12 ms·

This is a blog post that’s incredibly confusing and painful for me to write

dang 12y ago
Since the post has no title to revert to, we'll use the first sentence instead. The submitted title ("Co-founder of Cards Against Humanity Accused of Rape"), besides being editorialized, was also arguably misleading, since it suggests that the post consists of the accusation. Commenters: Please follow the HN guidelines and ensure that your comments are substantive and civil.
- daurnimator 12y ago
  The first sentence doesn't provide any context, or idea of the content. Could you leave something in there about who wrote it?
  - dang 12y ago
    That's a reasonable request. But HN's title policy is designed to emphasize content more and personalities less. We usually edit author names out of titles even when they're in the original. It isn't hard to figure out who wrote most posts and surely few people are in doubt about this one. We often use the first sentence of a post as a replacement title when the article title itself is misleading or linkbait, so using it here isn't really a stretch.
giarc 12y ago
If any part of that was traumatic for her, I am sincerely sorry, and I wish we would have had a chance to address it privately. Can't apologizing like this be considered as an admission of guilt? Or is that what Hollywood/TV would like me to believe? EDIT - I didn't mean admitting guilt in terms of the law, but how a lawyer would spin it. Think of what a good lawyer could do with this quote. Max admits that part of the relationship could have been "traumatic for her" and then apologizes for it and then wishes he could have spoken in private.
- percentcer 12y ago
  I think the word you're looking for is compassion
- GeorgeOrr 12y ago
  Do you mean legally? I hope not. It sounds like he's feeling concerned for a person he once knew. Being confused/disturbed by the accusation didn't prevent him from being concerned. It would suck if that was used against him legally.
- mhurron 12y ago
  Really? Apologizing for not returning calls or having an awkward hookup in college would be an admission of rape? Assuming this account is accurate that is. Which is actually the whole problem here. There is no proof on either side to say one is correct and the other not. So basically the whole thing will or will not hurt this guy, CAH and/or the accuser in a way that it should or should not have based entirely on who wants to believe what.
- zem 12y ago
  canada actually has an "apology act" specifically to address that
vezzy-fnord 12y ago
We removed all of the “rape” jokes from Cards Against Humanity years ago. We’ll continue to use the game as best we can to “punch up” and not “punch down.” Is this the same Cards Against Humanity that I'm thinking of? Because I'm pretty sure that game "punches down" quite hard.
- liquidise 12y ago
  It depends on the group of players in my experience. The cards definitely can be insulting if played in that manner. They can also be hilarious and disconnected to any specific person, Glenn Beck notwithstanding.
  - vezzy-fnord 12y ago
    Right, but the decision to remove rape jokes, given all the obscene content related to far more severe acts (including genocide), is just so arbitrary it's hilarious.
- boucher 12y ago
  Although I realize that on some level it's just not my kind of humor, I honestly think this game is pretty disgusting and I'm surprised by how popular it is.
  - meowface 12y ago
    I've actually never met someone who was offended or disgusted by it, excluding those who are socially conservative or religious. That may also be due to the fact that I'm still in the 18-25 age group though.
    - colanderman 12y ago
      I'm neither socially conservative nor religious nor over 30, yet I think it's horse shit. It's like everything I hate about Reddit distilled into a deck of cards. Somehow all my friends love it; I personally don't care to imagine midgets ejaculating into dismembered bodies regardless of the context. I guess I just don't understand the humor of shock. I usually find an excuse to leave a party sooner after CAH gets pulled out, whether I'm roped into playing it or not. Maybe that makes me a loser, whatever.
eykanal 12y ago
While it's very chivalrous of him to not want to lawyer up, what he's describing is libel, pure and simple. This "friend" of his did something completely inappropriate, and is liable to cause significant monetary damage, a possibly permanent stain on his reputation, and significant psychological distress. Not pursuing this through the appropriate venues—the legal system—simply lets her "get away with it". That's not being nice to her, that's being in an abusive relationship and not speaking up for yourself.
- tzakrajs 12y ago
  That is why I think there is more to the story. The smartest move would have been to quietly sue and not publish a blog about it.
  - MBCook 12y ago
    You don't think there'd be retaliation for that? I haven't seen this story yet, but I bet "Creator of horrible and crass card game sues to shut up victim he raped" certainly sounds like the kind of thing I'd expect to hear from a newscast. Right now it's a little thing. Defending himself could end up doing a Streisand effect and making it worse.
- NickWarner775 12y ago
  While this is definitely true, couldn't that just bring more unwanted attention to him in this situation? We see it with celebrities all the time; they go on trial for something, and the trial often gets so much media publicity that people forget if the person in question was even innocent or guilty in the end. They only remember to associate them with whatever the crime was. He doesn't want that, and maybe he doesn't want to give the accuser the satisfaction of tainting his reputation like that.
  - nsxwolf 12y ago
    I don't think many people ever forget that you were publicly accused of rape. If she's lying, he should absolutely sue the shit out of her, and drag her name through the mud. Screw her feelings. If she's not lying, then, well. He shouldn't do that, then.
sergiotapia 12y ago
"I spoke with my lawyer, and she thinks I have a clear case to sue this woman for libel and get a restraining order, but I have no desire to bully or harm her." You have the money to defend yourself, you are luckily able to fight back against these fabrications. What if you were less fortunate? You would be -fucked- my friend. You should definitely sue her ass for libel.
- untog 12y ago
  What if you were less fortunate? You would be -fucked- my friend. It sounds like this is kind of exactly what he doesn't want - to somehow represent or stand up for total strangers who were also accused of sexual assault. And I can see why. If he sues her for libel what, exactly, does he get out of it? Ironically, he'd get a lot more attention than has already been paid to the topic. I doubt he wants that, either.
- tzakrajs 12y ago
  I wonder if his lawyer advised him to publish a blog post about it too...
danso 12y ago
FWIW, here's the apparent tweet that was forwarded to the OP, with the ensuing (and vague) discussion: https://twitter.com/paulidin/status/487237076413612034 https://twitter.com/paulidin/status/487237076413612034 I saw another tweet from Andy Baio saying that the victim would release her side of the story on an online site (the link he gave was blank, though)...whatever the events, it probably wasn't ideal for a "friend of a friend" to make such a conclusive indictment, for either the OP or for the accuser.
- mkal_tsr 12y ago
  I find it interesting that someone comes along and says, "No one can have a proper dialogue about this here" which then leads to a response of "What you are doing is silencing the victim & being complicit in rape culture. So yeah, that IS you." which seems to directly prove his opinion that you cannot have proper dialogue about sensitive topics on Twitter.
  - throwaway5752 12y ago
    It was basically the stupidest conversation I've ever seen. Lot of people with opinions on a matter they know nothing about (and I can say with no reservation that any of them know the circumstances around what happened). People are just gullible, and the internet hasn't helped. I swear you could tweet that Einstein was a purple midget and as a result 5 people would go their graves believing it.
- Torgo 12y ago
  Oh, that guy, interesting. You're saying he doesn't actually directly know the person? He has a wannabe "Youtube celebrity" channel where feminism is a main topic. I am going to go ahead and say it. Whatever his motivations for writing this, by injecting himself into the middle of it he can now benefit financially off of this.
manyman899 12y ago
cards against humanity? seriously?
tzakrajs 12y ago
What good does it do to speak to her claims? Seems better to just ignore them and move on if they really are, "patently false." Had he said nothing, I wouldn't have any suspicion that he was a rapist, but now... I have to wonder.
- FatalLogic 12y ago
  I don't believe there's much chance of the accusation being forgotten. He's forced to address it, because ignoring it makes it appear he has something to hide.
x86_64Ubuntu 12y ago
I clicked on that link with no clue that it would be SO heavy.
- cheshire137 12y ago
  Yeah, I was expecting some startup to be shutting down or something.
NickWarner775 12y ago
Who are we inclined to believe in this situation; someone who has everything to lose (Max), or someone who has nothing to lose? Obviously I have no specific insight on this situation, but it just got me thinking that since rape is such a touchy subject to bring up, as was mentioned in the article, the girl who lived next to him could have easily fabricated this situation just for the attention, knowing full well that there would not be many questions asked. Just food for thought.
- josephschmoe 12y ago
  Specious logic...
  - gipp 12y ago
    Not to mention the ridiculous assertion that the accuser has "nothing to lose."
heyimwill 12y ago
I'm sorry you have to go through this, and I think it's admirable that you do not want to get lawyers involved, but think of everyone in your position who doesn't have the means to properly defend themselves from something like this. I think it's important to make a point that falsely accusing someone of rape is never okay, and comes with its consequences. Have fun at gX!
lifeisstillgood 12y ago
From the NSA and Snowden to Rape accusations on Facebook, we have (not will, have) entered a world where the old assumptions about secrecy, privacy have fallen away - like a Victorian London Fog blowing away to reveal everyone naked and wondering what to do now others can see. We really have no landmarks in this new world - whilst I applaud attempts to put the NSA back under the constitution, they are merely a surprising symptom not a cause - everything we do in the digital world is now available for everyone everywhere and when to search. We need laws, and more importantly cultural norms to deal with this. I have no idea if rape occurred in this case all those years ago - but I do know that this will cease to be news when it becomes commonplace. It is a new world, and we must be brave to find the promised land without drowning in the mess that will throw it forth. Rant over
- x86_64Ubuntu 12y ago
  What?
- GeorgeOrr 12y ago
  Scary rant. I'd hate to think that accusations become so commonplace that we no longer think of such a horrible accusation as being unusual. That would give cover to those actually guilty, and leave the innocent always accused. Sadly, I can't say you are wrong.
  - lifeisstillgood 12y ago
    rape has an unusual position in crime - conviction rates for murder are at 90% or more, for rape they rarely get above 1/3 - and that's for rapes reported which is assumed to be a lot lot lower than committed. Yet imagine if all those rapes were reported -over social media. We would still hav this anamolous conviction rate and yet a sea of accusations. Not sure what part of that is worse really.
hisabness 12y ago
hmm, whenever anyone calls my character into question i'm ready to fight to the death. The below is not that... "I spoke with my lawyer, and she thinks I have a clear case to sue this woman for libel and get a restraining order, but I have no desire to bully or harm her. Additionally, I’m not wild about the precedent that sets for other women to come forward in cases of actual sexual assault."
- golergka 12y ago
  May be because it's not you?
ary 12y ago
Assuming this is true by not pursuing legal action he does two things which make the situation worse. 1) He is allowing someone to diminish the voices of those who have actually suffered rape and need justice. He is also giving ammunition to those who attempt to make the argument that most purported victims of rape are "crying wolf". 2) He makes himself look culpable. This kind of thing is serious and if he's in the right he needs to make it known. The damage to his reputation is already done. By standing up for himself he'd also be standing up for real victims. Engaging this kind of thing in the legal courts and the court of public opinion can't be easy. I hope at least there can be some resolution.
- untog 12y ago
  He is allowing someone to diminish the voices of those who have actually suffered rape and need justice. He absolutely isn't. Many crimes like this rely on two opposing testimonies - what he said happened, and what she said happened. Even when an actual assault occurs it's very difficult to prove anything. Suing her for libel could absolutely discourage genuine rape victims from stepping forward.
  - nsxwolf 12y ago
    So he's required to martyr his reputation to help genuine rape victims? This is twisted.
    - untog 12y ago
      He's not required to, no. It's his choice. And what is so twisted about it? Genuine rape victims have been ignored and under-represented for, well, probably forever. That is twisted. He has the choice of what he does here, many don't. He exercised that choice.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
thrownaway2424 12y ago
Having been a man in college once, I concluded that the only sensible thing to do was to record every minute. Accusation of nearly anything can come out of nowhere. And self-surveillance is way more practical now than it was when I was in college.
- sebular 12y ago
  If you actually did this, and recorded girls in sexual situations without their knowledge or consent, you're guilty of crimes punishable by jail time.
  - thrownaway2424 12y ago
    The accuracy of your statement varies by jurisdiction, and technology will soon force the judiciary to confront the reality of ubiquitous storage and either break from precedent or issue some really awkward rulings.
    - dictum 12y ago
      Recording every sexual encounter doesn't prove that you didn't rape your partner. You could have threatened/forced your partner to appear to be enjoying or giving consent. Or your partner could falsely accuse you of doing that. Either way it doesn't prove there was no rape.
      - thrownaway2424 12y ago
        True, but a video where everyone just passes out drunk and then gets up and leaves would be pretty compelling.
    - sebular 12y ago
      Sounds like you actually did it then. Even hiding behind a throwaway, you probably shouldn't admit to felonies on the internet. On top of that, if you ever tried to submit that "evidence" in defense of a rape accusation, you'd still go to jail for that crime, so your so-called motivation doesn't hold water. And nice try framing this as a cool new intersection of technology and the law, but "ubiquitous storage" has nothing to do with creating pornographic films without consent. That's been possible since the 1800s, so it has nothing to do with our modern digital age. A person who went to my university was just sentenced to a couple of years in jail for doing what you did, and beyond the law it's plain disgusting and creepy. You want to film the women (really appreciate the correction, bud) you have sex with? Ask them first. You sicken me.
dictum 12y ago
A terrible comment to make in a serious submission about a serious issue, but: It's interesting that so many people who are internet-famous feminists seem to love Cards Against Humanity. Surely I'm seeing a pattern where there's only pure coincidence, but it caught my attention a while ago.
Mikeb85 12y ago
And yet another example of why public shaming is bad. If rape did happen, bring it before the courts. If not, don't ruin peoples' lives. And don't wait 10 years to accuse someone. Who knows what really happened. Were they both blackout-drunk? Was it really awkward and bad? Maybe she consented and then regretted it? Maybe it was rape, in which case she should have reported it 10 years ago... Is she trying to cash in since he's slightly more successful than the stereotype of a philosophy major?
- VeejayRampay 12y ago
  I'm not going to discuss this particular case, which I know nothing about, but generally speaking, I think it's fairly to look at it from a distance and say "Maybe it was rape, in which case she should have reported it 10 years ago". I am not an expert on the matter, but for many rape victims, it is not as easy as it sounds. A lot of different factors come into play when trying to muster the courage to go report a life-shattering incident such as rape. Guilt, fear of not being taken seriously, facing the incident once again, anguish about legal procedures, etc. Can't emphasize this enough, it's not something you can look at rationally and say "That person should have done that".
  - Mikeb85 12y ago
    I'm sure its not easy. But making an accusation on Twitter is all too easy. In our society, when a crime occurs we want justice. Mob anger on the internet isn't justice.
- pcl 12y ago
  Maybe it was rape, in which case she should have reported it 10 years ago Thankfully, I've never been sexually assaulted, and I have no insight into either side of this particular situation, but I doubt that it's quite that simple for the victim of a rape.
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    I'm having trouble expressing this properly, but while the particulars aren't necessarily simple, one thing that is simple is the statute of limitations. It seems awfully relevant, and the statute of limitations doesn't really care what the circumstances are (to my understanding, anyway)
nickgrosvenor 12y ago
This may be the only benefit of not attending college.
Yourfags 12y ago
The problem with having to "lawyer up" is someone is trying to ruin him over something that isn't real. If he really is innocent, the most likely explanation is that this woman's life has not gone well, and now she is hoping to take revenge on someone who really has only helped her in the past, and in doing so hopefully avoid whatever pain it is the future she's running from; either that or she's just a psychopath.
- mkr-hn 12y ago
  I'm not sure whether I'm more offended by the grammar or the content of your user name.
groby_b 12y ago
I wanted to say I'm amazed by the number of commenters who just assume the OP states the truth, but I'm not, not really. HN is awfully quick to take sides, and it's very predictable where it comes down. (In the aggregate. Yes, I know there's no HN group mind) So, as food for thought: What if something happened between these two that was rather awkward, and can be interpreted either way? In that case, I think the OPs response is entirely reasonable - "Oh fuck, this is not what I thought it was, or what I intended it to be. I'd like to talk to her". I'm very sad the woman's first reaction was to lob a public accusation, yes. If she thinks it's rape, she should've file charges, instead of instigating a pitchfork campaign. On the flip side, the reactions here show exactly how most women claiming rape are treated, including by law enforcement. It immediately becomes a witch hunt. So how about we withhold judgment on this for a little while, until there are actual facts? Or are we so desperate for yellow journalism that we must comment on other's private lives without any information?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- tomjen3 12y ago
  We assume what OP states is the truth because the woman took ten years to come forward. Ten years is far too much to be credible.
  - groby_b 12y ago
    Have you been raped? No? Would you then kindly not make assumptions how long it takes to finally get the courage to admit to it? Many people suppress traumatic experiences. It's rarely successful, but it sometimes works as a coping strategy. For a while. All it takes is one triggering event to bring it to the foreground again. If that event happens ten years later, that's when it happens. Yes, it's a long time. Unfortunately, that's the way our brain works, sometimes. The OP seems to understand that.
- jeroen 12y ago
  "I wanted to say I'm amazed by the number of commenters who just assume the OP states the truth, but I'm not, not really. HN is awfully quick to take sides, and it's very predictable where it comes down. (In the aggregate. Yes, I know there's no HN group mind)" There are 121 comments right now. I have no idea how many users HN has, but I think it is safe to assume that the writers of those 121 comments are not a significant part of the group. I think it is a mistake to draw conclusions about "HN" from a bunch of comments.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
n0rm 12y ago
This is from his e-shop; > Sorry, foreign person, but our store is not yet available in your inferior country. He is a d*ckhead, after all.
- VeejayRampay 12y ago
  Nah it's OK, it's a "joke". If you don't get it and you are offended by it, you're most likely an inferior foreigner. - A Frenchman.
- smackfu 12y ago
  That is probably less offensive than anything you could find in a Cards Against Humanity deck.
  - gertef 12y ago
    CAH is vulgar, crass, and offensive, but it is insulting? There is a difference.
    - Crito 12y ago
      It's insulting if you play it right.
slg 12y ago
>It is entirely possible she read something completely different than I did into an awkward college hookup. Absent any further evidence from either party and giving both the benefit of the doubt, doesn't this seem like the most likely explanation? It isn't that uncommon for two people to have two completely different takeaways from the same event. If you throw in the probable lack of experience of the two parties, the likelihood that alcohol was involved, and the admission by one of the participants that they lacked communication skills, those odds would seemingly skyrocket. This is the reason for the whole 90's politically correct era of asking permission before every escalation. That is the best way to prevent this possible scenario until both parties gain the experience, the communication skills, the confidence, and the level of safety to properly convey what the want from the situation.
- AnimalMuppet 12y ago
  But even if permission is asked for and obtained, one party can later claim coercion. (This does not even have to be a dishonest claim. One party may in fact have been coerced. Or one party, looking back, may feel that they were coerced, even if the other party made a good-faith effort to obtain consent.)
- mreiland 12y ago
  Possible, but not probable. 19 is not 15 and having sex for the first time ever. One wonders why she didn't accuse him of rape at the time.
  - nrmitchi 12y ago
    I really think you are jumping to a conclusion here that 19 years olds are sexually experienced.
    - mreiland 12y ago
      Do I think a 19 year old is generally going to be as open about sex as a 39 year old? no. do I think a 19 year old isn't going to accidentally rape someone? yes. Just how many years of experience do you think it takes before one can avoid accidentally raping someone?
eggbrain 12y ago
Let me begin by saying that this is frustrating for all groups involved. But I wanted to specifically address what Max really can or cannot do regarding this situation. 1. I understand those that say that he should sue. But think of it this way: even if he goes through a long lawsuit to sue and wins, he still comes up worse for wear: people who hated him to begin with will just say he "bought" his freedom with high priced lawyers, and the publicity the trial would generate would just hurt him more no matter what the outcome. 2. What's frustrating to me is even in these HN comments, the fact that he _isn't_ suing is somehow proof that there might be more to the story! You end up not winning -- not going to trial is because you know the "truth" might come out, and going to trial and winning will still prove that you might still be guilty, but celebrity status/money helped you. 3. Other people argue he should / should not have posted this blog post. But again, it's a catch-22: if you don't publish the blog post, it's because you are trying to bury the story because there might be some truth to it. But if you do publish it, now people think you aren't telling the whole truth and are just spinning it to get people on your side! So really, no matter what you do, there's no good solution. If you sue, your victory will be Pyrrhic at best. If you don't sue, you're hiding something. If you post a response, you are spinning it. If you don't post, you're hiding something. Worse yet, defending Max can end up being a lose-lose situation as well. If I believe Max's story, and defend him in forums/communications, that can portray me as being a sympathizer to sexual offenders rather than victims, which would anger me very much. Sexual assault is a travesty. Period. And victims already have many times a hard enough time coming forward and talking about it, yet alone going to the police -- under the assumption that they might not be believed or that they will be shamed. But we need to make sure that there is justice for all, without hurting either side. We still have a long way to go.
- beachstartup 12y ago
  so basically, we live in a society where anyone's reputation can be instantly, completely and forever ruined, at will, by someone leveling a rape accusation on the internet.
  - rhizome 12y ago
    Has Max's reputation been instantly, completely, and forever ruined?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ctdonath 12y ago
Her use of the term "rape culture" is a red flag. I've been seeing it used very very broadly, covering "transgressions" as simple as looking admiringly at a woman for her attractive (and willfully emphasized) figure. She might be labeling her short, intimate & dumped relationship with him as "rape" despite nothing forced nor overtly sexual. Willful misuse of terms to evoke cultural reactions is not uncommon, extremely hard to counter in fairness, and terribly destructive. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - The Princess Bride
- mistermann 12y ago
  Abundant examples: http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction
- nilved 12y ago
  I think that you have a lenient notion of what sexual assault is, and especially that you're inexperienced with feminist thought based on your inappropriate "willfully emphasized" remark (which should correctly be "worn for personal choice and not for the approval of men.")
  - ctdonath 12y ago
    You demonstrate my point well.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  > Willful misuse of terms to evoke cultural reactions is not uncommon, extremely hard to counter in fairness, and terribly destructive. Yeah, it's a terribly dishonorable, but still extremely effective tactic. yvain has some interesting writings about how "rape culture" is nonsense [1] and why "willful misuse of terms" is so damn effective in derailing rational debate [2]. [1] - http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/19/i-do-not-understand-rape-culture/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/19/i-do-not-understand-rap... [2] - http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/social-justice-and-words-words-words/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/social-justice-and-word...
esbonsa 12y ago
"patently" should be discontinued as meaning obviously? It makes it confusing when you look at existing patents...
scarmig 12y ago
It's unfortunate that so many are uncritically jumping to Max's defense. Scratch that--it's wrong, misogynistic, and reflects badly on the HN community. No one knows what actually happened, except for the accused and the accuser, and even they have to contend with time dulling memory. If you're part of the group that's immediately discounting her accusation and claiming she made it up, I've got to ask: why? The only reasons I see mentioned here are "it was a long time ago, she would have pressed charges then if she were telling the truth" and "she refers to rape culture, she's clearly a social justice warrior trying to pick up some Twitter followers." But both are transparently bad reasons to attack her credibility. A more interesting question is how to dispel the fog of claims and counterclaims that makes identifying and prosecuting intimate violence so difficult. I can't imagine anything short of the panopticon that could do that, though.
- tim333 12y ago
  >A more interesting question is how to dispel the fog of claims and counterclaims that makes identifying and prosecuting intimate violence so difficult. While you can't really tell in he said-she said cases, rapists and similar are often creatures of habit and if you get unrelated victims with the same story that narrows things down. Plus there can be other evidence. Rolf Harris for example - that was a bit of a shocker.
- xsmasher 12y ago
  People are uncritically jumping to Max's defense because (1) he's a famous guy who created something they like and (2) as males, it's easier to put themselves in his shoes than hers. Neither of those reasons are particularly logical, but we're dealing with humans here, not machines.
- chaostheory 12y ago
  People are jumping to his defense because of one thing: She isn't providing any details. We don't even know what the nature of sexual assault happened, how it happened, and even when it happened. This isn't to say that a sexual assault didn't happen. However, how can anyone defend themselves from an accusation with no details? Her response doesn't even counter any of the details in Max's response. (i.e. Was kissing the sexual assault in question?)
shkkmo 12y ago
The victim should have reported the rape when it occured. I will always support that choice on the part of the victum. Not reporting rape when it occurred is not the fault of the victim. However, she leveled public accusations 10 years later when the only chance of evaluating the accusations is the word and unreliable memories of the two people involved. Now, even that isn't necessarily a bad thing. She should have that right, and people should come forward in case there are other silent, more recent, victims. Unfortunately, internet culture involves people thinking that they somehow have the ability and responsiblity to judge the truth of these accusations and then publicly voice that opinion. I wish fewer people on this thread were doing that. We need to have a safe, secure, victim friendly system for logging these types of accusations, investigating them, looking for corroboration, and then strict guidelines for publicizing these accusations even if the statue of limitations has expired. Public shaming works, the court of public opinion doesn't. The most honorable thing in that whole post is this: "You will not harass or threaten the woman making these claims. I am not looking for a mob of people carrying pitchforks on my behalf. If you harass her or go after her in any way, you are not a friend of mine, and you are not a friend of Cards Against Humanity."
tzs 12y ago
> I had a really brief relationship with this girl in college; her dorm room was next to mine, and after a few evenings staying up talking all night, we made out. We spent a few nights in each others’ rooms, but we never had sex and neither of us pressured the other into doing anything we weren’t comfortable with. After a few nights, I broke things off in the cowardly way that 19-year-old guys do, and I just stopped returning her calls and texts. I'm a bit confused by this part. I thought that the ignore calls and texts method of breakup only worked when those were essentially the only forms of communication you had with the person when not on a date. That method then works because with no more communication, they can no longer arrange dates. How do you make that method work when the other person is in the next room?
- spiffytech 12y ago
  I can think of several possibilities, but I'll leave their plausibility for the reader to judge: - She was also cowardly about how the relationship ended, and could never work up the nerve to confront him in person. In my own dorm doors were usually kept closed, so if you didn't seek someone out, you would rarely see them at all. - She knocked on his door, and he ignored her then too, but omitted it from the article, focusing on where the relationship didn't go rather than exhaustively detailing how it ended - The two people kept separate schedules that meant they often weren't home at the same time, save sleeping hours (or, if either had a flexible-schedule night shift job, as my own roommate did, not even then) - The relationship occurred near the end of a semester, and both parties moved out about the time it ended. They no longer ran into each other.
pikachu_is_cool 12y ago
I think my favorite part of the blog post is the last line. > If you see me this weekend at GaymerX, I could use a hug. Hook. Line. Sinker.
- mkr-hn 12y ago
  I don't get it. Why is this your favorite part, and where does "Hook. Line. Sinker." come in?
schrodingersCat 12y ago
The accuser/victim has responded to Max's post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029353
- learningram 12y ago
  Cannot see it now. Can you post the text ?
  - schrodingersCat 12y ago
    Here's a direct link to her blog post: http://humanityagainstassault.tumblr.com/post/91625206355/truth http://humanityagainstassault.tumblr.com/post/91625206355/tr... Let me know if you still cannot see the post and I'll paste in the text.

dang 12y ago

Since the post has no title to revert to, we'll use the first sentence instead. The submitted title ("Co-founder of Cards Against Humanity Accused of Rape"), besides being editorialized, was also arguably misleading, since it suggests that the post consists of the accusation. Commenters: Please follow the HN guidelines and ensure that your comments are substantive and civil.

daurnimator 12y ago
The first sentence doesn't provide any context, or idea of the content. Could you leave something in there about who wrote it?
- dang 12y ago
  That's a reasonable request. But HN's title policy is designed to emphasize content more and personalities less. We usually edit author names out of titles even when they're in the original. It isn't hard to figure out who wrote most posts and surely few people are in doubt about this one. We often use the first sentence of a post as a replacement title when the article title itself is misleading or linkbait, so using it here isn't really a stretch.

giarc 12y ago

If any part of that was traumatic for her, I am sincerely sorry, and I wish we would have had a chance to address it privately. Can't apologizing like this be considered as an admission of guilt? Or is that what Hollywood/TV would like me to believe? EDIT - I didn't mean admitting guilt in terms of the law, but how a lawyer would spin it. Think of what a good lawyer could do with this quote. Max admits that part of the relationship could have been "traumatic for her" and then apologizes for it and then wishes he could have spoken in private.

percentcer 12y ago
I think the word you're looking for is compassion
GeorgeOrr 12y ago
Do you mean legally? I hope not. It sounds like he's feeling concerned for a person he once knew. Being confused/disturbed by the accusation didn't prevent him from being concerned. It would suck if that was used against him legally.
mhurron 12y ago
Really? Apologizing for not returning calls or having an awkward hookup in college would be an admission of rape? Assuming this account is accurate that is. Which is actually the whole problem here. There is no proof on either side to say one is correct and the other not. So basically the whole thing will or will not hurt this guy, CAH and/or the accuser in a way that it should or should not have based entirely on who wants to believe what.
zem 12y ago
canada actually has an "apology act" specifically to address that

vezzy-fnord 12y ago

We removed all of the “rape” jokes from Cards Against Humanity years ago. We’ll continue to use the game as best we can to “punch up” and not “punch down.” Is this the same Cards Against Humanity that I'm thinking of? Because I'm pretty sure that game "punches down" quite hard.

liquidise 12y ago
It depends on the group of players in my experience. The cards definitely can be insulting if played in that manner. They can also be hilarious and disconnected to any specific person, Glenn Beck notwithstanding.
- vezzy-fnord 12y ago
  Right, but the decision to remove rape jokes, given all the obscene content related to far more severe acts (including genocide), is just so arbitrary it's hilarious.
boucher 12y ago
Although I realize that on some level it's just not my kind of humor, I honestly think this game is pretty disgusting and I'm surprised by how popular it is.
- meowface 12y ago
  I've actually never met someone who was offended or disgusted by it, excluding those who are socially conservative or religious. That may also be due to the fact that I'm still in the 18-25 age group though.
  - colanderman 12y ago
    I'm neither socially conservative nor religious nor over 30, yet I think it's horse shit. It's like everything I hate about Reddit distilled into a deck of cards. Somehow all my friends love it; I personally don't care to imagine midgets ejaculating into dismembered bodies regardless of the context. I guess I just don't understand the humor of shock. I usually find an excuse to leave a party sooner after CAH gets pulled out, whether I'm roped into playing it or not. Maybe that makes me a loser, whatever.

eykanal 12y ago

While it's very chivalrous of him to not want to lawyer up, what he's describing is libel, pure and simple. This "friend" of his did something completely inappropriate, and is liable to cause significant monetary damage, a possibly permanent stain on his reputation, and significant psychological distress. Not pursuing this through the appropriate venues—the legal system—simply lets her "get away with it". That's not being nice to her, that's being in an abusive relationship and not speaking up for yourself.

tzakrajs 12y ago
That is why I think there is more to the story. The smartest move would have been to quietly sue and not publish a blog about it.
- MBCook 12y ago
  You don't think there'd be retaliation for that? I haven't seen this story yet, but I bet "Creator of horrible and crass card game sues to shut up victim he raped" certainly sounds like the kind of thing I'd expect to hear from a newscast. Right now it's a little thing. Defending himself could end up doing a Streisand effect and making it worse.
NickWarner775 12y ago
While this is definitely true, couldn't that just bring more unwanted attention to him in this situation? We see it with celebrities all the time; they go on trial for something, and the trial often gets so much media publicity that people forget if the person in question was even innocent or guilty in the end. They only remember to associate them with whatever the crime was. He doesn't want that, and maybe he doesn't want to give the accuser the satisfaction of tainting his reputation like that.
- nsxwolf 12y ago
  I don't think many people ever forget that you were publicly accused of rape. If she's lying, he should absolutely sue the shit out of her, and drag her name through the mud. Screw her feelings. If she's not lying, then, well. He shouldn't do that, then.

sergiotapia 12y ago

"I spoke with my lawyer, and she thinks I have a clear case to sue this woman for libel and get a restraining order, but I have no desire to bully or harm her." You have the money to defend yourself, you are luckily able to fight back against these fabrications. What if you were less fortunate? You would be -fucked- my friend. You should definitely sue her ass for libel.

untog 12y ago
What if you were less fortunate? You would be -fucked- my friend. It sounds like this is kind of exactly what he doesn't want - to somehow represent or stand up for total strangers who were also accused of sexual assault. And I can see why. If he sues her for libel what, exactly, does he get out of it? Ironically, he'd get a lot more attention than has already been paid to the topic. I doubt he wants that, either.
tzakrajs 12y ago
I wonder if his lawyer advised him to publish a blog post about it too...

danso 12y ago

FWIW, here's the apparent tweet that was forwarded to the OP, with the ensuing (and vague) discussion: https://twitter.com/paulidin/status/487237076413612034 https://twitter.com/paulidin/status/487237076413612034 I saw another tweet from Andy Baio saying that the victim would release her side of the story on an online site (the link he gave was blank, though)...whatever the events, it probably wasn't ideal for a "friend of a friend" to make such a conclusive indictment, for either the OP or for the accuser.

mkal_tsr 12y ago
I find it interesting that someone comes along and says, "No one can have a proper dialogue about this here" which then leads to a response of "What you are doing is silencing the victim & being complicit in rape culture. So yeah, that IS you." which seems to directly prove his opinion that you cannot have proper dialogue about sensitive topics on Twitter.
- throwaway5752 12y ago
  It was basically the stupidest conversation I've ever seen. Lot of people with opinions on a matter they know nothing about (and I can say with no reservation that any of them know the circumstances around what happened). People are just gullible, and the internet hasn't helped. I swear you could tweet that Einstein was a purple midget and as a result 5 people would go their graves believing it.
Torgo 12y ago
Oh, that guy, interesting. You're saying he doesn't actually directly know the person? He has a wannabe "Youtube celebrity" channel where feminism is a main topic. I am going to go ahead and say it. Whatever his motivations for writing this, by injecting himself into the middle of it he can now benefit financially off of this.

manyman899 12y ago

cards against humanity? seriously?

tzakrajs 12y ago

What good does it do to speak to her claims? Seems better to just ignore them and move on if they really are, "patently false." Had he said nothing, I wouldn't have any suspicion that he was a rapist, but now... I have to wonder.

FatalLogic 12y ago
I don't believe there's much chance of the accusation being forgotten. He's forced to address it, because ignoring it makes it appear he has something to hide.

x86_64Ubuntu 12y ago

I clicked on that link with no clue that it would be SO heavy.

cheshire137 12y ago
Yeah, I was expecting some startup to be shutting down or something.

NickWarner775 12y ago

Who are we inclined to believe in this situation; someone who has everything to lose (Max), or someone who has nothing to lose? Obviously I have no specific insight on this situation, but it just got me thinking that since rape is such a touchy subject to bring up, as was mentioned in the article, the girl who lived next to him could have easily fabricated this situation just for the attention, knowing full well that there would not be many questions asked. Just food for thought.

josephschmoe 12y ago
Specious logic...
- gipp 12y ago
  Not to mention the ridiculous assertion that the accuser has "nothing to lose."

heyimwill 12y ago

I'm sorry you have to go through this, and I think it's admirable that you do not want to get lawyers involved, but think of everyone in your position who doesn't have the means to properly defend themselves from something like this. I think it's important to make a point that falsely accusing someone of rape is never okay, and comes with its consequences. Have fun at gX!

lifeisstillgood 12y ago

From the NSA and Snowden to Rape accusations on Facebook, we have (not will, have) entered a world where the old assumptions about secrecy, privacy have fallen away - like a Victorian London Fog blowing away to reveal everyone naked and wondering what to do now others can see. We really have no landmarks in this new world - whilst I applaud attempts to put the NSA back under the constitution, they are merely a surprising symptom not a cause - everything we do in the digital world is now available for everyone everywhere and when to search. We need laws, and more importantly cultural norms to deal with this. I have no idea if rape occurred in this case all those years ago - but I do know that this will cease to be news when it becomes commonplace. It is a new world, and we must be brave to find the promised land without drowning in the mess that will throw it forth. Rant over

x86_64Ubuntu 12y ago
What?
GeorgeOrr 12y ago
Scary rant. I'd hate to think that accusations become so commonplace that we no longer think of such a horrible accusation as being unusual. That would give cover to those actually guilty, and leave the innocent always accused. Sadly, I can't say you are wrong.
- lifeisstillgood 12y ago
  rape has an unusual position in crime - conviction rates for murder are at 90% or more, for rape they rarely get above 1/3 - and that's for rapes reported which is assumed to be a lot lot lower than committed. Yet imagine if all those rapes were reported -over social media. We would still hav this anamolous conviction rate and yet a sea of accusations. Not sure what part of that is worse really.

hisabness 12y ago

hmm, whenever anyone calls my character into question i'm ready to fight to the death. The below is not that... "I spoke with my lawyer, and she thinks I have a clear case to sue this woman for libel and get a restraining order, but I have no desire to bully or harm her. Additionally, I’m not wild about the precedent that sets for other women to come forward in cases of actual sexual assault."

golergka 12y ago
May be because it's not you?

ary 12y ago

Assuming this is true by not pursuing legal action he does two things which make the situation worse. 1) He is allowing someone to diminish the voices of those who have actually suffered rape and need justice. He is also giving ammunition to those who attempt to make the argument that most purported victims of rape are "crying wolf". 2) He makes himself look culpable. This kind of thing is serious and if he's in the right he needs to make it known. The damage to his reputation is already done. By standing up for himself he'd also be standing up for real victims. Engaging this kind of thing in the legal courts and the court of public opinion can't be easy. I hope at least there can be some resolution.

untog 12y ago
He is allowing someone to diminish the voices of those who have actually suffered rape and need justice. He absolutely isn't. Many crimes like this rely on two opposing testimonies - what he said happened, and what she said happened. Even when an actual assault occurs it's very difficult to prove anything. Suing her for libel could absolutely discourage genuine rape victims from stepping forward.
- nsxwolf 12y ago
  So he's required to martyr his reputation to help genuine rape victims? This is twisted.
  - untog 12y ago
    He's not required to, no. It's his choice. And what is so twisted about it? Genuine rape victims have been ignored and under-represented for, well, probably forever. That is twisted. He has the choice of what he does here, many don't. He exercised that choice.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

thrownaway2424 12y ago

Having been a man in college once, I concluded that the only sensible thing to do was to record every minute. Accusation of nearly anything can come out of nowhere. And self-surveillance is way more practical now than it was when I was in college.

sebular 12y ago
If you actually did this, and recorded girls in sexual situations without their knowledge or consent, you're guilty of crimes punishable by jail time.
- thrownaway2424 12y ago
  The accuracy of your statement varies by jurisdiction, and technology will soon force the judiciary to confront the reality of ubiquitous storage and either break from precedent or issue some really awkward rulings.
  - dictum 12y ago
    Recording every sexual encounter doesn't prove that you didn't rape your partner. You could have threatened/forced your partner to appear to be enjoying or giving consent. Or your partner could falsely accuse you of doing that. Either way it doesn't prove there was no rape.
    - thrownaway2424 12y ago
      True, but a video where everyone just passes out drunk and then gets up and leaves would be pretty compelling.
  - sebular 12y ago
    Sounds like you actually did it then. Even hiding behind a throwaway, you probably shouldn't admit to felonies on the internet. On top of that, if you ever tried to submit that "evidence" in defense of a rape accusation, you'd still go to jail for that crime, so your so-called motivation doesn't hold water. And nice try framing this as a cool new intersection of technology and the law, but "ubiquitous storage" has nothing to do with creating pornographic films without consent. That's been possible since the 1800s, so it has nothing to do with our modern digital age. A person who went to my university was just sentenced to a couple of years in jail for doing what you did, and beyond the law it's plain disgusting and creepy. You want to film the women (really appreciate the correction, bud) you have sex with? Ask them first. You sicken me.

dictum 12y ago

A terrible comment to make in a serious submission about a serious issue, but: It's interesting that so many people who are internet-famous feminists seem to love Cards Against Humanity. Surely I'm seeing a pattern where there's only pure coincidence, but it caught my attention a while ago.

Mikeb85 12y ago

And yet another example of why public shaming is bad. If rape did happen, bring it before the courts. If not, don't ruin peoples' lives. And don't wait 10 years to accuse someone. Who knows what really happened. Were they both blackout-drunk? Was it really awkward and bad? Maybe she consented and then regretted it? Maybe it was rape, in which case she should have reported it 10 years ago... Is she trying to cash in since he's slightly more successful than the stereotype of a philosophy major?

VeejayRampay 12y ago
I'm not going to discuss this particular case, which I know nothing about, but generally speaking, I think it's fairly to look at it from a distance and say "Maybe it was rape, in which case she should have reported it 10 years ago". I am not an expert on the matter, but for many rape victims, it is not as easy as it sounds. A lot of different factors come into play when trying to muster the courage to go report a life-shattering incident such as rape. Guilt, fear of not being taken seriously, facing the incident once again, anguish about legal procedures, etc. Can't emphasize this enough, it's not something you can look at rationally and say "That person should have done that".
- Mikeb85 12y ago
  I'm sure its not easy. But making an accusation on Twitter is all too easy. In our society, when a crime occurs we want justice. Mob anger on the internet isn't justice.
pcl 12y ago
Maybe it was rape, in which case she should have reported it 10 years ago Thankfully, I've never been sexually assaulted, and I have no insight into either side of this particular situation, but I doubt that it's quite that simple for the victim of a rape.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  I'm having trouble expressing this properly, but while the particulars aren't necessarily simple, one thing that is simple is the statute of limitations. It seems awfully relevant, and the statute of limitations doesn't really care what the circumstances are (to my understanding, anyway)

nickgrosvenor 12y ago

This may be the only benefit of not attending college.

Yourfags 12y ago

The problem with having to "lawyer up" is someone is trying to ruin him over something that isn't real. If he really is innocent, the most likely explanation is that this woman's life has not gone well, and now she is hoping to take revenge on someone who really has only helped her in the past, and in doing so hopefully avoid whatever pain it is the future she's running from; either that or she's just a psychopath.

mkr-hn 12y ago
I'm not sure whether I'm more offended by the grammar or the content of your user name.

groby_b 12y ago

I wanted to say I'm amazed by the number of commenters who just assume the OP states the truth, but I'm not, not really. HN is awfully quick to take sides, and it's very predictable where it comes down. (In the aggregate. Yes, I know there's no HN group mind) So, as food for thought: What if something happened between these two that was rather awkward, and can be interpreted either way? In that case, I think the OPs response is entirely reasonable - "Oh fuck, this is not what I thought it was, or what I intended it to be. I'd like to talk to her". I'm very sad the woman's first reaction was to lob a public accusation, yes. If she thinks it's rape, she should've file charges, instead of instigating a pitchfork campaign. On the flip side, the reactions here show exactly how most women claiming rape are treated, including by law enforcement. It immediately becomes a witch hunt. So how about we withhold judgment on this for a little while, until there are actual facts? Or are we so desperate for yellow journalism that we must comment on other's private lives without any information?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
tomjen3 12y ago
We assume what OP states is the truth because the woman took ten years to come forward. Ten years is far too much to be credible.
- groby_b 12y ago
  Have you been raped? No? Would you then kindly not make assumptions how long it takes to finally get the courage to admit to it? Many people suppress traumatic experiences. It's rarely successful, but it sometimes works as a coping strategy. For a while. All it takes is one triggering event to bring it to the foreground again. If that event happens ten years later, that's when it happens. Yes, it's a long time. Unfortunately, that's the way our brain works, sometimes. The OP seems to understand that.
jeroen 12y ago
"I wanted to say I'm amazed by the number of commenters who just assume the OP states the truth, but I'm not, not really. HN is awfully quick to take sides, and it's very predictable where it comes down. (In the aggregate. Yes, I know there's no HN group mind)" There are 121 comments right now. I have no idea how many users HN has, but I think it is safe to assume that the writers of those 121 comments are not a significant part of the group. I think it is a mistake to draw conclusions about "HN" from a bunch of comments.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

n0rm 12y ago

This is from his e-shop; > Sorry, foreign person, but our store is not yet available in your inferior country. He is a d*ckhead, after all.

VeejayRampay 12y ago
Nah it's OK, it's a "joke". If you don't get it and you are offended by it, you're most likely an inferior foreigner. - A Frenchman.
smackfu 12y ago
That is probably less offensive than anything you could find in a Cards Against Humanity deck.
- gertef 12y ago
  CAH is vulgar, crass, and offensive, but it is insulting? There is a difference.
  - Crito 12y ago
    It's insulting if you play it right.

slg 12y ago

>It is entirely possible she read something completely different than I did into an awkward college hookup. Absent any further evidence from either party and giving both the benefit of the doubt, doesn't this seem like the most likely explanation? It isn't that uncommon for two people to have two completely different takeaways from the same event. If you throw in the probable lack of experience of the two parties, the likelihood that alcohol was involved, and the admission by one of the participants that they lacked communication skills, those odds would seemingly skyrocket. This is the reason for the whole 90's politically correct era of asking permission before every escalation. That is the best way to prevent this possible scenario until both parties gain the experience, the communication skills, the confidence, and the level of safety to properly convey what the want from the situation.

AnimalMuppet 12y ago
But even if permission is asked for and obtained, one party can later claim coercion. (This does not even have to be a dishonest claim. One party may in fact have been coerced. Or one party, looking back, may feel that they were coerced, even if the other party made a good-faith effort to obtain consent.)
mreiland 12y ago
Possible, but not probable. 19 is not 15 and having sex for the first time ever. One wonders why she didn't accuse him of rape at the time.
- nrmitchi 12y ago
  I really think you are jumping to a conclusion here that 19 years olds are sexually experienced.
  - mreiland 12y ago
    Do I think a 19 year old is generally going to be as open about sex as a 39 year old? no. do I think a 19 year old isn't going to accidentally rape someone? yes. Just how many years of experience do you think it takes before one can avoid accidentally raping someone?

eggbrain 12y ago

Let me begin by saying that this is frustrating for all groups involved. But I wanted to specifically address what Max really can or cannot do regarding this situation. 1. I understand those that say that he should sue. But think of it this way: even if he goes through a long lawsuit to sue and wins, he still comes up worse for wear: people who hated him to begin with will just say he "bought" his freedom with high priced lawyers, and the publicity the trial would generate would just hurt him more no matter what the outcome. 2. What's frustrating to me is even in these HN comments, the fact that he _isn't_ suing is somehow proof that there might be more to the story! You end up not winning -- not going to trial is because you know the "truth" might come out, and going to trial and winning will still prove that you might still be guilty, but celebrity status/money helped you. 3. Other people argue he should / should not have posted this blog post. But again, it's a catch-22: if you don't publish the blog post, it's because you are trying to bury the story because there might be some truth to it. But if you do publish it, now people think you aren't telling the whole truth and are just spinning it to get people on your side! So really, no matter what you do, there's no good solution. If you sue, your victory will be Pyrrhic at best. If you don't sue, you're hiding something. If you post a response, you are spinning it. If you don't post, you're hiding something. Worse yet, defending Max can end up being a lose-lose situation as well. If I believe Max's story, and defend him in forums/communications, that can portray me as being a sympathizer to sexual offenders rather than victims, which would anger me very much. Sexual assault is a travesty. Period. And victims already have many times a hard enough time coming forward and talking about it, yet alone going to the police -- under the assumption that they might not be believed or that they will be shamed. But we need to make sure that there is justice for all, without hurting either side. We still have a long way to go.

beachstartup 12y ago
so basically, we live in a society where anyone's reputation can be instantly, completely and forever ruined, at will, by someone leveling a rape accusation on the internet.
- rhizome 12y ago
  Has Max's reputation been instantly, completely, and forever ruined?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

ctdonath 12y ago

Her use of the term "rape culture" is a red flag. I've been seeing it used very very broadly, covering "transgressions" as simple as looking admiringly at a woman for her attractive (and willfully emphasized) figure. She might be labeling her short, intimate & dumped relationship with him as "rape" despite nothing forced nor overtly sexual. Willful misuse of terms to evoke cultural reactions is not uncommon, extremely hard to counter in fairness, and terribly destructive. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - The Princess Bride

mistermann 12y ago
Abundant examples: http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction http://www.reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction
nilved 12y ago
I think that you have a lenient notion of what sexual assault is, and especially that you're inexperienced with feminist thought based on your inappropriate "willfully emphasized" remark (which should correctly be "worn for personal choice and not for the approval of men.")
- ctdonath 12y ago
  You demonstrate my point well.
TeMPOraL 12y ago
> Willful misuse of terms to evoke cultural reactions is not uncommon, extremely hard to counter in fairness, and terribly destructive. Yeah, it's a terribly dishonorable, but still extremely effective tactic. yvain has some interesting writings about how "rape culture" is nonsense [1] and why "willful misuse of terms" is so damn effective in derailing rational debate [2]. [1] - http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/19/i-do-not-understand-rape-culture/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/19/i-do-not-understand-rap... [2] - http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/social-justice-and-words-words-words/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/social-justice-and-word...

esbonsa 12y ago

"patently" should be discontinued as meaning obviously? It makes it confusing when you look at existing patents...

scarmig 12y ago

It's unfortunate that so many are uncritically jumping to Max's defense. Scratch that--it's wrong, misogynistic, and reflects badly on the HN community. No one knows what actually happened, except for the accused and the accuser, and even they have to contend with time dulling memory. If you're part of the group that's immediately discounting her accusation and claiming she made it up, I've got to ask: why? The only reasons I see mentioned here are "it was a long time ago, she would have pressed charges then if she were telling the truth" and "she refers to rape culture, she's clearly a social justice warrior trying to pick up some Twitter followers." But both are transparently bad reasons to attack her credibility. A more interesting question is how to dispel the fog of claims and counterclaims that makes identifying and prosecuting intimate violence so difficult. I can't imagine anything short of the panopticon that could do that, though.

tim333 12y ago
>A more interesting question is how to dispel the fog of claims and counterclaims that makes identifying and prosecuting intimate violence so difficult. While you can't really tell in he said-she said cases, rapists and similar are often creatures of habit and if you get unrelated victims with the same story that narrows things down. Plus there can be other evidence. Rolf Harris for example - that was a bit of a shocker.
xsmasher 12y ago
People are uncritically jumping to Max's defense because (1) he's a famous guy who created something they like and (2) as males, it's easier to put themselves in his shoes than hers. Neither of those reasons are particularly logical, but we're dealing with humans here, not machines.
chaostheory 12y ago
People are jumping to his defense because of one thing: She isn't providing any details. We don't even know what the nature of sexual assault happened, how it happened, and even when it happened. This isn't to say that a sexual assault didn't happen. However, how can anyone defend themselves from an accusation with no details? Her response doesn't even counter any of the details in Max's response. (i.e. Was kissing the sexual assault in question?)

shkkmo 12y ago

The victim should have reported the rape when it occured. I will always support that choice on the part of the victum. Not reporting rape when it occurred is not the fault of the victim. However, she leveled public accusations 10 years later when the only chance of evaluating the accusations is the word and unreliable memories of the two people involved. Now, even that isn't necessarily a bad thing. She should have that right, and people should come forward in case there are other silent, more recent, victims. Unfortunately, internet culture involves people thinking that they somehow have the ability and responsiblity to judge the truth of these accusations and then publicly voice that opinion. I wish fewer people on this thread were doing that. We need to have a safe, secure, victim friendly system for logging these types of accusations, investigating them, looking for corroboration, and then strict guidelines for publicizing these accusations even if the statue of limitations has expired. Public shaming works, the court of public opinion doesn't. The most honorable thing in that whole post is this: "You will not harass or threaten the woman making these claims. I am not looking for a mob of people carrying pitchforks on my behalf. If you harass her or go after her in any way, you are not a friend of mine, and you are not a friend of Cards Against Humanity."

tzs 12y ago

> I had a really brief relationship with this girl in college; her dorm room was next to mine, and after a few evenings staying up talking all night, we made out. We spent a few nights in each others’ rooms, but we never had sex and neither of us pressured the other into doing anything we weren’t comfortable with. After a few nights, I broke things off in the cowardly way that 19-year-old guys do, and I just stopped returning her calls and texts. I'm a bit confused by this part. I thought that the ignore calls and texts method of breakup only worked when those were essentially the only forms of communication you had with the person when not on a date. That method then works because with no more communication, they can no longer arrange dates. How do you make that method work when the other person is in the next room?

spiffytech 12y ago
I can think of several possibilities, but I'll leave their plausibility for the reader to judge: - She was also cowardly about how the relationship ended, and could never work up the nerve to confront him in person. In my own dorm doors were usually kept closed, so if you didn't seek someone out, you would rarely see them at all. - She knocked on his door, and he ignored her then too, but omitted it from the article, focusing on where the relationship didn't go rather than exhaustively detailing how it ended - The two people kept separate schedules that meant they often weren't home at the same time, save sleeping hours (or, if either had a flexible-schedule night shift job, as my own roommate did, not even then) - The relationship occurred near the end of a semester, and both parties moved out about the time it ended. They no longer ran into each other.

pikachu_is_cool 12y ago

I think my favorite part of the blog post is the last line. > If you see me this weekend at GaymerX, I could use a hug. Hook. Line. Sinker.

mkr-hn 12y ago
I don't get it. Why is this your favorite part, and where does "Hook. Line. Sinker." come in?

schrodingersCat 12y ago

The accuser/victim has responded to Max's post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8029353

learningram 12y ago
Cannot see it now. Can you post the text ?
- schrodingersCat 12y ago
  Here's a direct link to her blog post: http://humanityagainstassault.tumblr.com/post/91625206355/truth http://humanityagainstassault.tumblr.com/post/91625206355/tr... Let me know if you still cannot see the post and I'll paste in the text.