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Interfax said it was shot down. Russia - via their ambassador at the United Nations - denied involvement already. Let's hope this plane won't be the Franz Ferd

Interfax said it was shot down. Russia - via their ambassador at the United Nations - denied involvement already. Let's hope this plane won't be the Franz Ferdinand 100 years later. Edit: I am talking about the US-Russian relationship deteriorating because of the (blamed) intent, not the number of casualties or the strength of the Malaysian army. Edit 2: Thanks for the links on previous situations like this. Reassuring.

deleted 12y ago
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levosmetalo 12y ago
> Let's hope this plane won't be the Franz Ferdinand 100 years later. Don't worry. Malaysia can join forces with Thailand, and then together attack all of their neighbours, but that would hardly make an impact to the "world order".
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  You could say the same thing about Austria going after Serbia.
  - levosmetalo 12y ago
    No, it was not only Austria going after Serbia, but Austria and Germany together going after all of their neighbours, including Serbia, France, Russia, Belgium, ...
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      Not until Russia started to mobilize to defend Serbia. Australia versus Serbia would've been a minor conflict if it weren't for the various defensive agreements the Great Powers had with smaller states.
      - levosmetalo 12y ago
        If we were to be pedantic here, Austria was losing badly against Serbia for more then a year. At that time it was clear that Austria did not have a standing chance to win against Serbia in any meaningful way without extensive help from other countries, so the conflict couldn't really be qualified as minor. The things started to change when German army joined with Austrian forces in attack to Serbia, and Bulgaria decided to step in and stab Serbia from behind, but at this point the conflict was already far from "minor" and "local".
saraid216 12y ago
> Let's hope this plane won't be the Franz Ferdinand 100 years later. I don't see how that's remotely possible.
- sspiff 12y ago
  May depend on whose citizens were on the plan, and who thinks they can benefit from joining in on the fun. I can't think of any nation powerful enough to rival Russia wanting to risk this level of conflict today though.
pjc50 12y ago
It's overwhelmingly likely to have been shot down by "Ukrainian rebels", who are Russian-backed. It's not going to be the end of the world unless someone very high profile was on board, but it will further worsen relations with Russia. Malaysia isn't exactly a nuclear superpower. A US airliner would be a lot closer to end of the world territory. Number of civilian casualties is roughly comparable to those in the past few weeks in Gaza.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- slg 12y ago
  >Number of civilian casualties is roughly comparable to those in the past few weeks in Gaza. That comparison is interesting. What is it about planes that draws so much attention when something like this happens? It is barely news when a couple hundred civilians die on the ground in a war zone, but put the same civilians in the air and the whole world pays attention. EDIT: Some people have mentioned that Gaza is all over the news but I would make the argument that the civilian casualties aren't what is making news. What is making news is the eruption of hostilities in the first place. For example, compare the coverage of Gaza to Iraq, Ukraine, etc. There have been several times more civilian casualties in numerous other active war zones this month, but they aren't new conflicts so news agencies aren't focusing on them.
  - happyscrappy 12y ago
    Because the passengers on that plane were not shelling a country that they vow to destroy even if it kills all their children.
  - kevinchen 12y ago
    People are afraid of flying because they aren't in control. When you or someone you can see is behind the wheel, you have more control, which makes you feel safer (even though having that control makes things more dangerous).
    - 12y ago
spuiszis 12y ago
This also reminds me of the the sinking of the Lusitania by German u-boats in WWI. http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/world-war-i/resources/theodore-roosevelt-sinking-lusitania-1915 http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/world-war-i/reso...

deleted 12y ago

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levosmetalo 12y ago

> Let's hope this plane won't be the Franz Ferdinand 100 years later. Don't worry. Malaysia can join forces with Thailand, and then together attack all of their neighbours, but that would hardly make an impact to the "world order".

ceejayoz 12y ago
You could say the same thing about Austria going after Serbia.
- levosmetalo 12y ago
  No, it was not only Austria going after Serbia, but Austria and Germany together going after all of their neighbours, including Serbia, France, Russia, Belgium, ...
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    Not until Russia started to mobilize to defend Serbia. Australia versus Serbia would've been a minor conflict if it weren't for the various defensive agreements the Great Powers had with smaller states.
    - levosmetalo 12y ago
      If we were to be pedantic here, Austria was losing badly against Serbia for more then a year. At that time it was clear that Austria did not have a standing chance to win against Serbia in any meaningful way without extensive help from other countries, so the conflict couldn't really be qualified as minor. The things started to change when German army joined with Austrian forces in attack to Serbia, and Bulgaria decided to step in and stab Serbia from behind, but at this point the conflict was already far from "minor" and "local".

saraid216 12y ago

> Let's hope this plane won't be the Franz Ferdinand 100 years later. I don't see how that's remotely possible.

sspiff 12y ago
May depend on whose citizens were on the plan, and who thinks they can benefit from joining in on the fun. I can't think of any nation powerful enough to rival Russia wanting to risk this level of conflict today though.

pjc50 12y ago

It's overwhelmingly likely to have been shot down by "Ukrainian rebels", who are Russian-backed. It's not going to be the end of the world unless someone very high profile was on board, but it will further worsen relations with Russia. Malaysia isn't exactly a nuclear superpower. A US airliner would be a lot closer to end of the world territory. Number of civilian casualties is roughly comparable to those in the past few weeks in Gaza.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
slg 12y ago
>Number of civilian casualties is roughly comparable to those in the past few weeks in Gaza. That comparison is interesting. What is it about planes that draws so much attention when something like this happens? It is barely news when a couple hundred civilians die on the ground in a war zone, but put the same civilians in the air and the whole world pays attention. EDIT: Some people have mentioned that Gaza is all over the news but I would make the argument that the civilian casualties aren't what is making news. What is making news is the eruption of hostilities in the first place. For example, compare the coverage of Gaza to Iraq, Ukraine, etc. There have been several times more civilian casualties in numerous other active war zones this month, but they aren't new conflicts so news agencies aren't focusing on them.
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  Because the passengers on that plane were not shelling a country that they vow to destroy even if it kills all their children.
- kevinchen 12y ago
  People are afraid of flying because they aren't in control. When you or someone you can see is behind the wheel, you have more control, which makes you feel safer (even though having that control makes things more dangerous).
  - 12y ago

spuiszis 12y ago

This also reminds me of the the sinking of the Lusitania by German u-boats in WWI. http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/world-war-i/resources/theodore-roosevelt-sinking-lusitania-1915 http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/world-war-i/reso...