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> And getting too much sleep—not just too little of it—is associated with health problems including diabetes, obesity and cardiovascular disease and with higher

by lnanek2 12y ago

> And getting too much sleep—not just too little of it—is associated with health problems including diabetes, obesity and cardiovascular disease and with higher rates of death, studies show I don't understand how people can honestly report stuff like this. If you are sick, you often sleep more because you are drained and tired. That's plenty to make the data look like that. Sleeping more doesn't necessarily make you sick in the first place. There's no point bringing this up because it would be silly to try to sleep less to improve your health.

max-a 12y ago
but if you wake up like a zombie, It is unlikely that you go exercise or cook something healthy.
spacehome 12y ago
It's not just the result of poor health causing more sleep. Both can be caused by a third factor. Chronic lack of exercise causes people to sleep 9+ hours per day. Put those same people on regular aerobic exercise regimes, and they start sleeping <8 hours. Also, it's not the most outrageous hypothesis that oversleeping directly causes health problems, too. The body is complicated and poorly understood.
- bradshaw1965 12y ago
  ... Chronic lack of exercise causes people to sleep 9+ hours per day. Put those same people on regular aerobic exercise regimes, and they start sleeping <8 hours. Peak performance exercise can demand 9+ hours of sleep. I'd be reluctant to categorize sleep needs based on exercise regime.
  - saraid216 12y ago
    > I'd be reluctant to categorize sleep needs based on exercise regime. You literally just did that.
    - bradshaw1965 12y ago
      Yep. Should have expressed that it is non-linear.
- tezka 12y ago
  "Chronic lack of exercise causes people to sleep 9+ hours per day." Citation needed.
  - spacehome 12y ago
    Sorry, but personal experiences. Not the night of, of course, but having a habit of regular exercise.
streptomycin 12y ago
I don't understand how people can think scientists don't know this. From the article: People who reported they slept 6.5 to 7.4 hours had a lower mortality rate than those with shorter or longer sleep. The study, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry in 2002, controlled for 32 health factors, including medications. Of course controlling for confounders does not magically mean their study is perfect - there are always confounders that are either unknown or unable to be measured, particularly in retrospective/observational studies like this. But it's not nothing.
- mreiland 12y ago
  correlation does not equal causation.
  - theandrewbailey 12y ago
    Posting those 5 words doesn't dismiss an argument. You could throw out a lot of medical studies on that rule alone.
    - enraged_camel 12y ago
      >>Posting those 5 words doesn't dismiss an argument. While it doesn't equal causation, it's a sure as hell cue that's something funny might be going on. It may be a cue, but cues themselves are not actionable. They simply mean that more research is needed until causation is found.
      - mreiland 12y ago
        If you look you'll see he edited his post to say something different after your response. The dishonesty itself is astounding and I wish people had more pride in themselves than that.
- Fomite 12y ago
  I think it's somewhat hard to necessarily point to the direction of association pointing the way the paper asserts its pointing, even leaving I would have been much more impressed by using sleep as a time-varying exposure, rather than a time-fixed exposure, but the study is a rather old one. Lumping all reports from 9.5 to 16.5 hours makes me a little nervous however - that's a range from "sleeps more than average" to "sleeps the vast majority of the day, and enough that a full time job is impossible". I'd assert those are very different people.
lilsunnybee 12y ago
This article definitely has some issues. It should really be titled "For some people, seven hours of sleep might be better than eight", but that's probably not eye-catching enough. The article supports what you are saying here: > Other experts caution against studies showing ill effects from too much sleep. Illness may cause someone to sleep or spend more time in bed, these experts say. There's this gem of wisdom only towards the end of the article: > "I don't think you can overdose on healthy sleep. When you get enough sleep your body will wake you up," said Safwan Badr, chief of the division of pulmonary, critical care and sleep medicine at Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit. Sleeping until you naturally wake up is generally a good strategy.
- blarara 12y ago
  >Sleeping until you naturally wake up is generally a good strategy. WHAT? No no this is outrageous. This doesn't sound right. It needs to be a nice round number like 8. Yeah 8 sounds good.
- greggman 12y ago
  > Sleeping until you naturally wake up is generally a good strategy. That sounds nice but doesn't fit my experience at all. If I'm in a dark room I can sleep 10-12-14 hours easily. When my body wakes me up is not at all connected to how much sleep I need. Or certainly not directly connected.
mathattack 12y ago
It's also silly to assume that a magic # is right for most people.
orky56 12y ago
I'm not sure of your issue. The article used the term "associated" meaning that the above average sleep could be a symptom and/or a cause of those referenced health problems. The article does a good job of identifying the optimal sleep duration of a healthy individual. (Healthy being free of temporary and permanent ailments.)

by lnanek2 12y ago

max-a 12y ago

but if you wake up like a zombie, It is unlikely that you go exercise or cook something healthy.

spacehome 12y ago

It's not just the result of poor health causing more sleep. Both can be caused by a third factor. Chronic lack of exercise causes people to sleep 9+ hours per day. Put those same people on regular aerobic exercise regimes, and they start sleeping <8 hours. Also, it's not the most outrageous hypothesis that oversleeping directly causes health problems, too. The body is complicated and poorly understood.

bradshaw1965 12y ago
... Chronic lack of exercise causes people to sleep 9+ hours per day. Put those same people on regular aerobic exercise regimes, and they start sleeping <8 hours. Peak performance exercise can demand 9+ hours of sleep. I'd be reluctant to categorize sleep needs based on exercise regime.
- saraid216 12y ago
  > I'd be reluctant to categorize sleep needs based on exercise regime. You literally just did that.
  - bradshaw1965 12y ago
    Yep. Should have expressed that it is non-linear.
tezka 12y ago
"Chronic lack of exercise causes people to sleep 9+ hours per day." Citation needed.
- spacehome 12y ago
  Sorry, but personal experiences. Not the night of, of course, but having a habit of regular exercise.

streptomycin 12y ago

I don't understand how people can think scientists don't know this. From the article: People who reported they slept 6.5 to 7.4 hours had a lower mortality rate than those with shorter or longer sleep. The study, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry in 2002, controlled for 32 health factors, including medications. Of course controlling for confounders does not magically mean their study is perfect - there are always confounders that are either unknown or unable to be measured, particularly in retrospective/observational studies like this. But it's not nothing.

mreiland 12y ago
correlation does not equal causation.
- theandrewbailey 12y ago
  Posting those 5 words doesn't dismiss an argument. You could throw out a lot of medical studies on that rule alone.
  - enraged_camel 12y ago
    >>Posting those 5 words doesn't dismiss an argument. While it doesn't equal causation, it's a sure as hell cue that's something funny might be going on. It may be a cue, but cues themselves are not actionable. They simply mean that more research is needed until causation is found.
    - mreiland 12y ago
      If you look you'll see he edited his post to say something different after your response. The dishonesty itself is astounding and I wish people had more pride in themselves than that.
Fomite 12y ago
I think it's somewhat hard to necessarily point to the direction of association pointing the way the paper asserts its pointing, even leaving I would have been much more impressed by using sleep as a time-varying exposure, rather than a time-fixed exposure, but the study is a rather old one. Lumping all reports from 9.5 to 16.5 hours makes me a little nervous however - that's a range from "sleeps more than average" to "sleeps the vast majority of the day, and enough that a full time job is impossible". I'd assert those are very different people.

lilsunnybee 12y ago

This article definitely has some issues. It should really be titled "For some people, seven hours of sleep might be better than eight", but that's probably not eye-catching enough. The article supports what you are saying here: > Other experts caution against studies showing ill effects from too much sleep. Illness may cause someone to sleep or spend more time in bed, these experts say. There's this gem of wisdom only towards the end of the article: > "I don't think you can overdose on healthy sleep. When you get enough sleep your body will wake you up," said Safwan Badr, chief of the division of pulmonary, critical care and sleep medicine at Wayne State University School of Medicine in Detroit. Sleeping until you naturally wake up is generally a good strategy.

blarara 12y ago
>Sleeping until you naturally wake up is generally a good strategy. WHAT? No no this is outrageous. This doesn't sound right. It needs to be a nice round number like 8. Yeah 8 sounds good.
greggman 12y ago
> Sleeping until you naturally wake up is generally a good strategy. That sounds nice but doesn't fit my experience at all. If I'm in a dark room I can sleep 10-12-14 hours easily. When my body wakes me up is not at all connected to how much sleep I need. Or certainly not directly connected.

mathattack 12y ago

It's also silly to assume that a magic # is right for most people.

orky56 12y ago

I'm not sure of your issue. The article used the term "associated" meaning that the above average sleep could be a symptom and/or a cause of those referenced health problems. The article does a good job of identifying the optimal sleep duration of a healthy individual. (Healthy being free of temporary and permanent ailments.)