11 ms·

Kindle Unlimited

245 points by zeratul 12y ago

kenny_r 12y ago
Very saddened by this: We're sorry. Kindle Unlimited is currently only available for US customers. Please visit us again when it is available in your country.
- leviathan 12y ago
  I still don't understand why, when content is digital and distribution doesn't cost anything extra, things like this are restricted to specific countries.
  - Hermel 12y ago
    It's legal, not technical restrictions.
    - officemonkey 12y ago
      It's not even laws, it's just contracts. Which, if parties were motivated, could be rewritten.
      - jack-r-abbit 12y ago
        "Please visit us again when it is available in your country." makes it sound like they are motivated to rewrite them. But you can't just rewrite everything at once. I understand the frustration that people outside the US feel when a new service is launched as US-only first but you have to start somewhere. And a US-based company is most likely to start at home and then branch out.
        officemonkey 12y ago
        I was pretty bummed when Spotify was Europe-first. Motivation to rewrite is often tied to money. No money? No motivation. Which is why some people in "remote places" don't really have many qualms about piracy. If it's not available at any price, what _should_ I do??
  - omni 12y ago
    Laws.
    - Touche 12y ago
      Specifically which?
      - jasonlotito 12y ago
        Copyright. I'd imagine they don't have the copyright to distribute things in this manner outside the US at the moment.
      - fleshgolem 12y ago
        Depends on country. Laws for selling books can actually get quite complicated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement)
  - why-el 12y ago
    I am really sorry people downvote you. People please don't downvote for mere disagreement; not upvoting is enough. You are actively discouraging otherwise completely legitimate and sensible questions.
    - eclipxe 12y ago
      This isn't Reddit. It is perfectly acceptable to downvote out of disagreement, as pg has stated before.
  - AndrewDucker 12y ago
    Contracts. See this explanation by author Charlie Stross: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/07/some-rambling-thoughts-on-regi.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/07/some-ram...
    - msh 12y ago
      But amazon have no problem selling me ebooks and audiobooks even thou in am located outside the us.
      - gdilla 12y ago
        Sure, because those books have rights to be sold in your geo. OR, your account is based in the US (billing address).
        dingaling 12y ago
        I think the OP's point is some subset of the Kindle ebooks are already available in his locale, so why not roll-out this service for those titles?
        icebraining 12y ago
        Probably because the license they have to sell those titles doesn't allow them to rent them on this service.
        msh 12y ago
        My billing address is Danish so that is not it. I have not yet been declined the opportunity to buy a ebook so it's strange that the rules for renting is different.
      - mwfunk 12y ago
        That's because they made deals with content providers to sell you ebooks and audiobooks outside the US, and presumably they don't have those deals for Kindle Unlimited yet. Just because Amazon has the publisher's permission to sell you an ebook doesn't mean that they automatically have the publisher's permission to give that ebook to Kindle Unlimited subscribers.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    cstross elaborated on it recently. http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/07/some-rambling-thoughts-on-regi.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/07/some-ram... HN thread for that article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7998604 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7998604.
  - ctdonath 12y ago
    Content licensing. Different companies (or legally distinct subsidiaries) control licensing & distribution for different countries. Inherent limits of physical books (i.e.: space & mass & energy needed to haul content across significant distances) mitigated the issue, as it's usually cheaper to get a book locally than ship it from afar. Now that content can, for most practical purposes, be shipped free with instant delivery the legal ownership rights are being enforced and controlled (and more middlemen squeezing into). Amazon will get around to sorting out licensing issues elsewhere, but 'til then they've got a big local market to satiate.
  - easytiger 12y ago
    They want you to pirate so they can later sue you. More profitable biz mod than making something useful
- butwhy 12y ago
  I just changed my address to a US one and I was allowed to sign up straight away.
- song 12y ago
  I live in France but it worked right away. I still have an old address in the US on my amazon account from when I studied there which might explain why it works. My credit card's billing address is in France though so I think they're really just trying to make it as easy as possible to sign up while still respecting the letter of the contracts they signed.
edent 12y ago
"We're sorry. Kindle Unlimited is currently only available for US customers. Please visit us again when it is available in your country." That's ok Amazon. My local library lets me check out as many ebooks as I can read. And audio books. And paper books. Total cost? FREE! via taxation which works out as £13 per year (budget is £8 million, population is 650k)
- watty 12y ago
  Amazon isn't intentionally discriminating against your country, they don't have a choice.
  - edent 12y ago
    I'm well aware of that. And, I don't think it's discrimination to only sign complex licensing deals in only one territory. I'm just not sure why people in the UK would go for this when the Library already does a fine job of "all you can read".
    - jasonlfunk 12y ago
      It's often the case that the books I want to read are not at my local library; either because they don't have them or they are already checked out. This is especially true of e-books. Wilbur[1] doesn't have the greatest selection. [1] http://wilbor.lib.overdrive.com/826F0311-F3BF-4487-A2D0-CA70A9B33921/10/50/en/Default.htm http://wilbor.lib.overdrive.com/826F0311-F3BF-4487-A2D0-CA70...
      - edent 12y ago
        Luckily, in a democracy, you can address this. Write to your local elected council member (or whoever it is in your part of the world) and ask them what they're going to do about it. Or, get on the board of your local library.
    - thefreeman 12y ago
      I haven't been to a Library in probably 20 years, so this is a legitimate question, not being snarky. Can you somehow check out e-books at libraries these days? Some people actually prefer that experience.
xux 12y ago
Looks like Amazon is trying to do to ebooks what Spotify and Netflix have done to music and content. The pricing is interesting. At $9.99, it's more than Netflix and the same as Spotify. I'm not sure if anyone will binge read books the same way people do with the other two services.
- uptown 12y ago
  "I'm not sure if anyone will binge read books the same way people do with the other two services." Surely you're joking, right? $9.99 is typically close-to the cost of a single ebook. For any avid reader, they'll easily blow through at least a few books a month.
- xhrpost 12y ago
  There are plenty of people already on the $15/mo plan with Audible. Myself included. I listen to audio books on my commute. The difference with my more expensive plan is that I get too keep the audio books. Though I have not re-listened to any so this is something for me to think about.
  - mimighost 12y ago
    It is a surprise that Audible is an Amazon company. Will the launch of this service create self-competition?
    - walterbell 12y ago
      Amazon also own GoodReads, CreateSpace, Shelfari, Abe Books, The Book Depository, BookFinder and 40% of LibraryThing. Some of those compete.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
hospadam 12y ago
Can anyone offer any guidance on the audiobook aspect of this? What is a "Kindle book with narration"? If I'm an audible customer... doesn't this seem like a far better deal? Their page seems very light on details for audiobooks. Edit: I just found a link that includes Kindle Unlimited books with Narration: http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=9630682011 http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=9630682011
- Echo117 12y ago
  There are about 2,000 audiobooks available through Kindle Unlimited. Compared with 150,000+ available through Audible. So yes, if the books you want to listen to are on KU, it's a better deal. *Full press release embedded here: http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-unlimited-reading-2014-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-unlimited-reading-2014...
  - hospadam 12y ago
    Full press release ended with me finding a link that shows the narrated books they include. Edited above.
lukev 12y ago
Well, I looked up a small handful of books I have been interested in reading next, and while all are available on Kindle, none are on the Unlimited program. Looks like I'll be giving this one a pass.
mrt0mat0 12y ago
To all the "this is just a 10 dollar library card", I ask you this: if library books are the way to go, why do people buy endless amounts of books from amazon. Amazon became successful by selling books. Audible is another successful company that offers a feature that according to you, can be achieved at a library. Clearly libraries are missing something or else we'd be using them more. Maybe it's one click instant access. Maybe it's the larger selection, or that lack of having to wait. Regardless, it's not the same.
- bigtunacan 12y ago
  Just to make sure we're all on the same page. Audible is just another piece of Amazon.
- ctdonath 12y ago
  Libraries have fixed locations you must travel to, and limited collections (rarely more than one copy of each book) of aging content (limited range of latest material). If you want something in particular, good chance it's not available. Amazon will, from the convenience of any computer (mobile devices included), ship you books from a vast & nearly inexhaustible collection at acceptable costs. Now the Unlimited plan brings you both for $10/mo: beyond-library-scale of practically free books delivered instantly, and bringing you in close proximity to darn near every book ever written available at modest cost in 2 days. Heck, many subscribers would pay more than $10/mo just in gas driving to the library.
- orbifold 12y ago
  This of course all depends on which country you live in. Where I am from libraries already offer ebook and audiobooks and university libraries have bought licenses from most academic publishers, so that students can download most of their course material and almost all journal articles free of charge. Also all libraries are a 15 minute bike ride away. All of them combined carry a higher quality selection of books than Amazon with their 600.000 could possibly have. Of course they probably won't have some obscure medieval vampire romance novel. The only books I ever ordered from Amazon were books in foreign languages and academic books that Amazon apparently prints on demand on behalf of publishers. Books in my mother tongue can only be sold at a fixed price set by the publisher, so there is little incentive of buying from a company that mistreats their warehouse workers.
swanson 12y ago
I love the idea, but the selection is not good enough (for me) yet. I keep an Amazon wishlist as a "reading queue" and none of the 60 books (technical, business, pop-psych) in it were available on Kindle Unlimited. I usually buy 2-3 Kindle books a month at around $9/per, so I would definitely use this service if the selection improves. I kind of wonder if Amazon could get away with charging $9/month for any book they have and just cash-in on folks that "spend" less than that a month.
- uptown 12y ago
  Agreed. I don't read many books, but I asked my wife about the last 3 ebooks she'd read. One of the three was already a free book due to Amazon prime and was also included in Kindle Unlimited. The other two weren't available as part of Kindle Unlimited. So comparing Kindle Unlimited to Netflix's online streaming is actually a pretty accurate correlation. It's currently comprised of second-tier (or lower) books that aren't likely to yield the same profits as new and currently popular titles, so they're used as filler for this service.
  - walterbell 12y ago
    Free, top-tier pre-1920 ebooks from centuries of book reviews: http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/themes/ http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/themes/
- brotoss 12y ago
  Yep, just went through my list of 38 and only 2 are on unlimited. My list is comprised of relatively popular books that are relatively old, nothing like new or anything. Examples: Army at Dawn, Eternal Golden Braid, Tale of Dueling Neurosurgeons, When Genius Failed, Snow Crash, Good Omens, The Signal and The Noise, The Looming Tower. I would expect at least a couple of these to be on there, its not like they're at peak popularity or anything. But I did chuckle at Piketty's Capital being on unlimited.
- marpstar 12y ago
  Was wondering if this could replace my Safari Books Online subscription, and the answer to that is a resounding 'no'.
davidw 12y ago
I wonder if you get to keep the notes you make from books in this? Of the last 5 books I've read, only 2 were in this, so I'm not sure I'll sign up.
bennesvig 12y ago
As an author with two books enrolled in KDP select, I didn't know they'd be included in Kindle Unlimited. It will be interesting to see if this has any effect on sales.
- wiremine 12y ago
  Do you know how you and the publisher are compensated in this situation? I'm assuming there is some sort of royalty stream coming back to you? (I'm not asking for details, just generalities).
  - geoelectric 12y ago
    I'll answer since they didn't. Kindle Select is direct publishing only, so they don't have another publisher. They get paid based on number of their reads (that's anyone who reads >10% of their book) as a proportion of number of total reads across the library, calculated against a money pool that Amazon determines month over month and tunes to keep the program attractive. More details here: https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A3BQJE2QV37M1B#kll_calc https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A3BQJE2QV37M1B#kll_calc
WhatsName 12y ago
Can someone explain to me, whats the difference between Kindle Unlimited and Amazon Prime[1]? [1] http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000739811&ref=primedp_koll http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000739811&ref=...
- cottonseed 12y ago
  Kindle Unlimited gives you unlimited access to about 600,000 ebooks and audio books on Kindle devices. Prime gives you free 2-day shipping on a large number of Amazon products and gives you unlimited access to Amazon Video. I personally was a little surprised (and disappointed) Amazon didn't roll this out as another Prime perk. I'm not sure why making Amazon Video available to Prime members makes financial sense to Amazon, but making Kindle Unlimited doesn't. edit: With Prime, you also get access to music, some ebooks, and something called "Amazon Pantry". There is a description here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200444160 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2...
  - ToastyMallows 12y ago
    Probably because Amazon is known more for their books than their movie/TV show selection. Also: Prime gives you access to the lending library, but you can only lend one book a month.
    - cottonseed 12y ago
      > Prime gives you access to the lending library I'm a Prime subscriber and I didn't know about this. It seems the lending library has 350K-500K books, not dissimilar to Kindle Unlimited. And like other commenters, it looks like both unlimited and the kindle lending library has pretty small intersection with my reading habits.
      - ToastyMallows 12y ago
        I'll agree with both points. I tend to like non-fiction books more than anything. But I imagine both the lending library and Kindle Unlimited are trying to hit the greatest percentage of the population.
ntaso 12y ago
Is this the same as the Lending Library you'll get with Prime, where you can get 1 book for free per month if you're Prime customer? If so, the offer in Germany is absolutely terrible. I found only 2 books in that library, because they count endless self-published garbage-titles to their library of "600,000+" titles. From the comments here, I assume that the model is similar in the US and 9.99$ is only so cheap, because there's mostly junk in the library.
mimighost 12y ago
It is like a paid pass to amazon's selected digital library.
programminggeek 12y ago
I think the audiobooks part is going to be more interesting than the rest. I spend a lot of time listening to podcasts, so listening to unlimited audiobooks is something that might be amazing.
- edpichler 12y ago
  Agreed. Did you checked the list if it is really good?
- jawns 12y ago
  I completely agree with you. Right now, I mostly rely on audiobooks from my public library system (the price point -- free -- is hard to beat). Audible (also owned by Amazon) is really the only other decent option for professionally narrated stuff (I've tried non-professionally-narrated stuff, and it's generally really bad). And since people don't generally listen to the same audiobook over and over again, the way they do with music, I don't think many people will mind that they don't get to "own" a copy of the book, like with Audible. If it weren't for the fact that Audible has a far better selection, I'd say it would be ridiculous for anyone to continue with Audible over Kindle Unlimited. I mean, one audiobook a month vs. unlimited? No hard decision there.
weisser 12y ago
This has a ways to go in terms of content before I would actually use it.
unicornporn 12y ago
So let's see... 10 bucks for books, 10 bucks for Spotify, 10 bucks for Netflix. That's $360 a year. It kind of adds up, doesn't it? :) When I was little I went to the local library. There I had unlimited access to movies, music and books, for free. Sure, it's hard to compare the music collection to Spotify. But at the time I was content. And I actually think I'd still prefer both the movie collection and the book collection of the library (especially as my native tongue is Swedish).
- jonknee 12y ago
  Less than a dollar a day for unlimited media consumption doesn't sound like a lot to me. It's still significantly less than 1 cable subscription.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- geoelectric 12y ago
  $400 or so was about one month's budget for me for media, though that included games and my $100/mo cable bill. I'm way ahead with KU (was using Oyster), Netflix/Hulu, and Rdio. If someone comes out with a decent all-you-can-eat gaming service that doesn't make me juggle discs, I'll be way, way ahead.
ryanklee 12y ago
If I have a digital copy, it's important for me to have a physical copy, as well. At different times, I prefer different media. Until I can buy a book and get a digital version for either free or for a (very) small added fee, I'm just not getting on board with kindles (or whatever e-reader device). Amazon did roll out some version of this book+ebook service a few months ago, but it included such a small number of volumes that it was virtually worthless.
- walterbell 12y ago
  It's dependent on publishers. At any time you can ask Amazon to search through your _entire_ history of Amazon print purchases and it will give you free access to the Kindle versions, if the publisher enabled this feature.
  - ryanklee 12y ago
    Yup, I know. But out of the hundreds of books I've purchased through Amazon, only a small handful offer free Kindle versions. The complications between Amazon and publishers are deep and messy and I surely won't get what I want as a consumer for some time, if ever. Just thinking about the ideal situation for me, however unrealistic it is.
fideloper 12y ago
How do authors get paid with this? I don't imagine a pay per play scheme work like it does with the music industry
- bennesvig 12y ago
  I assume the same way they do with KDP Select where prime members can borrow a free book once a month. Amazon will set aside a pool of money and divide it among the books that were read each month as part of the program.
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    Yes. As a Kindle author, I got an email this morning stating that's how it will work.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
tokenadult 12y ago
I signed up for the 30-day free trial, and immediately found books that I'd like to read that are on long request waiting lists at my friendly county public library. Now I can look up those books any time I like during the next thirty days. I'll see whether or not I think there is enough value here to pay ten dollars a month indefinitely to keep this service, but I think I will.
makmanalp 12y ago
This service would have the extremely interesting effect of replacing itself with all your reading sources. Consider: Given a choice between buying a book elsewhere and reading it here, you're going to choose the latter because it's free. But also, if you normally read a book per month, since you're paying for it whether you read or not, you'd have to basically read more from here to be able to make it "worth it". So given a choice between buying a book elsewhere or reading a different one here, you're still going to lean towards reading it here. Pretty smart!
- rahimnathwani 12y ago
  Are books fungible? If you're in a rich Western country, the time you spend reading a book probably has an opportunity cost much greater than the cost to acquire rights to read the book. Why would you spend 10 hours with a book whose marginal cost is $0, when you could pay $10 and spend those ten hours with a better book?
  - makmanalp 12y ago
    Wow, never thought of it that way. Although I don't think that'd factor in as much if there's books I want to read on both sides, which I assume is the case. So it's not so much an absolute ranking of books. If it's over a threshold, I want to read it. Given two books I want to read, it might not be that clear that I want to read one over the other, but when you add the cost difference it'd become clearer.
jwr 12y ago
"We're sorry. Kindle Unlimited is currently only available for US customers. Please visit us again when it is available in your country" Again. Companies just don't learn. This is the Internet. If you sell digital content online, there is no "US customers". There are exactly two groups of customers: those with credit cards that are willing to pay you and all the rest. This whole idea of segmenting by country is not only outdated, but harmful to business and outright offensive to customers that were not "included" in the "segment" that was "chosen". Let's see, what will those people left outside the door do? Will they wait and "visit us again when it is available in your country"? Surely! They will patiently regularly check the webpage to see whether Amazon has graciously agreed to take their money. Or they'll just turn to Bittorrent and get the goods anyway, right now. Anticipating responses: yes, I know, the usual narrative is that it's the evil publishers. So what? Amazon fights the publishers on other fronts, why can't it arrange for worldwide licensing here?
- sremani 12y ago
  Publishing and Media (Music, Movies & Entertainment) are two sectors known to have illogical business practices and entrenched interests. The internet is still trying to disrupt these sectors, Amazon would love to take your credit card number but they have to operate on what is possible and choose their fights wisely. Secondly, US is the trend-setter in many things internet, that may be coming to an end but companies would want to try new things in a market they have most comfort before expanding out.
- dynamic 12y ago
  The copyrights are often dispersed, with different publishers owning different rights. It's not a matter of just "arrang[ing] for worldwide licensing." It's dealing with a completely different set of owners who may have no interest in signing on. Of COURSE Amazon wants to access customers in other countries, it's not like they haven't thought of it!
  - jwr 12y ago
    > Of COURSE Amazon wants to access customers in other countries, it's not like they haven't thought of it! Actually, I believe they are not fully aware of the adverse effect these kinds of restrictions have: as much as many people try to explain that it's not Amazon's fault (just observe the downvotes on my previous comment!), it is Amazon.com that rejects me as a customer. But perhaps I should refrain from commenting, as downvoting based on opinions seems to have become the norm recently.
jaysonelliot 12y ago
I'm very disturbed by the steady erosion of ownership that has been happening for the past few years. Subscription models are an attractive way to get some digital content for a low price, whether it's music, software, movies, or books—but the internet has a notoriously short memory, and I fear that we're condemning ourselves to becoming cultural goldfish. I have books and records from my youth that sit on my shelf and are there for me any time I want to revisit them. Heck, I even have software from back then because I never got rid of my Apple II. Of course, there are emulators, and Spotify probably has 60%-70% of the records that are in my collection, and I can find A Wrinkle in Time on the Kindle. But how long is that guaranteed to be the case? And how can I be sure that the digital simulacrum are really the same as the originals, if the originals are gone? For the moment, it's an easy answer—just don't use the subscription services, and keep owning things. But will that always be an option? Why should ownership continue to be an option ten, twenty, or thirty years from now, when it's so much more attractive to companies to rent their products to you for a constant stream of monthly income? Will books end up getting unskippable "updates," or even being deleted at the whim of the publishers or Amazon one day?
- yan 12y ago
  I can fully understand your sentiment, and to some degree emotionally connect with it, but rationally: my entire bookshelf of computer science and literary classics has gone untouched since my initial read through the vast majority of books. I keep looking around and I'm not sure that I'm happy with the "ownership" aspect of books, or a lot of stuff in general. (Having moved three times during the last six years, moving books is an awful experience). This is probably an expression of what I've been feeling in general as of late, but I am extremely happy with the "subscriptionification" of media that's been happening. Spotify's huge library is a net win for me, as opposed to collecting albums for them to just collect dust. For me, revisiting what I used to listen to in high school by over-hearing someone's playlist has a far stronger emotional reaction than revisiting it by walking past a bookshelf. Regarding stuff disappearing ten, twenty, thirty years from now: my experpience has been the opposite. The Internet has been getting better and better and archiving content of yesterday, and has provided better and better access to it. My personal lean has been to own less stuff in general, which includes books, music and media in general. So needless to say, I'm pretty excited about Kindle Unlimited.
lowlevel 12y ago
We're sorry. Kindle Unlimited is currently only available for US customers. Please visit us again when it is available in your country. (figured)
fleshgolem 12y ago
To anyone complaining about country restrictions: Selling books is actually quite the complicated matter in some countries. At least in Germany you are not allowed to sell a book at a price of your choice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement) It can be pretty fucking annoying to have these laws in place (they do have their merits, but... that's a completely different debate), but I can understand Amazon not having worked out all the legal issues to go worldwide with this
Eleopteryx 12y ago
Sadly, I don't read nearly enough to justify a $10/mo subscription. (This is something I'd like to improve, but I have ADHD and poor reading comprehension.) This is contrast to a service like Google music that I use nearly every day. I wish there were a cheaper tier with perhaps fewer rentals at a lower price. Based on the current volume of reading that I do, the most I can see myself paying for a subscription is about $3~5/mo.
hugh4life 12y ago
Hmm... how can you tell which books are available for it? I searched for a philosopher I like to read and none of his books had the "unlimited" indicator... so I don't think this is for me.
- Nogwater 12y ago
  To answer your question: Try searching the Kindle store for something that is in Kindle Unlimited. For example: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=harry%20potter http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3D... You'll see "$0.00 kindleunlimited" for books that are available. The selection is grim.
tonyblundell 12y ago
Does anyone have any info on how royalties will be calculated yet?
zeroDivisible 12y ago
This offer is only available to US customers - I think it's worth to reflect that one in the title in here.
epaladin 12y ago
Are they making the whole Audible library available through this?
- drcode 12y ago
  nope... very limited audio selection compared to the audible.com catalog.
Tloewald 12y ago
Given that Amazon royally screws independent authors (not being a publisher, I can't speak to whether they screw larger publishers too) who want to price their works about $9.99 (if you're after a vertical market, Amazon hates you) I can only imagine they'll extend the screwing to authors who won't also make their works available via Unlimited. (How do they screw us? They cap the 70% less download fee royalty at the $9.99 level. In order to make more than $7 (less download fee) per sale, you need to price a book at over $20. So if I sell a $20 book on Amazon, BN, and iBooks -- I get twice as much from BN and iBooks as I do from Amazon. To make the same royalty from Amazon, I need to charge $40, but Amazon won't let me do that. So I pulled my book from Amazon and revenues increased.)
- easytiger 12y ago
  Do you think indie paper book publishers don't get screwed?
- bira 12y ago
  Which book?
- tjdetwiler 12y ago
  I assume it's a technical book? There are very few novels I'd pay even $10 for.
  - listic 12y ago
    That's a pity, too, from the writer's point of view.
    - rdl 12y ago
      $7 to the writer for a fiction work is pretty good, IMO. There's probably no way you're going to achieve that otherwise. (I'm part of the "fuck the legacy publishers" camp; I do care about compensating writers and some editors, but in general, I'd rather pay less, read a lot more books, and have writers paid more, and fewer useless NYC publishing house employees playing games and acting as gatekeepers.)
beauzero 12y ago
I think this is good for "candy books" like thrillers, etc. but for books that I want to keep...no. I don't care as much about movies but for books...this is not for me.
knerd1 12y ago
What does this mean for oyster?
msoad 12y ago
I mostly read software and technical books. None of the books I am interested in is in the collection. Maybe the improve the collection later, but for now it's cheaper to buy for me.
baddox 12y ago
It looks like I was incorrect when I predicted that the ebooks would only be available on true Kindle devices (and not for example the Kindle app on iPad). Unfortunately it looks like the Lending Library (which comes with Prime membership) still only works on true Kindle devices. I wonder if this is a licensing issue, or just a deliberate choice on Amazon's part. http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1000739811 http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1000739811
samirmenon 12y ago
Just as an alternative, the NYPL (which is the New York City public library system) allows you to get a library card, and browse from their online ebook collection, as long as you are a resident of New York state. It's a bit of an annoying process, but their large selection makes it worth it. http://www.nypl.org/help/library-card http://www.nypl.org/help/library-card
cnaut 12y ago
This is also interesting from the cloud storage perspective. Amazon is slowly making personal cloud storage almost irrelevant by providing all these subscription streaming services. You don't event have to digitally own something anymore you just rent it and stream it from the cloud. No need to back up the majority of the files you have.
grn 12y ago
It looks really great! So bad it isn't available in Poland. Does anyone know when they will expand to other countries?
api 12y ago
I notice few commenters have brought up the obvious deflationary pressure being brought to bear against authors and publishers here. The same thing has occurred in music and film. In the future is art and literature going to once again be the exclusive province of either those who have taken a implicit vow of poverty or the independently wealthy? Are we seeing the end of the era when a person could actively earn a living doing these things?
WalterBright 12y ago
It seems that the debut of $10/mo Kindle Unlimited was accompanied by the demise of the one per month free Kindle lending library for Prime customers.
- geoelectric 12y ago
  Where did you see that? The KLL page is still up and accepting Prime memberships, and the Kindle Select (author program behind KU and KLL) terms are clear that authors can opt their books into or out of either or both. Edit: I do notice that the website doesn't display the KLL option for me on eligible books, but I assume that's because my KU subscription enables less restrictive access to the same book.
  - WalterBright 12y ago
    My books which were formerly enrolled in Kindle Select are no longer. They are now in Kindle Unlimited. I didn't change anything.
- WalterBright 12y ago
  It seems I'm wrong about that. Apologies.
ghshephard 12y ago
Perhaps my reading behavior is atypical - but "Hyperion", "I Robot", "Ringworld", "Stranger in a Strange Land", "Dune" - none of the books I read were in the Kindle Unlimited List, and they were all in the Vancouver Public Library. I love the concept - but I need at least a 50% hit rate on the books I read before i'll be willing to pay $120/year to use it.
phaus 12y ago
I think Amazon's always done a pretty good job of rolling out new services, but this is a train wreck. About 3 minutes after I signed up for the free trial, I cancelled it. 99% of the books are the same type of low-quality, spammy nonsense that I was already getting free through Prime. I was hoping for something along the lines of Safari Books, only with a much wider range of categories. As hard as it might be to imagine, the selection of books here is far far worse than Netflix's selection of movies. That's pretty fucking sad.
- gcb0 12y ago
  this is the first comment in this thread that is not predicting the future. there is some 200 i just scrolled past above. yeah, amazon prime content is anything but prime. odd seasons of old series. movies that even late night open tv is embarrassed of showing, and now teen romances.
wiradikusuma 12y ago
Let say I'm not in the US, what are my options if I'm interested to subscribe? Will VPN work?

245 points by zeratul 12y ago

Very saddened by this: We're sorry. Kindle Unlimited is currently only available for US customers. Please visit us again when it is available in your country.

leviathan 12y ago
I still don't understand why, when content is digital and distribution doesn't cost anything extra, things like this are restricted to specific countries.
- Hermel 12y ago
  It's legal, not technical restrictions.
  - officemonkey 12y ago
    It's not even laws, it's just contracts. Which, if parties were motivated, could be rewritten.
    - jack-r-abbit 12y ago
      "Please visit us again when it is available in your country." makes it sound like they are motivated to rewrite them. But you can't just rewrite everything at once. I understand the frustration that people outside the US feel when a new service is launched as US-only first but you have to start somewhere. And a US-based company is most likely to start at home and then branch out.
      - officemonkey 12y ago
        I was pretty bummed when Spotify was Europe-first. Motivation to rewrite is often tied to money. No money? No motivation. Which is why some people in "remote places" don't really have many qualms about piracy. If it's not available at any price, what _should_ I do??
- omni 12y ago
  Laws.
  - Touche 12y ago
    Specifically which?
    - jasonlotito 12y ago
      Copyright. I'd imagine they don't have the copyright to distribute things in this manner outside the US at the moment.
    - fleshgolem 12y ago
      Depends on country. Laws for selling books can actually get quite complicated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement)
- why-el 12y ago
  I am really sorry people downvote you. People please don't downvote for mere disagreement; not upvoting is enough. You are actively discouraging otherwise completely legitimate and sensible questions.
  - eclipxe 12y ago
    This isn't Reddit. It is perfectly acceptable to downvote out of disagreement, as pg has stated before.
- AndrewDucker 12y ago
  Contracts. See this explanation by author Charlie Stross: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/07/some-rambling-thoughts-on-regi.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/07/some-ram...
  - msh 12y ago
    But amazon have no problem selling me ebooks and audiobooks even thou in am located outside the us.
    - gdilla 12y ago
      Sure, because those books have rights to be sold in your geo. OR, your account is based in the US (billing address).
      - dingaling 12y ago
        I think the OP's point is some subset of the Kindle ebooks are already available in his locale, so why not roll-out this service for those titles?
        icebraining 12y ago
        Probably because the license they have to sell those titles doesn't allow them to rent them on this service.
      - msh 12y ago
        My billing address is Danish so that is not it. I have not yet been declined the opportunity to buy a ebook so it's strange that the rules for renting is different.
    - mwfunk 12y ago
      That's because they made deals with content providers to sell you ebooks and audiobooks outside the US, and presumably they don't have those deals for Kindle Unlimited yet. Just because Amazon has the publisher's permission to sell you an ebook doesn't mean that they automatically have the publisher's permission to give that ebook to Kindle Unlimited subscribers.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  cstross elaborated on it recently. http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/07/some-rambling-thoughts-on-regi.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/07/some-ram... HN thread for that article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7998604 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7998604.
- ctdonath 12y ago
  Content licensing. Different companies (or legally distinct subsidiaries) control licensing & distribution for different countries. Inherent limits of physical books (i.e.: space & mass & energy needed to haul content across significant distances) mitigated the issue, as it's usually cheaper to get a book locally than ship it from afar. Now that content can, for most practical purposes, be shipped free with instant delivery the legal ownership rights are being enforced and controlled (and more middlemen squeezing into). Amazon will get around to sorting out licensing issues elsewhere, but 'til then they've got a big local market to satiate.
- easytiger 12y ago
  They want you to pirate so they can later sue you. More profitable biz mod than making something useful
butwhy 12y ago
I just changed my address to a US one and I was allowed to sign up straight away.
song 12y ago
I live in France but it worked right away. I still have an old address in the US on my amazon account from when I studied there which might explain why it works. My credit card's billing address is in France though so I think they're really just trying to make it as easy as possible to sign up while still respecting the letter of the contracts they signed.

edent 12y ago

"We're sorry. Kindle Unlimited is currently only available for US customers. Please visit us again when it is available in your country." That's ok Amazon. My local library lets me check out as many ebooks as I can read. And audio books. And paper books. Total cost? FREE! via taxation which works out as £13 per year (budget is £8 million, population is 650k)

watty 12y ago
Amazon isn't intentionally discriminating against your country, they don't have a choice.
- edent 12y ago
  I'm well aware of that. And, I don't think it's discrimination to only sign complex licensing deals in only one territory. I'm just not sure why people in the UK would go for this when the Library already does a fine job of "all you can read".
  - jasonlfunk 12y ago
    It's often the case that the books I want to read are not at my local library; either because they don't have them or they are already checked out. This is especially true of e-books. Wilbur[1] doesn't have the greatest selection. [1] http://wilbor.lib.overdrive.com/826F0311-F3BF-4487-A2D0-CA70A9B33921/10/50/en/Default.htm http://wilbor.lib.overdrive.com/826F0311-F3BF-4487-A2D0-CA70...
    - edent 12y ago
      Luckily, in a democracy, you can address this. Write to your local elected council member (or whoever it is in your part of the world) and ask them what they're going to do about it. Or, get on the board of your local library.
  - thefreeman 12y ago
    I haven't been to a Library in probably 20 years, so this is a legitimate question, not being snarky. Can you somehow check out e-books at libraries these days? Some people actually prefer that experience.

xux 12y ago

Looks like Amazon is trying to do to ebooks what Spotify and Netflix have done to music and content. The pricing is interesting. At $9.99, it's more than Netflix and the same as Spotify. I'm not sure if anyone will binge read books the same way people do with the other two services.

uptown 12y ago
"I'm not sure if anyone will binge read books the same way people do with the other two services." Surely you're joking, right? $9.99 is typically close-to the cost of a single ebook. For any avid reader, they'll easily blow through at least a few books a month.
xhrpost 12y ago
There are plenty of people already on the $15/mo plan with Audible. Myself included. I listen to audio books on my commute. The difference with my more expensive plan is that I get too keep the audio books. Though I have not re-listened to any so this is something for me to think about.
- mimighost 12y ago
  It is a surprise that Audible is an Amazon company. Will the launch of this service create self-competition?
  - walterbell 12y ago
    Amazon also own GoodReads, CreateSpace, Shelfari, Abe Books, The Book Depository, BookFinder and 40% of LibraryThing. Some of those compete.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

hospadam 12y ago

Can anyone offer any guidance on the audiobook aspect of this? What is a "Kindle book with narration"? If I'm an audible customer... doesn't this seem like a far better deal? Their page seems very light on details for audiobooks. Edit: I just found a link that includes Kindle Unlimited books with Narration: http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=9630682011 http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=9630682011

Echo117 12y ago
There are about 2,000 audiobooks available through Kindle Unlimited. Compared with 150,000+ available through Audible. So yes, if the books you want to listen to are on KU, it's a better deal. *Full press release embedded here: http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-unlimited-reading-2014-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-unlimited-reading-2014...
- hospadam 12y ago
  Full press release ended with me finding a link that shows the narrated books they include. Edited above.

lukev 12y ago

Well, I looked up a small handful of books I have been interested in reading next, and while all are available on Kindle, none are on the Unlimited program. Looks like I'll be giving this one a pass.

mrt0mat0 12y ago

To all the "this is just a 10 dollar library card", I ask you this: if library books are the way to go, why do people buy endless amounts of books from amazon. Amazon became successful by selling books. Audible is another successful company that offers a feature that according to you, can be achieved at a library. Clearly libraries are missing something or else we'd be using them more. Maybe it's one click instant access. Maybe it's the larger selection, or that lack of having to wait. Regardless, it's not the same.

bigtunacan 12y ago
Just to make sure we're all on the same page. Audible is just another piece of Amazon.
ctdonath 12y ago
Libraries have fixed locations you must travel to, and limited collections (rarely more than one copy of each book) of aging content (limited range of latest material). If you want something in particular, good chance it's not available. Amazon will, from the convenience of any computer (mobile devices included), ship you books from a vast & nearly inexhaustible collection at acceptable costs. Now the Unlimited plan brings you both for $10/mo: beyond-library-scale of practically free books delivered instantly, and bringing you in close proximity to darn near every book ever written available at modest cost in 2 days. Heck, many subscribers would pay more than $10/mo just in gas driving to the library.
orbifold 12y ago
This of course all depends on which country you live in. Where I am from libraries already offer ebook and audiobooks and university libraries have bought licenses from most academic publishers, so that students can download most of their course material and almost all journal articles free of charge. Also all libraries are a 15 minute bike ride away. All of them combined carry a higher quality selection of books than Amazon with their 600.000 could possibly have. Of course they probably won't have some obscure medieval vampire romance novel. The only books I ever ordered from Amazon were books in foreign languages and academic books that Amazon apparently prints on demand on behalf of publishers. Books in my mother tongue can only be sold at a fixed price set by the publisher, so there is little incentive of buying from a company that mistreats their warehouse workers.

swanson 12y ago

I love the idea, but the selection is not good enough (for me) yet. I keep an Amazon wishlist as a "reading queue" and none of the 60 books (technical, business, pop-psych) in it were available on Kindle Unlimited. I usually buy 2-3 Kindle books a month at around $9/per, so I would definitely use this service if the selection improves. I kind of wonder if Amazon could get away with charging $9/month for any book they have and just cash-in on folks that "spend" less than that a month.

uptown 12y ago
Agreed. I don't read many books, but I asked my wife about the last 3 ebooks she'd read. One of the three was already a free book due to Amazon prime and was also included in Kindle Unlimited. The other two weren't available as part of Kindle Unlimited. So comparing Kindle Unlimited to Netflix's online streaming is actually a pretty accurate correlation. It's currently comprised of second-tier (or lower) books that aren't likely to yield the same profits as new and currently popular titles, so they're used as filler for this service.
- walterbell 12y ago
  Free, top-tier pre-1920 ebooks from centuries of book reviews: http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/themes/ http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/themes/
brotoss 12y ago
Yep, just went through my list of 38 and only 2 are on unlimited. My list is comprised of relatively popular books that are relatively old, nothing like new or anything. Examples: Army at Dawn, Eternal Golden Braid, Tale of Dueling Neurosurgeons, When Genius Failed, Snow Crash, Good Omens, The Signal and The Noise, The Looming Tower. I would expect at least a couple of these to be on there, its not like they're at peak popularity or anything. But I did chuckle at Piketty's Capital being on unlimited.
marpstar 12y ago
Was wondering if this could replace my Safari Books Online subscription, and the answer to that is a resounding 'no'.

davidw 12y ago

I wonder if you get to keep the notes you make from books in this? Of the last 5 books I've read, only 2 were in this, so I'm not sure I'll sign up.

bennesvig 12y ago

As an author with two books enrolled in KDP select, I didn't know they'd be included in Kindle Unlimited. It will be interesting to see if this has any effect on sales.

wiremine 12y ago
Do you know how you and the publisher are compensated in this situation? I'm assuming there is some sort of royalty stream coming back to you? (I'm not asking for details, just generalities).
- geoelectric 12y ago
  I'll answer since they didn't. Kindle Select is direct publishing only, so they don't have another publisher. They get paid based on number of their reads (that's anyone who reads >10% of their book) as a proportion of number of total reads across the library, calculated against a money pool that Amazon determines month over month and tunes to keep the program attractive. More details here: https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A3BQJE2QV37M1B#kll_calc https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A3BQJE2QV37M1B#kll_calc

WhatsName 12y ago

Can someone explain to me, whats the difference between Kindle Unlimited and Amazon Prime[1]? [1] http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000739811&ref=primedp_koll http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/?docId=1000739811&ref=...

cottonseed 12y ago
Kindle Unlimited gives you unlimited access to about 600,000 ebooks and audio books on Kindle devices. Prime gives you free 2-day shipping on a large number of Amazon products and gives you unlimited access to Amazon Video. I personally was a little surprised (and disappointed) Amazon didn't roll this out as another Prime perk. I'm not sure why making Amazon Video available to Prime members makes financial sense to Amazon, but making Kindle Unlimited doesn't. edit: With Prime, you also get access to music, some ebooks, and something called "Amazon Pantry". There is a description here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200444160 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2...
- ToastyMallows 12y ago
  Probably because Amazon is known more for their books than their movie/TV show selection. Also: Prime gives you access to the lending library, but you can only lend one book a month.
  - cottonseed 12y ago
    > Prime gives you access to the lending library I'm a Prime subscriber and I didn't know about this. It seems the lending library has 350K-500K books, not dissimilar to Kindle Unlimited. And like other commenters, it looks like both unlimited and the kindle lending library has pretty small intersection with my reading habits.
    - ToastyMallows 12y ago
      I'll agree with both points. I tend to like non-fiction books more than anything. But I imagine both the lending library and Kindle Unlimited are trying to hit the greatest percentage of the population.

ntaso 12y ago

Is this the same as the Lending Library you'll get with Prime, where you can get 1 book for free per month if you're Prime customer? If so, the offer in Germany is absolutely terrible. I found only 2 books in that library, because they count endless self-published garbage-titles to their library of "600,000+" titles. From the comments here, I assume that the model is similar in the US and 9.99$ is only so cheap, because there's mostly junk in the library.

mimighost 12y ago

It is like a paid pass to amazon's selected digital library.

programminggeek 12y ago

I think the audiobooks part is going to be more interesting than the rest. I spend a lot of time listening to podcasts, so listening to unlimited audiobooks is something that might be amazing.

edpichler 12y ago
Agreed. Did you checked the list if it is really good?
jawns 12y ago
I completely agree with you. Right now, I mostly rely on audiobooks from my public library system (the price point -- free -- is hard to beat). Audible (also owned by Amazon) is really the only other decent option for professionally narrated stuff (I've tried non-professionally-narrated stuff, and it's generally really bad). And since people don't generally listen to the same audiobook over and over again, the way they do with music, I don't think many people will mind that they don't get to "own" a copy of the book, like with Audible. If it weren't for the fact that Audible has a far better selection, I'd say it would be ridiculous for anyone to continue with Audible over Kindle Unlimited. I mean, one audiobook a month vs. unlimited? No hard decision there.

weisser 12y ago

This has a ways to go in terms of content before I would actually use it.

unicornporn 12y ago

So let's see... 10 bucks for books, 10 bucks for Spotify, 10 bucks for Netflix. That's $360 a year. It kind of adds up, doesn't it? :) When I was little I went to the local library. There I had unlimited access to movies, music and books, for free. Sure, it's hard to compare the music collection to Spotify. But at the time I was content. And I actually think I'd still prefer both the movie collection and the book collection of the library (especially as my native tongue is Swedish).

jonknee 12y ago
Less than a dollar a day for unlimited media consumption doesn't sound like a lot to me. It's still significantly less than 1 cable subscription.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
geoelectric 12y ago
$400 or so was about one month's budget for me for media, though that included games and my $100/mo cable bill. I'm way ahead with KU (was using Oyster), Netflix/Hulu, and Rdio. If someone comes out with a decent all-you-can-eat gaming service that doesn't make me juggle discs, I'll be way, way ahead.

ryanklee 12y ago

If I have a digital copy, it's important for me to have a physical copy, as well. At different times, I prefer different media. Until I can buy a book and get a digital version for either free or for a (very) small added fee, I'm just not getting on board with kindles (or whatever e-reader device). Amazon did roll out some version of this book+ebook service a few months ago, but it included such a small number of volumes that it was virtually worthless.

walterbell 12y ago
It's dependent on publishers. At any time you can ask Amazon to search through your _entire_ history of Amazon print purchases and it will give you free access to the Kindle versions, if the publisher enabled this feature.
- ryanklee 12y ago
  Yup, I know. But out of the hundreds of books I've purchased through Amazon, only a small handful offer free Kindle versions. The complications between Amazon and publishers are deep and messy and I surely won't get what I want as a consumer for some time, if ever. Just thinking about the ideal situation for me, however unrealistic it is.

fideloper 12y ago

How do authors get paid with this? I don't imagine a pay per play scheme work like it does with the music industry

bennesvig 12y ago
I assume the same way they do with KDP Select where prime members can borrow a free book once a month. Amazon will set aside a pool of money and divide it among the books that were read each month as part of the program.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  Yes. As a Kindle author, I got an email this morning stating that's how it will work.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

tokenadult 12y ago

I signed up for the 30-day free trial, and immediately found books that I'd like to read that are on long request waiting lists at my friendly county public library. Now I can look up those books any time I like during the next thirty days. I'll see whether or not I think there is enough value here to pay ten dollars a month indefinitely to keep this service, but I think I will.

makmanalp 12y ago

This service would have the extremely interesting effect of replacing itself with all your reading sources. Consider: Given a choice between buying a book elsewhere and reading it here, you're going to choose the latter because it's free. But also, if you normally read a book per month, since you're paying for it whether you read or not, you'd have to basically read more from here to be able to make it "worth it". So given a choice between buying a book elsewhere or reading a different one here, you're still going to lean towards reading it here. Pretty smart!

rahimnathwani 12y ago
Are books fungible? If you're in a rich Western country, the time you spend reading a book probably has an opportunity cost much greater than the cost to acquire rights to read the book. Why would you spend 10 hours with a book whose marginal cost is $0, when you could pay $10 and spend those ten hours with a better book?
- makmanalp 12y ago
  Wow, never thought of it that way. Although I don't think that'd factor in as much if there's books I want to read on both sides, which I assume is the case. So it's not so much an absolute ranking of books. If it's over a threshold, I want to read it. Given two books I want to read, it might not be that clear that I want to read one over the other, but when you add the cost difference it'd become clearer.

jwr 12y ago

"We're sorry. Kindle Unlimited is currently only available for US customers. Please visit us again when it is available in your country" Again. Companies just don't learn. This is the Internet. If you sell digital content online, there is no "US customers". There are exactly two groups of customers: those with credit cards that are willing to pay you and all the rest. This whole idea of segmenting by country is not only outdated, but harmful to business and outright offensive to customers that were not "included" in the "segment" that was "chosen". Let's see, what will those people left outside the door do? Will they wait and "visit us again when it is available in your country"? Surely! They will patiently regularly check the webpage to see whether Amazon has graciously agreed to take their money. Or they'll just turn to Bittorrent and get the goods anyway, right now. Anticipating responses: yes, I know, the usual narrative is that it's the evil publishers. So what? Amazon fights the publishers on other fronts, why can't it arrange for worldwide licensing here?

sremani 12y ago
Publishing and Media (Music, Movies & Entertainment) are two sectors known to have illogical business practices and entrenched interests. The internet is still trying to disrupt these sectors, Amazon would love to take your credit card number but they have to operate on what is possible and choose their fights wisely. Secondly, US is the trend-setter in many things internet, that may be coming to an end but companies would want to try new things in a market they have most comfort before expanding out.
dynamic 12y ago
The copyrights are often dispersed, with different publishers owning different rights. It's not a matter of just "arrang[ing] for worldwide licensing." It's dealing with a completely different set of owners who may have no interest in signing on. Of COURSE Amazon wants to access customers in other countries, it's not like they haven't thought of it!
- jwr 12y ago
  > Of COURSE Amazon wants to access customers in other countries, it's not like they haven't thought of it! Actually, I believe they are not fully aware of the adverse effect these kinds of restrictions have: as much as many people try to explain that it's not Amazon's fault (just observe the downvotes on my previous comment!), it is Amazon.com that rejects me as a customer. But perhaps I should refrain from commenting, as downvoting based on opinions seems to have become the norm recently.

jaysonelliot 12y ago

I'm very disturbed by the steady erosion of ownership that has been happening for the past few years. Subscription models are an attractive way to get some digital content for a low price, whether it's music, software, movies, or books—but the internet has a notoriously short memory, and I fear that we're condemning ourselves to becoming cultural goldfish. I have books and records from my youth that sit on my shelf and are there for me any time I want to revisit them. Heck, I even have software from back then because I never got rid of my Apple II. Of course, there are emulators, and Spotify probably has 60%-70% of the records that are in my collection, and I can find A Wrinkle in Time on the Kindle. But how long is that guaranteed to be the case? And how can I be sure that the digital simulacrum are really the same as the originals, if the originals are gone? For the moment, it's an easy answer—just don't use the subscription services, and keep owning things. But will that always be an option? Why should ownership continue to be an option ten, twenty, or thirty years from now, when it's so much more attractive to companies to rent their products to you for a constant stream of monthly income? Will books end up getting unskippable "updates," or even being deleted at the whim of the publishers or Amazon one day?

yan 12y ago
I can fully understand your sentiment, and to some degree emotionally connect with it, but rationally: my entire bookshelf of computer science and literary classics has gone untouched since my initial read through the vast majority of books. I keep looking around and I'm not sure that I'm happy with the "ownership" aspect of books, or a lot of stuff in general. (Having moved three times during the last six years, moving books is an awful experience). This is probably an expression of what I've been feeling in general as of late, but I am extremely happy with the "subscriptionification" of media that's been happening. Spotify's huge library is a net win for me, as opposed to collecting albums for them to just collect dust. For me, revisiting what I used to listen to in high school by over-hearing someone's playlist has a far stronger emotional reaction than revisiting it by walking past a bookshelf. Regarding stuff disappearing ten, twenty, thirty years from now: my experpience has been the opposite. The Internet has been getting better and better and archiving content of yesterday, and has provided better and better access to it. My personal lean has been to own less stuff in general, which includes books, music and media in general. So needless to say, I'm pretty excited about Kindle Unlimited.

lowlevel 12y ago

We're sorry. Kindle Unlimited is currently only available for US customers. Please visit us again when it is available in your country. (figured)

fleshgolem 12y ago

To anyone complaining about country restrictions: Selling books is actually quite the complicated matter in some countries. At least in Germany you are not allowed to sell a book at a price of your choice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement) It can be pretty fucking annoying to have these laws in place (they do have their merits, but... that's a completely different debate), but I can understand Amazon not having worked out all the legal issues to go worldwide with this

Eleopteryx 12y ago

Sadly, I don't read nearly enough to justify a $10/mo subscription. (This is something I'd like to improve, but I have ADHD and poor reading comprehension.) This is contrast to a service like Google music that I use nearly every day. I wish there were a cheaper tier with perhaps fewer rentals at a lower price. Based on the current volume of reading that I do, the most I can see myself paying for a subscription is about $3~5/mo.

hugh4life 12y ago

Hmm... how can you tell which books are available for it? I searched for a philosopher I like to read and none of his books had the "unlimited" indicator... so I don't think this is for me.

Nogwater 12y ago
To answer your question: Try searching the Kindle store for something that is in Kindle Unlimited. For example: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text&field-keywords=harry%20potter http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3D... You'll see "$0.00 kindleunlimited" for books that are available. The selection is grim.

tonyblundell 12y ago

Does anyone have any info on how royalties will be calculated yet?

zeroDivisible 12y ago

This offer is only available to US customers - I think it's worth to reflect that one in the title in here.

epaladin 12y ago

Are they making the whole Audible library available through this?

drcode 12y ago
nope... very limited audio selection compared to the audible.com catalog.

Tloewald 12y ago

Given that Amazon royally screws independent authors (not being a publisher, I can't speak to whether they screw larger publishers too) who want to price their works about $9.99 (if you're after a vertical market, Amazon hates you) I can only imagine they'll extend the screwing to authors who won't also make their works available via Unlimited. (How do they screw us? They cap the 70% less download fee royalty at the $9.99 level. In order to make more than $7 (less download fee) per sale, you need to price a book at over $20. So if I sell a $20 book on Amazon, BN, and iBooks -- I get twice as much from BN and iBooks as I do from Amazon. To make the same royalty from Amazon, I need to charge $40, but Amazon won't let me do that. So I pulled my book from Amazon and revenues increased.)

easytiger 12y ago
Do you think indie paper book publishers don't get screwed?
bira 12y ago
Which book?
tjdetwiler 12y ago
I assume it's a technical book? There are very few novels I'd pay even $10 for.
- listic 12y ago
  That's a pity, too, from the writer's point of view.
  - rdl 12y ago
    $7 to the writer for a fiction work is pretty good, IMO. There's probably no way you're going to achieve that otherwise. (I'm part of the "fuck the legacy publishers" camp; I do care about compensating writers and some editors, but in general, I'd rather pay less, read a lot more books, and have writers paid more, and fewer useless NYC publishing house employees playing games and acting as gatekeepers.)

beauzero 12y ago

I think this is good for "candy books" like thrillers, etc. but for books that I want to keep...no. I don't care as much about movies but for books...this is not for me.

knerd1 12y ago

What does this mean for oyster?

msoad 12y ago

I mostly read software and technical books. None of the books I am interested in is in the collection. Maybe the improve the collection later, but for now it's cheaper to buy for me.

baddox 12y ago

It looks like I was incorrect when I predicted that the ebooks would only be available on true Kindle devices (and not for example the Kindle app on iPad). Unfortunately it looks like the Lending Library (which comes with Prime membership) still only works on true Kindle devices. I wonder if this is a licensing issue, or just a deliberate choice on Amazon's part. http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1000739811 http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1000739811

samirmenon 12y ago

Just as an alternative, the NYPL (which is the New York City public library system) allows you to get a library card, and browse from their online ebook collection, as long as you are a resident of New York state. It's a bit of an annoying process, but their large selection makes it worth it. http://www.nypl.org/help/library-card http://www.nypl.org/help/library-card

cnaut 12y ago

This is also interesting from the cloud storage perspective. Amazon is slowly making personal cloud storage almost irrelevant by providing all these subscription streaming services. You don't event have to digitally own something anymore you just rent it and stream it from the cloud. No need to back up the majority of the files you have.

grn 12y ago

It looks really great! So bad it isn't available in Poland. Does anyone know when they will expand to other countries?

api 12y ago

I notice few commenters have brought up the obvious deflationary pressure being brought to bear against authors and publishers here. The same thing has occurred in music and film. In the future is art and literature going to once again be the exclusive province of either those who have taken a implicit vow of poverty or the independently wealthy? Are we seeing the end of the era when a person could actively earn a living doing these things?

WalterBright 12y ago

It seems that the debut of $10/mo Kindle Unlimited was accompanied by the demise of the one per month free Kindle lending library for Prime customers.

geoelectric 12y ago
Where did you see that? The KLL page is still up and accepting Prime memberships, and the Kindle Select (author program behind KU and KLL) terms are clear that authors can opt their books into or out of either or both. Edit: I do notice that the website doesn't display the KLL option for me on eligible books, but I assume that's because my KU subscription enables less restrictive access to the same book.
- WalterBright 12y ago
  My books which were formerly enrolled in Kindle Select are no longer. They are now in Kindle Unlimited. I didn't change anything.
WalterBright 12y ago
It seems I'm wrong about that. Apologies.

ghshephard 12y ago

Perhaps my reading behavior is atypical - but "Hyperion", "I Robot", "Ringworld", "Stranger in a Strange Land", "Dune" - none of the books I read were in the Kindle Unlimited List, and they were all in the Vancouver Public Library. I love the concept - but I need at least a 50% hit rate on the books I read before i'll be willing to pay $120/year to use it.

phaus 12y ago

I think Amazon's always done a pretty good job of rolling out new services, but this is a train wreck. About 3 minutes after I signed up for the free trial, I cancelled it. 99% of the books are the same type of low-quality, spammy nonsense that I was already getting free through Prime. I was hoping for something along the lines of Safari Books, only with a much wider range of categories. As hard as it might be to imagine, the selection of books here is far far worse than Netflix's selection of movies. That's pretty fucking sad.

gcb0 12y ago
this is the first comment in this thread that is not predicting the future. there is some 200 i just scrolled past above. yeah, amazon prime content is anything but prime. odd seasons of old series. movies that even late night open tv is embarrassed of showing, and now teen romances.

wiradikusuma 12y ago

Let say I'm not in the US, what are my options if I'm interested to subscribe? Will VPN work?