10 ms·

Lots of people in this thread are talking about this being scary for authors. When I was a kid, I got to read a ton of books any time I wanted. I got them at th

by JunkDNA 12y ago

Lots of people in this thread are talking about this being scary for authors. When I was a kid, I got to read a ton of books any time I wanted. I got them at this place called a "library" where they let people come in and take books home with them to read for free. People have always had the option to read books without buying them. In those days, going to the library was effectively the same effort as going to a book store. In fact, it was more convenient for my family. We happened to live a few blocks from the library and didn't need to drive across town to the mall to get books in dingy little B. Dalton bookstore. I will grant that the economics in the eBook situation are dramatically different than with physical books, but I really wonder how different they really are. Local libraries already lend ebooks as well. I'm not sure why more people don't take advantage of that.

wgeorgecook 12y ago
I was thinking this sounds strangely like a library card you pay $120 a year for.
- oh_sigh 12y ago
  Well, even if you don't pay anything for a library card up front, most people pay taxes that support their local libraries, so it isn't necessarily free.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  I'm a digital nomad with no fixed address (currently staying with my brother in IL, soon on to Florida to live with family down there). I can't get a library card, because I don't have mail show up at any residence I stay at. $120 for all I can eat books? Take My Money.
- dan_bk 12y ago
  I was thinking more than 1 person must be thinking this sounds strangely like an invitation for a fat torrent.
- HelloMcFly 12y ago
  For many, libraries just aren't convenient. Even if the location itself is convenient, navigating the the eBook collection might not be. Even if navigating the eBook collection is convenient, there is often (in my admittedly limited experience) a wait time for the books I'm interested in. Perhaps there are some who would admonish me for sticking almost exclusively to eBooks, or for my laser focus on What I Want rather than other available options. Whatever, let them. The point is that time and convenience are worth money to me, and many others. If my Library let me donate $120 to them annually with the ability to borrow from an eBook collection of 500,000+ without having to go to a local branch or waiting for someone to "return" the digital file then I'd write the check tomorrow. I just get so tired of everyone on social media so smugly pointing out that libraries exist and have books you can borrow for free. Yeah, we get it, but many libraries don't provide the service I'm (and others, it seems) looking for. I have the means to be flexible in my selection of service/product providers, and I choose to spend money on those that match my habits and preferences.
  - a_bonobo 12y ago
    >If my Library let me donate $120 to them annually with the ability to borrow from an eBook collection of 500,000+ without having to go to a local branch or waiting for someone to "return" the digital file then I'd write the check tomorrow. My university's library sometimes has this feature. In my experience it's more delimited by the availability of ebooks beyond PDFs (especially scientific publishers only hand out PDFs, no mobis/ePubs at all) and a good measure of paranoia. Currently, I can read the uni-library's ebooks only using Adobe's 'Digital Editions', which doesn't have a Linux client, and doesn't want to communicate with my Kindle, even if the file in question is an ePub. (Of course with the right plugin Calibre can remove the DRM making the whole security theatre completely unnecessary)
- lost_name 12y ago
  You might be surprised to hear that some libraries have an ebook section. My hometown has a "digital library" that it shares with other libraries in the region. It works the same as a regular book (only one person per copy) but you can pick it up on your Kindle or other appropriate device.
chubot 12y ago
I'm a regular user of the local library, but I notice that most people in my "class" (i.e. tech people earning a lot) don't go there. It's easier to buy it on your Kindle for $10-$15 than to make a trip to the library. I'm gonna be a jerk and say that most people also like to hang out in expensive coffee shops with other members of their class, and not in the library where there are lots of poor people. It's a little bit like grocery stores... you can often get a better deal if you go to another neighborhood. But most people want to hang out with their peers in the nice grocery store. The savings isn't worth the trip either.
- blhack 12y ago
  A lot of libraries are starting hackerspaces. You should see if you can mentor at one. I mentor at a program at my library every week, and it's been really awesome.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    I would love to see a national scale project to convert libraries to hackerspaces/coworking spaces.. Digital media should still be available (Kindles, iPads, etc with access to libraries through Amazon for copyright material and Library Of Congress/Internet Archive for public domain material), but its time they evolve.
    - dublinben 12y ago
      You don't need a national scale project. You can start with your own, local library. Help make it into the best library around, and others will follow.
      - toomuchtodo 12y ago
        Half agree. Use a local library as the prototype, document how you did it and the results, and then scale up with that experience.
        12y ago
laurenbee 12y ago
> Local libraries already lend ebooks as well. I'm not sure why more people don't take advantage of that. One would think that since ebooks are digital, any number of people could borrow the same book at once from a library. Alas, that is not the case. Just like libraries might only have one or two physical copies of a book, they might only have one or two copies of an ebook available to lend as well. If you want to borrow a new release, you might end up on a lengthy wait list. Additionally, if you borrow from a library, you miss out on a ton of books (especially self-published books). As a reader, I'm excited about the prospect of Kindle Unlimited. As an author who self-publishes on Amazon, I am apprehensive (though the compensation for my books that have been borrowed with Prime has seemed fair so far).
- mjt0229 12y ago
  This is exactly right. Also, the selection of ebooks at my local library is terrible. I always look for an ebook first, but I've never yet found an ebook version of a book I actually wanted to read in my library's catalog.
- WalterBright 12y ago
  I'm self-published on Amazon, and I'll be happy to make them available on this new service.
anigbrowl 12y ago
When I was a kid I got books from the library too. Then, like most people who enjoy reading, I began buying books of my own. Libraries are fine when you just want to find some books you haven't read before but owning your own books has significant advantages, which I hope need not be restated here. How this goes for authors depends on how Amazon are purchasing the rights to the ebooks. Having seen what streaming has done to music revenue I can't say I'm too optimistic about this. Some authors will do fantastically well, of course, but the much larger number of people who make a modest income from writing may well see it shrink drastically. The problem is that this doesn't necessarily improve things for consumers. Super-successful authors are often producers of lowest-common-denominator material. If high quality writers who appeal to a much smaller audience are no longer able to support themselves by writing, then they either move downmarket or take up another line of work, which results is a loss of quality for consumers. The problem with streaming is that proponents treat creative output like a commodity and then point to the laws of supply and demand to justify economic upheaval. But pure supply and demand only applies in cases of perfect competition, where commodity goods are actually perfect substitutes; I have no particular reason to buy oil/ gravel/ corn from supplier X if supplier Y can deliver identical goods at a lower price. This is not the case for creative works. PS I don't mean this as a dig against Amazon in particular, but there is a potential monopsony problem. I worry about this a bit less with Netflix because the economics of film production and distribution are enormously different than for other media, and Netflix is more like a peer among distributors.
- psykotic 12y ago
  > owning your own books has significant advantages, which I hope need not be restated here. I had to get rid of several hundred of my books years ago when I went traveling. It was tough since I had a lot of attachment to my physical books, but upon examination I realized there were few advantages and in my case many disadvantages. Exceptions are books you habitually reread or reference, but most novels fail that test.
  - WalterBright 12y ago
    I have several thousand books. Many I've cut & scanned into pdf's. It is just marvelous to be able to take with me that library when I travel - I never lack for something to browse. I no longer have to read those wretched in-flight magazines. My bookshelves are still crammed with books, but they've all got a date with the slicer! Mua-ha-ha-ha-haaaa! BTW, for examples of books I've cut & scanned, see http://www.generalatomic.com http://www.generalatomic.com (yes, I either acquired permission to post them or they are public domain).
learnist_13 12y ago
I've always used Safari Books Online. I get every technical book I could imagine, and the company where I work pays for it. Amazon unlimited seems good for the people that enjoy fiction, but I don't think they will be able to compete on the technical stuff.
- troymc 12y ago
  My local library (Burnaby Public Library) lets me access Safari Books Online using my library ID and I agree: it's awesome!
ctdonath 12y ago
[Going to a library] was more convenient for my family. We happened to live a few blocks from the library and didn't need to drive across town to the mall to get books in dingy little B. Dalton bookstore. Yup. Remember that well. "Bookstores" were tiny places with fewer books than we had at home. If you really wanted a selection, you'd go to the library. Then came B&N, Borders, etc with vast holdings on par with the local library (or bigger), and - better yet - newer content: everything was new & content turnover was frequent, as contrasted with the library which was pretty much stuck with what well-thumbed old volumes they had. In-store coffeeshops just clinched the attraction. Local libraries already lend ebooks as well. I'm not sure why more people don't take advantage of that. Mostly that it's just a new option that hasn't normalized yet. 'til recently, the process was obnoxious enough that physical media and/or a CC# made it much easier to get what you wanted. I'm using Hoopla a lot now; it's improving fast but hasn't quite reached the UX needed for normalization.
VLM 12y ago
"Local libraries already lend ebooks as well." Have you ever tried that? Limited selection and weird rules like only certain devices and complicated account creation and then you only get to "keep" the ebook for 2 weeks or whatever. I can get "free" audiobooks the same way. Its sadly easier to borrow the physical CDs and rip them. Authors can make money by people who get gifts, and are in a hurry, or want reference tomes. I can read Stross's new novel after waiting in line just four or so months from now for free at my local library... Ah, who cares, its like an expensive lunch to just buy the ebook so I'll do that instead and downloaded it on release date. Another method is gifts. Nobody I know goes to bookstores anymore other than to buy gifts. We don't buy books for ourselves; we do buy gifts which happen to be books. Like the hallmark holiday card business, I don't buy myself Christmas cards, and thats OK, buy some and send them to other people. If you're not in the "gift" "reference" or "trendy in a hurry" markets, you're in big trouble.
fekberg 12y ago
I rather have lots of people reading my book, getting less royalty per person, than having less people reading my book getting more royalties. I write because I want to share my ideas and point of views, not because I care about the money. It's nice though when someone pays the 5 EUR it costs, that keeps me awake with the coffee I can buy for the money.
gcb0 12y ago
> free paid by taxes. nothing is free.
- sysop073 12y ago
  The use of it is free. It costs you no more to use the service than it would to not use it
pango 12y ago
The biggest concern for me actually is that in making this move, amazon is putting itself in direct competition with libraries' ebook/audiobook lending services. Many of those even use the kindle network! Will amazon continue to allow books to reach those services as soon after release? Do they have the power to stop it in the first place? I think it will be interesting to see how the company, which it is clear has a lot of leverage in the book publishing community, handles competing with a free alternative.

by JunkDNA 12y ago

wgeorgecook 12y ago

I was thinking this sounds strangely like a library card you pay $120 a year for.

oh_sigh 12y ago
Well, even if you don't pay anything for a library card up front, most people pay taxes that support their local libraries, so it isn't necessarily free.
toomuchtodo 12y ago
I'm a digital nomad with no fixed address (currently staying with my brother in IL, soon on to Florida to live with family down there). I can't get a library card, because I don't have mail show up at any residence I stay at. $120 for all I can eat books? Take My Money.
dan_bk 12y ago
I was thinking more than 1 person must be thinking this sounds strangely like an invitation for a fat torrent.
HelloMcFly 12y ago
For many, libraries just aren't convenient. Even if the location itself is convenient, navigating the the eBook collection might not be. Even if navigating the eBook collection is convenient, there is often (in my admittedly limited experience) a wait time for the books I'm interested in. Perhaps there are some who would admonish me for sticking almost exclusively to eBooks, or for my laser focus on What I Want rather than other available options. Whatever, let them. The point is that time and convenience are worth money to me, and many others. If my Library let me donate $120 to them annually with the ability to borrow from an eBook collection of 500,000+ without having to go to a local branch or waiting for someone to "return" the digital file then I'd write the check tomorrow. I just get so tired of everyone on social media so smugly pointing out that libraries exist and have books you can borrow for free. Yeah, we get it, but many libraries don't provide the service I'm (and others, it seems) looking for. I have the means to be flexible in my selection of service/product providers, and I choose to spend money on those that match my habits and preferences.
- a_bonobo 12y ago
  >If my Library let me donate $120 to them annually with the ability to borrow from an eBook collection of 500,000+ without having to go to a local branch or waiting for someone to "return" the digital file then I'd write the check tomorrow. My university's library sometimes has this feature. In my experience it's more delimited by the availability of ebooks beyond PDFs (especially scientific publishers only hand out PDFs, no mobis/ePubs at all) and a good measure of paranoia. Currently, I can read the uni-library's ebooks only using Adobe's 'Digital Editions', which doesn't have a Linux client, and doesn't want to communicate with my Kindle, even if the file in question is an ePub. (Of course with the right plugin Calibre can remove the DRM making the whole security theatre completely unnecessary)
lost_name 12y ago
You might be surprised to hear that some libraries have an ebook section. My hometown has a "digital library" that it shares with other libraries in the region. It works the same as a regular book (only one person per copy) but you can pick it up on your Kindle or other appropriate device.

chubot 12y ago

I'm a regular user of the local library, but I notice that most people in my "class" (i.e. tech people earning a lot) don't go there. It's easier to buy it on your Kindle for $10-$15 than to make a trip to the library. I'm gonna be a jerk and say that most people also like to hang out in expensive coffee shops with other members of their class, and not in the library where there are lots of poor people. It's a little bit like grocery stores... you can often get a better deal if you go to another neighborhood. But most people want to hang out with their peers in the nice grocery store. The savings isn't worth the trip either.

blhack 12y ago
A lot of libraries are starting hackerspaces. You should see if you can mentor at one. I mentor at a program at my library every week, and it's been really awesome.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  I would love to see a national scale project to convert libraries to hackerspaces/coworking spaces.. Digital media should still be available (Kindles, iPads, etc with access to libraries through Amazon for copyright material and Library Of Congress/Internet Archive for public domain material), but its time they evolve.
  - dublinben 12y ago
    You don't need a national scale project. You can start with your own, local library. Help make it into the best library around, and others will follow.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      Half agree. Use a local library as the prototype, document how you did it and the results, and then scale up with that experience.
      - 12y ago

laurenbee 12y ago

> Local libraries already lend ebooks as well. I'm not sure why more people don't take advantage of that. One would think that since ebooks are digital, any number of people could borrow the same book at once from a library. Alas, that is not the case. Just like libraries might only have one or two physical copies of a book, they might only have one or two copies of an ebook available to lend as well. If you want to borrow a new release, you might end up on a lengthy wait list. Additionally, if you borrow from a library, you miss out on a ton of books (especially self-published books). As a reader, I'm excited about the prospect of Kindle Unlimited. As an author who self-publishes on Amazon, I am apprehensive (though the compensation for my books that have been borrowed with Prime has seemed fair so far).

mjt0229 12y ago
This is exactly right. Also, the selection of ebooks at my local library is terrible. I always look for an ebook first, but I've never yet found an ebook version of a book I actually wanted to read in my library's catalog.
WalterBright 12y ago
I'm self-published on Amazon, and I'll be happy to make them available on this new service.

anigbrowl 12y ago

When I was a kid I got books from the library too. Then, like most people who enjoy reading, I began buying books of my own. Libraries are fine when you just want to find some books you haven't read before but owning your own books has significant advantages, which I hope need not be restated here. How this goes for authors depends on how Amazon are purchasing the rights to the ebooks. Having seen what streaming has done to music revenue I can't say I'm too optimistic about this. Some authors will do fantastically well, of course, but the much larger number of people who make a modest income from writing may well see it shrink drastically. The problem is that this doesn't necessarily improve things for consumers. Super-successful authors are often producers of lowest-common-denominator material. If high quality writers who appeal to a much smaller audience are no longer able to support themselves by writing, then they either move downmarket or take up another line of work, which results is a loss of quality for consumers. The problem with streaming is that proponents treat creative output like a commodity and then point to the laws of supply and demand to justify economic upheaval. But pure supply and demand only applies in cases of perfect competition, where commodity goods are actually perfect substitutes; I have no particular reason to buy oil/ gravel/ corn from supplier X if supplier Y can deliver identical goods at a lower price. This is not the case for creative works. PS I don't mean this as a dig against Amazon in particular, but there is a potential monopsony problem. I worry about this a bit less with Netflix because the economics of film production and distribution are enormously different than for other media, and Netflix is more like a peer among distributors.

psykotic 12y ago
> owning your own books has significant advantages, which I hope need not be restated here. I had to get rid of several hundred of my books years ago when I went traveling. It was tough since I had a lot of attachment to my physical books, but upon examination I realized there were few advantages and in my case many disadvantages. Exceptions are books you habitually reread or reference, but most novels fail that test.
- WalterBright 12y ago
  I have several thousand books. Many I've cut & scanned into pdf's. It is just marvelous to be able to take with me that library when I travel - I never lack for something to browse. I no longer have to read those wretched in-flight magazines. My bookshelves are still crammed with books, but they've all got a date with the slicer! Mua-ha-ha-ha-haaaa! BTW, for examples of books I've cut & scanned, see http://www.generalatomic.com http://www.generalatomic.com (yes, I either acquired permission to post them or they are public domain).

learnist_13 12y ago

I've always used Safari Books Online. I get every technical book I could imagine, and the company where I work pays for it. Amazon unlimited seems good for the people that enjoy fiction, but I don't think they will be able to compete on the technical stuff.

troymc 12y ago
My local library (Burnaby Public Library) lets me access Safari Books Online using my library ID and I agree: it's awesome!

ctdonath 12y ago

[Going to a library] was more convenient for my family. We happened to live a few blocks from the library and didn't need to drive across town to the mall to get books in dingy little B. Dalton bookstore. Yup. Remember that well. "Bookstores" were tiny places with fewer books than we had at home. If you really wanted a selection, you'd go to the library. Then came B&N, Borders, etc with vast holdings on par with the local library (or bigger), and - better yet - newer content: everything was new & content turnover was frequent, as contrasted with the library which was pretty much stuck with what well-thumbed old volumes they had. In-store coffeeshops just clinched the attraction. Local libraries already lend ebooks as well. I'm not sure why more people don't take advantage of that. Mostly that it's just a new option that hasn't normalized yet. 'til recently, the process was obnoxious enough that physical media and/or a CC# made it much easier to get what you wanted. I'm using Hoopla a lot now; it's improving fast but hasn't quite reached the UX needed for normalization.

VLM 12y ago

"Local libraries already lend ebooks as well." Have you ever tried that? Limited selection and weird rules like only certain devices and complicated account creation and then you only get to "keep" the ebook for 2 weeks or whatever. I can get "free" audiobooks the same way. Its sadly easier to borrow the physical CDs and rip them. Authors can make money by people who get gifts, and are in a hurry, or want reference tomes. I can read Stross's new novel after waiting in line just four or so months from now for free at my local library... Ah, who cares, its like an expensive lunch to just buy the ebook so I'll do that instead and downloaded it on release date. Another method is gifts. Nobody I know goes to bookstores anymore other than to buy gifts. We don't buy books for ourselves; we do buy gifts which happen to be books. Like the hallmark holiday card business, I don't buy myself Christmas cards, and thats OK, buy some and send them to other people. If you're not in the "gift" "reference" or "trendy in a hurry" markets, you're in big trouble.

fekberg 12y ago

I rather have lots of people reading my book, getting less royalty per person, than having less people reading my book getting more royalties. I write because I want to share my ideas and point of views, not because I care about the money. It's nice though when someone pays the 5 EUR it costs, that keeps me awake with the coffee I can buy for the money.

gcb0 12y ago

> free paid by taxes. nothing is free.

sysop073 12y ago
The use of it is free. It costs you no more to use the service than it would to not use it

pango 12y ago

The biggest concern for me actually is that in making this move, amazon is putting itself in direct competition with libraries' ebook/audiobook lending services. Many of those even use the kindle network! Will amazon continue to allow books to reach those services as soon after release? Do they have the power to stop it in the first place? I think it will be interesting to see how the company, which it is clear has a lot of leverage in the book publishing community, handles competing with a free alternative.