7 ms·

Interesting ... does this do any kind of store and forward or relaying? Say I send a message to a friend who happens to be out of range, but there was another G

Interesting ... does this do any kind of store and forward or relaying? Say I send a message to a friend who happens to be out of range, but there was another GoTenna user who neither of us know, but who is in range of us both, will it relay the message via this 3rd party (encrypted) or is it purely a direct connection between sender --> receiver?

tijs 12y ago
from the fAQs i gather that it sends from one gotenna to one or more recipient gotennas only: "Your smartphone will send the message to your goTenna, which will then shoot it out, via long-range radio waves, to the intended goTenna(s). At the other end, the exact same thing happens, in reverse: the recipient goTenna sends your message over BTLE to the smartphone app its paired with." https://gotenna.myshopify.com/pages/faqs https://gotenna.myshopify.com/pages/faqs building an ad-hoc network with these things would be kind of cool though. DIY city networks anyone...
- daniper 12y ago
  goTenna is an ad hoc reconfigurable network in that you can create your own network (1:1; groups, 1:all; all:1) but we can't currently mesh due to FCC regulations. So we went with long-range instead, since meshing is most useful in dense, short-range situations. We're on it though... ;)
  - sitkack 12y ago
    This could be earth changingly huge if you open source your designs and make one with wifi/ethernet. Store and forward push to talk messages. You could charge for access to internet side of the store and forward system. Maybe attach cryptocurrency to the messages to pay for routing across the POPs. Are you using the TI chips?
    - daniper 12y ago
      The platform possibilities are endless. Our dev kits will be ready soon: http://bit.ly/1oRwBkI http://bit.ly/1oRwBkI
UweSchmidt 12y ago
For now the chances of finding a third GoTenna user is quite low. In the future though this could be an alternative private Internet. A BitTorrent client could be a hit.
- chrisBob 12y ago
  I think you are over estimating the bandwidth involved. They don't state much about the wireless protocol, but I am betting you don't want to send much more than a text message to get that range.
  - lighthazard 12y ago
    > via long-range radio waves Which means that, no, they probably can't do seriously large amounts of data, but a picture (and definitely texting) can be sent through radio waves without much data retention issues.
  - daniper 12y ago
    goTenna's transmission rate goes up to 19,200 baud
- p4bl0 12y ago
  Have you heard of https://projectmeshnet.org/ https://projectmeshnet.org/ ?
decktech 12y ago
As I understand it (I am in the outer gotenna circle) it will do some sort of store and forward mesh network-y thing.
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  Not at these frequencies. It's prohibited by the FCC. See some explanations from an insider above.
daniper 12y ago
We want to do that, but FCC regulations don't enable meshing (currently) on the bands we're using (151-154 MHz, aka the MURS band). We considered releasing a 900 MHz device that the FCC allows to mesh but then you only get, if you're lucky, up to 0.5 km range and it has to be line-of-sight. So we went with MURS because you can get greater range and don't have to be line-of-sight; the propagation characteristics are better down at MURS. Also, when we asked 1000 people (including testers) what they preferred -- a long-range MURS device or a short-range meshing device -- about 8 of 10 picked the former. So that's why the goTenna device you see today is our first release!
- jrockway 12y ago
  How often are you getting non-line-of-sight propagation with MURS?
  - daniper 12y ago
    Most of the time. We live in NYC and have gotten anywhere from 0.5 mile to 3.5 miles range here, depending what part of the city you're in. There's nearly no such thing as LOS in a city unless, say, you're in a skyscraper ;)
    - jrockway 12y ago
      Ah, I'm just surprised that buildings ended up mattering when you were deciding between 150MHz or 900MHz. While people like to complain about the frequency getting higher and propagation dropping off (especially related to 2.4GHz and 5GHz wifi), I haven't found a good paper that guarantees that's the case. Anecdotally, I can receive a 5GHz signal in my office in Manhattan from a radar in Floyd Bennett Field, 12 miles away, with buildings in the way. Similarly, inside my apartment, I have much better luck with 440MHz radio communication than 144MHz communication. (Ground floor, so not that great either way.) Being limited to 4W EIRP in the 900MHz ISM band probably played more of a role? Anyway, you might want to find these guys: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7981431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7981431 The combination of your product with their technology could be quite interesting. Also, follow up question: does your protocol attempt to recover signals from below the noise floor?

tijs 12y ago

from the fAQs i gather that it sends from one gotenna to one or more recipient gotennas only: "Your smartphone will send the message to your goTenna, which will then shoot it out, via long-range radio waves, to the intended goTenna(s). At the other end, the exact same thing happens, in reverse: the recipient goTenna sends your message over BTLE to the smartphone app its paired with." https://gotenna.myshopify.com/pages/faqs https://gotenna.myshopify.com/pages/faqs building an ad-hoc network with these things would be kind of cool though. DIY city networks anyone...

daniper 12y ago
goTenna is an ad hoc reconfigurable network in that you can create your own network (1:1; groups, 1:all; all:1) but we can't currently mesh due to FCC regulations. So we went with long-range instead, since meshing is most useful in dense, short-range situations. We're on it though... ;)
- sitkack 12y ago
  This could be earth changingly huge if you open source your designs and make one with wifi/ethernet. Store and forward push to talk messages. You could charge for access to internet side of the store and forward system. Maybe attach cryptocurrency to the messages to pay for routing across the POPs. Are you using the TI chips?
  - daniper 12y ago
    The platform possibilities are endless. Our dev kits will be ready soon: http://bit.ly/1oRwBkI http://bit.ly/1oRwBkI

UweSchmidt 12y ago

For now the chances of finding a third GoTenna user is quite low. In the future though this could be an alternative private Internet. A BitTorrent client could be a hit.

chrisBob 12y ago
I think you are over estimating the bandwidth involved. They don't state much about the wireless protocol, but I am betting you don't want to send much more than a text message to get that range.
- lighthazard 12y ago
  > via long-range radio waves Which means that, no, they probably can't do seriously large amounts of data, but a picture (and definitely texting) can be sent through radio waves without much data retention issues.
- daniper 12y ago
  goTenna's transmission rate goes up to 19,200 baud
p4bl0 12y ago
Have you heard of https://projectmeshnet.org/ https://projectmeshnet.org/ ?

decktech 12y ago

As I understand it (I am in the outer gotenna circle) it will do some sort of store and forward mesh network-y thing.

robotresearcher 12y ago
Not at these frequencies. It's prohibited by the FCC. See some explanations from an insider above.

daniper 12y ago

We want to do that, but FCC regulations don't enable meshing (currently) on the bands we're using (151-154 MHz, aka the MURS band). We considered releasing a 900 MHz device that the FCC allows to mesh but then you only get, if you're lucky, up to 0.5 km range and it has to be line-of-sight. So we went with MURS because you can get greater range and don't have to be line-of-sight; the propagation characteristics are better down at MURS. Also, when we asked 1000 people (including testers) what they preferred -- a long-range MURS device or a short-range meshing device -- about 8 of 10 picked the former. So that's why the goTenna device you see today is our first release!

jrockway 12y ago
How often are you getting non-line-of-sight propagation with MURS?
- daniper 12y ago
  Most of the time. We live in NYC and have gotten anywhere from 0.5 mile to 3.5 miles range here, depending what part of the city you're in. There's nearly no such thing as LOS in a city unless, say, you're in a skyscraper ;)
  - jrockway 12y ago
    Ah, I'm just surprised that buildings ended up mattering when you were deciding between 150MHz or 900MHz. While people like to complain about the frequency getting higher and propagation dropping off (especially related to 2.4GHz and 5GHz wifi), I haven't found a good paper that guarantees that's the case. Anecdotally, I can receive a 5GHz signal in my office in Manhattan from a radar in Floyd Bennett Field, 12 miles away, with buildings in the way. Similarly, inside my apartment, I have much better luck with 440MHz radio communication than 144MHz communication. (Ground floor, so not that great either way.) Being limited to 4W EIRP in the 900MHz ISM band probably played more of a role? Anyway, you might want to find these guys: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7981431 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7981431 The combination of your product with their technology could be quite interesting. Also, follow up question: does your protocol attempt to recover signals from below the noise floor?