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This is so disappointing. I've always really respected Catmull. He has given many presentations and speeches with incredible value. His actions here are, I thi

This is so disappointing. I've always really respected Catmull. He has given many presentations and speeches with incredible value. His actions here are, I think, by definition evil. Decisions made with selfish intent with willful disregard to the negative consequences it has on others. That's my definition at least, everyone has their own. How utterly disappointing. :(

chris_mahan 12y ago
Agreed. I'm reading his book Creativity Inc. right now, and it's chock-full of goodness. Except that now, I question the very motives and integrity of the author, so the whole thing is completely suspect, and I might just not continue reading.
- samstave 12y ago
  I think the thing is that while people can do good things, they can also do really bad/weird things to others when all of their hierarchy of needs is met. I he has money, power, comfort, is top-of-his-game -- then its very easy to really act as though it is a game and his actions only strengthening his position and the position of the system that supports his position (the company). So in his mind, he is just being efficient/business minded/shrewd etc... and doesn't realize he is actually fucking up the lives of others -- he is only seeing it from his own perspective; that he is an effective person making shit-tons of money. Utter lack of compassion/human perspective.
  - chris_mahan 12y ago
    Exactly right. They think it's just a game. Bastards.
  - sitkack 12y ago
    We are all our best when we are a _little_ hungry.
- cookiecaper 12y ago
  We're too fast to discard people in this community. The linked article is heavily editorialized; it doesn't represent anything like even-handed coverage. We should give important figures in our community the benefit of the doubt, and learn how to respectfully disagree with one another. Even if something is illegal, it's not necessarily self-evidently immoral, and Catmull et al easily could've made anti-poaching pacts without the intention of suppressing employee wages. We're only getting one side of the story here: the story of the DOJ, which has its own political interests. And in typical fashion with these highly sensationalized scandals, bullying and shame are deployed to force people into one camp or the other. People are discouraged from finding a middle ground, trying to empathize with both sides, etc. They're told, "X is bad, and Y did X! How can you still act in any reasonable manner toward Y? He must be banished!" We need to be careful and we need to quit feeding our own to the wolves. We need to back off of our hair-trigger. So far, I know of no documentation that shows clear mens rea on the part of Catmull, and even if that is shown, it doesn't mean all of his contributions should be thrown out the door. That's very simple-minded, silly thinking.
  - bsimpson 12y ago
    You've had a handful of very insightful responses in a thread that is otherwise busy sharpening their pitchforks. Thanks for keeping it real. =)
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - shiven 12y ago
    Sorry to invoke Godwin's law here. But now your defense of Catmull is quickly devolving into "What about all the good things Hitler did?".
    - cookiecaper 12y ago
      Do you understand how absolutely absurd it is to compare the perpetrator of one of the world's most expansive genocides to two executives that agreed they wouldn't actively poach each others' employees? Also, what about all the good things Hitler did? I think that's a historical perspective that's often lacking. It can be satisfying to paint people who've committed crimes as Satan incarnate, but that's not realistic, and selling a fantastical version of history as definitive can have serious long-term consequences.
- chaostheory 12y ago
  Just because someone made a mistake, it shouldn't automatically make all of their work 'evil'.
  - bcoates 12y ago
    If someone lies about the things you can check, you should automatically assume the things you can't check are lies too.
  - kabdib 12y ago
    A public apology might be nice. I'm not going to burn my graphics books, but I'm really disappointed with Pixar right now. "This needs to be nipped in the bud." Um, yeah.

chris_mahan 12y ago

Agreed. I'm reading his book Creativity Inc. right now, and it's chock-full of goodness. Except that now, I question the very motives and integrity of the author, so the whole thing is completely suspect, and I might just not continue reading.

samstave 12y ago
I think the thing is that while people can do good things, they can also do really bad/weird things to others when all of their hierarchy of needs is met. I he has money, power, comfort, is top-of-his-game -- then its very easy to really act as though it is a game and his actions only strengthening his position and the position of the system that supports his position (the company). So in his mind, he is just being efficient/business minded/shrewd etc... and doesn't realize he is actually fucking up the lives of others -- he is only seeing it from his own perspective; that he is an effective person making shit-tons of money. Utter lack of compassion/human perspective.
- chris_mahan 12y ago
  Exactly right. They think it's just a game. Bastards.
- sitkack 12y ago
  We are all our best when we are a _little_ hungry.
cookiecaper 12y ago
We're too fast to discard people in this community. The linked article is heavily editorialized; it doesn't represent anything like even-handed coverage. We should give important figures in our community the benefit of the doubt, and learn how to respectfully disagree with one another. Even if something is illegal, it's not necessarily self-evidently immoral, and Catmull et al easily could've made anti-poaching pacts without the intention of suppressing employee wages. We're only getting one side of the story here: the story of the DOJ, which has its own political interests. And in typical fashion with these highly sensationalized scandals, bullying and shame are deployed to force people into one camp or the other. People are discouraged from finding a middle ground, trying to empathize with both sides, etc. They're told, "X is bad, and Y did X! How can you still act in any reasonable manner toward Y? He must be banished!" We need to be careful and we need to quit feeding our own to the wolves. We need to back off of our hair-trigger. So far, I know of no documentation that shows clear mens rea on the part of Catmull, and even if that is shown, it doesn't mean all of his contributions should be thrown out the door. That's very simple-minded, silly thinking.
- bsimpson 12y ago
  You've had a handful of very insightful responses in a thread that is otherwise busy sharpening their pitchforks. Thanks for keeping it real. =)
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- shiven 12y ago
  Sorry to invoke Godwin's law here. But now your defense of Catmull is quickly devolving into "What about all the good things Hitler did?".
  - cookiecaper 12y ago
    Do you understand how absolutely absurd it is to compare the perpetrator of one of the world's most expansive genocides to two executives that agreed they wouldn't actively poach each others' employees? Also, what about all the good things Hitler did? I think that's a historical perspective that's often lacking. It can be satisfying to paint people who've committed crimes as Satan incarnate, but that's not realistic, and selling a fantastical version of history as definitive can have serious long-term consequences.
chaostheory 12y ago
Just because someone made a mistake, it shouldn't automatically make all of their work 'evil'.
- bcoates 12y ago
  If someone lies about the things you can check, you should automatically assume the things you can't check are lies too.
- kabdib 12y ago
  A public apology might be nice. I'm not going to burn my graphics books, but I'm really disappointed with Pixar right now. "This needs to be nipped in the bud." Um, yeah.