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Yes, there is still a net migration to California, and tax increases are unlikely to just kill it, but it is also revealing how many bigger businesses are reloc

by cnst 12y ago

Yes, there is still a net migration to California, and tax increases are unlikely to just kill it, but it is also revealing how many bigger businesses are relocating to elsewhere, like Texas or Tennessee. Both Google and Apple has lots of HR people in Texas. The Japanese auto manufacturers have since left SoCal, too: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-autos-toyota-motor-torrance-idUSBREA3R1EW20140428 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-autos-toyota-mo... http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/04/27/it-makes-sense-for-toyota-to-leave-california-for-texas/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/04/27/it-makes-sen... "254 companies left California in 2011": http://www.ocregister.com/articles/moved-342887-companies-texas.html http://www.ocregister.com/articles/moved-342887-companies-te... The housing prices in the greater SF Bay Area are simply ridiculous (even in the South Bay, where there's lots of empty or unused land, and East Bay, where there are few high-paid job opportunities), the housing and land speculation is quite out of hand.

krisdol 12y ago
What you say is absolutely true. I just want to give my perspective whose intent is not to counter your point or argue with it. As a tech worker, I'm migrating out of Texas soon. The influx of West Coast companies (and their jobs) to Austin is spiking up prices of, well, everything. There's no chance to ever stop renting as all of the Austin property is owned by investors, meanwhile we're being payed Texas wages for California jobs at a skyrocketing cost of living in a city with no infrastructure, what-so-ever, to deal with its own population density. I'm sure companies will continue to move here, but the higher standards of living and worker-friendly political climates of the coasts seem far more attractive. It's all just a cycle. Austin will get over-crowded and over-developed and some other neat hip cheap place to do business will spring up and companies will move again. Who knows, your hometown might be next.
- joelrunyon 12y ago
  Where will you be heading next? I hear a lot of people talking about Nashville.
  - muzz 12y ago
    Not sure where GP or GGP is headed, but it's clear where tech companies are expanding jobs-- in the Bay Area.
muzz 12y ago
Amazing how the kind of "predictions" mentioned in the article are still deeply held
rgbrenner 12y ago
"254 companies left California in 2011": This obviously has nothing to do with the tax increase in the article (voted on in 2012).
jtzhou 12y ago
Actually net migration is negative for California within the United States -- 93,915 more people are leaving California for other US states than arriving there. Now, immigration, generally from poor countries, is still flowing through California but that does not mean that California is a more desirable place to live or raise a family in the middle-class, compared to other U.S. states. http://www.governing.com/gov-data/census/2010-census-state-migration-statistics.html http://www.governing.com/gov-data/census/2010-census-state-m...
- muzz 12y ago
  California attracts lots of well-educated people from India and China, although it certainly does lose natives who seek cheaper areas.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  You mean the poor Chinese migrant worker who is making $250K a year? Oh, and he can buy a house in some places for around $500-750K (assume east bay somewhere), which is way cheaper than Shanghai/Beijing. California is definitely desirable in terms of climate, quality of life, and job opportunities (if in tech); whether you can afford to live there is another matter.
  - jtzhou 12y ago
    Perhaps in the Bay Area, but California-wide most of the newcomers are not highly paid skilled workers from China. California is a wonderful state, but mostly for the rich or early arrivals.
bsder 12y ago
Ahem. ONE Japanese auto manufacturer's HQ and sales (not manufacturing) left California after Texas threw $40 million at them. http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2014/04/texas-enterprise-fund-will-grant-40-million-to-toyota.html/ http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2014/04/texas-enterprise-f... I wish Texas good luck, but I'm happy to see them leave California. All of the analyses show that business incentives are a suckers game--companies that move from incentives keep on moving every time an incentive pops up.
- cnst 12y ago
  Nissan has already moved to Nashville, Tennessee a few years prior, in 2006. > All of the analyses show that business incentives are a suckers game--companies that move from incentives keep on moving every time an incentive pops up. Which analyses? All of these are one-time incentives, and they require substantial investment from the company of their own funds, so, if anything, they simply offset the cost of moving. Where do you expect they'll move to next, after Texas?
  - muzz 12y ago
    If an area actually provides a better environment for business, there would be no need to throw taxpayer money at businesses to attract them.
    - cnst 12y ago
      Are you under the belief that everyone can just move between the states without any capital cost? If an area doesn't provide a better environment for business, no reasonably-available amount of taxpayer incentives would convince a business to move.
      - muzz 12y ago
        Do you think that companies don't factor the potential costs when deciding where to locate and where to expand?
  - 12y ago

by cnst 12y ago

krisdol 12y ago

What you say is absolutely true. I just want to give my perspective whose intent is not to counter your point or argue with it. As a tech worker, I'm migrating out of Texas soon. The influx of West Coast companies (and their jobs) to Austin is spiking up prices of, well, everything. There's no chance to ever stop renting as all of the Austin property is owned by investors, meanwhile we're being payed Texas wages for California jobs at a skyrocketing cost of living in a city with no infrastructure, what-so-ever, to deal with its own population density. I'm sure companies will continue to move here, but the higher standards of living and worker-friendly political climates of the coasts seem far more attractive. It's all just a cycle. Austin will get over-crowded and over-developed and some other neat hip cheap place to do business will spring up and companies will move again. Who knows, your hometown might be next.

joelrunyon 12y ago
Where will you be heading next? I hear a lot of people talking about Nashville.
- muzz 12y ago
  Not sure where GP or GGP is headed, but it's clear where tech companies are expanding jobs-- in the Bay Area.

muzz 12y ago

Amazing how the kind of "predictions" mentioned in the article are still deeply held

rgbrenner 12y ago

"254 companies left California in 2011": This obviously has nothing to do with the tax increase in the article (voted on in 2012).

jtzhou 12y ago

Actually net migration is negative for California within the United States -- 93,915 more people are leaving California for other US states than arriving there. Now, immigration, generally from poor countries, is still flowing through California but that does not mean that California is a more desirable place to live or raise a family in the middle-class, compared to other U.S. states. http://www.governing.com/gov-data/census/2010-census-state-migration-statistics.html http://www.governing.com/gov-data/census/2010-census-state-m...

muzz 12y ago
California attracts lots of well-educated people from India and China, although it certainly does lose natives who seek cheaper areas.
seanmcdirmid 12y ago
You mean the poor Chinese migrant worker who is making $250K a year? Oh, and he can buy a house in some places for around $500-750K (assume east bay somewhere), which is way cheaper than Shanghai/Beijing. California is definitely desirable in terms of climate, quality of life, and job opportunities (if in tech); whether you can afford to live there is another matter.
- jtzhou 12y ago
  Perhaps in the Bay Area, but California-wide most of the newcomers are not highly paid skilled workers from China. California is a wonderful state, but mostly for the rich or early arrivals.

bsder 12y ago

Ahem. ONE Japanese auto manufacturer's HQ and sales (not manufacturing) left California after Texas threw $40 million at them. http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2014/04/texas-enterprise-fund-will-grant-40-million-to-toyota.html/ http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2014/04/texas-enterprise-f... I wish Texas good luck, but I'm happy to see them leave California. All of the analyses show that business incentives are a suckers game--companies that move from incentives keep on moving every time an incentive pops up.

cnst 12y ago
Nissan has already moved to Nashville, Tennessee a few years prior, in 2006. > All of the analyses show that business incentives are a suckers game--companies that move from incentives keep on moving every time an incentive pops up. Which analyses? All of these are one-time incentives, and they require substantial investment from the company of their own funds, so, if anything, they simply offset the cost of moving. Where do you expect they'll move to next, after Texas?
- muzz 12y ago
  If an area actually provides a better environment for business, there would be no need to throw taxpayer money at businesses to attract them.
  - cnst 12y ago
    Are you under the belief that everyone can just move between the states without any capital cost? If an area doesn't provide a better environment for business, no reasonably-available amount of taxpayer incentives would convince a business to move.
    - muzz 12y ago
      Do you think that companies don't factor the potential costs when deciding where to locate and where to expand?
- 12y ago