel 12y ago

As an Orchard customer, I'm really happy about this. Orchard is a cool service, but their customer service is pretty amateuristic. I think they have all the potential of upping their game given sufficient resources (which I assume they are now getting). If Orchard becomes the go-to "just dump them containers in our cloud" solution for Docker, then great times are ahead! EDIT: oh fuck, they're shutting down? damn, that's shitty. Also the link from the docker.com blog post to https://www.orchardup.com/blog/orchard-is-joining-docker https://www.orchardup.com/blog/orchard-is-joining-docker is broken, and no info at all on https://www.orchardup.com/blog https://www.orchardup.com/blog. Typical.

aanand 12y ago
Very sorry you had to hear it from HN - we had our email, blog post etc. ready to go out but there was a scheduling mishap. We also emailed our active customers from last month in advance yesterday. The space has matured a lot, so there are some great alternatives out there. Happy to help you migrate - give me a shout at aanand@orchardup.com
- webmaven 12y ago
  Release Orchard backend as open source? Note: Consider why fig took off and Orchard didn't... No one wants to be stuck on a provider that might not succeed and have to migrate to a different one unless the new provider is drop-in compatible. It is nice that you are providing migration instructions and help, but the very idea of being at the mercy of an acquired platform's team is what stops me from trying such services in the first place (after being burned by ep.io, 30loops, etc.).
  - skrebbel 12y ago
    Not sure that was the reason. By using Orchard, we allowed ourselves to avoid doing any server management at all. Even without a drop-in replacement, the alternative would have been to set up our own Linux servers somewhere and learn to secure them and to securely send Docker images over and all that. Assuming Orchard wouldn't break overnight, the only real risk we took was that maybe no more decent competitors would pop up in the space and we'd be forced to put our own Docker on an EC2 anyway. If your biggest risk is to be forced to choose your only alternative, but later, then that's not a very grave risk is it?
    - webmaven 12y ago
      Only if you've eliminated various PaaS offerings from consideration as an alternative for avoiding administration costs.
  - bfirsh 12y ago
    The nice thing about using Docker is that everything is drop-in compatible. You can push your images to a provider such as Tutum or Google Cloud and they'll be able to run. If you've written any software that used the Docker remote API on Orchard, you can just point that are your own Docker daemon and it'll keep on working.

terhechte 12y ago

I really love fig, it is a great tool to easily deploy multiple containers without a hassle and without having to know the intricacies of the docker command line. I nowadays use it for all my projects. Great to see it joining Docker. Very cool.

jonty 12y ago

SO pleased for Ben & Aanand, this is the best possible outcome for Orchard/Fig. Brilliant news.

justincormack 12y ago

Great news that Orchard are staying in London and there is now a European Docker office.

skrebbel 12y ago

Is fig going to stick around and be improved, or are Ben and Aanand going to drop it and make something slightly similar right into Docker? We're currently not using it, but maybe we should.

aanand 12y ago
A bit of both. Fig is going to stick around, but over time parts of it will find their way into Docker. It won't be deprecated unless there's a better official solution.
- skrebbel 12y ago
  Thanks, I appreciate the honest and direct answer. If we're looking to replace a bash hack now (which works but isn't the prettiest), would you recommend diving into Fig or waiting until Docker becomes Figgier?
  - aanand 12y ago
    Oh, I'd absolutely recommend diving into Fig. We'll have a lot of Fig users to transition over once it happens, and want to make sure it's a smooth (i.e. documented) process.

patja 12y ago

I always thought this was Orchard: http://www.orchardproject.net/ http://www.orchardproject.net/

zo1 12y ago
I was also very confused, and the first google search for Orchard was the one you came across. My first thought was, "this is an .Net CMS, I thought docker was unix-based?" Then I was like, Okay, let's go see what "Fig" is. None of the links on the first search page were for Fig. I got everything from food websites, stock codes, to random content-spam URLs with Fig in it. I'm sorry, but these guys really picked bad names for their products. It's really ridiculous because those names have well-established meanings. Sure, if they get famous enough, their rankings will make their alternate-meaning of those words bubble up. But until then, they're invisible to most of the web. Heck, the linked article doesn't even have a link to Orchard, but rather to a blog post on their domain. If anyone really struggles, here are their links: http://www.fig.sh/ http://www.fig.sh/ https://www.orchardup.com/ https://www.orchardup.com/ *Edit: Searching for "Fig Software" led me to software companies with "Fig" in it, and some Facebook pages. Again, not the actual Fig I was looking for.
- sashahart 12y ago
  Naming projects without any collisions is really hard to do, unless you like names like 'e31239'.
- mplewis 12y ago
  http://blog.docker.com/2014/07/welcoming-the-orchard-and-fig-team/ http://blog.docker.com/2014/07/welcoming-the-orchard-and-fig... features links to Orchard and Fig in the first sentence.
  - zo1 12y ago
    I'm pretty sure the Orchard link wasn't there when I first read the article. I distinctly remember searching through the page for Fig and Orchard. The way I actually found Orchard was through the linked blog post near the bottom of the article, then cut out the blog part of the URL to go to their main domain.

sandGorgon 12y ago

Is fig the authoritative way to deploy a bunch of Docker instances for a fairly basic stack - web server, DB, elasticsearch ? I started off thinking about Ansible, but it seems most people on #docker were using Fig. But I dont know what people are doing in production

aanand 12y ago
Fig works in production, but it's not our focus. We wrote a blog post on it a while back - it's Orchard-specific, but covers what you need to think about, especially in the "Configuring for deployment" section: https://www.orchardup.com/blog/develop-and-deploy-an-app-with-fig-and-orchard https://www.orchardup.com/blog/develop-and-deploy-an-app-wit...
- sandGorgon 12y ago
  Are you planning on retaining fig in its current form or probably merging it into Chef/Ansible? In the long term, do you believe that having a very specific CM tools is going to be better than supporting something having a lit of mind share?
superuser2 12y ago
The APIs are pretty simple. You could most likely write the orchestration you wanted in a shell script full of calls to curl, or do the same in a nicer scripting language with a decent JSON and http library. I'm working on a very simple orchestrator along the lines for my own needs, as well as a Sinatra application that serves nginx configs to load-balance all the containers running a particular image on a set of hosts. There are many tools in this space, but it's also not hard to write your own - you're just wiring together some REST APIs.
superuser2 12y ago
The APIs are pretty simple. You could most likely write the orchestration you wanted in a shell script full of calls to curl, or do the same in a nicer scripting language with a decent JSON and http library. I'm working on a very simple orchestrator along those lines for my own needs (which I will open-source), as well as a Sinatra application that serves nginx configs to load-balance all the containers running a particular image on a set of hosts. There are many tools in this space, but it's also not hard to write your own - you're just wiring together some REST APIs.

tlrobinson 12y ago

I hope Fig or something like it makes it's way into official Docker tools. After wrestling with "Makefile orchestration" for Docker containers then discovering Fig, it's clearly a useful tool.

outside1234 12y ago

Question - has anyone gone whole hog on deploying containers? If so, are you using something like CoreOS or something else to deploy them?