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I really like your work, but not sure that it lies on the right side of the framework/library divide. For example, to realize the full benefits of your approach

I really like your work, but not sure that it lies on the right side of the framework/library divide. For example, to realize the full benefits of your approach, you define a new programming language with "no escape hatches". That's the most extreme kind of framework thinking! My favorite post about libraries and frameworks is this one: http://web.archive.org/web/20130810134741/http://an9.org/devdev/why_frameworks_suck http://web.archive.org/web/20130810134741/http://an9.org/dev... > Frameworks hurt sharing. I'd really like to give you this fork Jimmy, but you're gonna need a knife and plate to use it. The framework checks out all your girlfriends for you, the framework won't let anyone dirty get through, the framework will wait up until you get in, the framework will always find out were you've been, the framework keeps you healthy and clean. Frameworks embrace, extend and hold on to greedily.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
We are not so much defining frameworks as we are new ways of computing. In that sense, it's not really something that will be ready tomorrow (or ever). I do use glitch as a library in C# for UI and compiler programming (hard to program very interactive UI and compilers otherwise), but that is with lots of escape hatches :)
- cousin_it 12y ago
  Fair enough :-) Thanks for the pointers!
discreteevent 12y ago
The point about defining a new language is that the abstraction doesn't leak, whereas frameworks generally leak left right and centre.
- edem 12y ago
  According to Joel Spolsky all abstractions leak: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/LeakyAbstractions.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/LeakyAbstractions.htm...
  - Dewie 12y ago
    Does assembly language leak compared to machine code? That is, does mnemonic names for machine code instructions leak?
    - fanf2 12y ago
      Yes: for example the x86 MOV instruction is actually a family of instructions. You can see the leakage in the restrictions on which combinations of addressing modes you can use.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

We are not so much defining frameworks as we are new ways of computing. In that sense, it's not really something that will be ready tomorrow (or ever). I do use glitch as a library in C# for UI and compiler programming (hard to program very interactive UI and compilers otherwise), but that is with lots of escape hatches :)

cousin_it 12y ago
Fair enough :-) Thanks for the pointers!

discreteevent 12y ago

The point about defining a new language is that the abstraction doesn't leak, whereas frameworks generally leak left right and centre.

edem 12y ago
According to Joel Spolsky all abstractions leak: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/LeakyAbstractions.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/LeakyAbstractions.htm...
- Dewie 12y ago
  Does assembly language leak compared to machine code? That is, does mnemonic names for machine code instructions leak?
  - fanf2 12y ago
    Yes: for example the x86 MOV instruction is actually a family of instructions. You can see the leakage in the restrictions on which combinations of addressing modes you can use.